SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Coco they can't control your car. It is yours, they gave it to you, they can't dictate what you do with it. If it isn't already in your name, get it put in your name. Ensure you're paying for the insurance etc yourself so they can't cancel payments and leave you without.

I'm NC with mine, I don't want to go into all the details again though, sorry. My posts are available to read on the threads. I just refused to do what they wanted any more. They literally can't make you do anything at all. Start saying no to things, be busy etc.

I've always struggled to understand narcissistic supply and what it is. Today I discovered it's another name for external validation, which makes sense to me. The validation being that they're important to you in some way, which is why even negative attention counts, because it means you're thinking about and bothered by them.

Thank you - it helps to read this. I’m so scared of them which is ridiculous isn’t it?

I learned that they are simply nothing outside of relationships, they are not a complete developed human. They can only see themselves in the reactions of others, which is why they hate being ignored and hate being alone. They seem to pick a mask, my MIL is kind and charitable, my BIL is heroic and helpful and they get stuck trying to achieve this reflection. If someone doesn’t reflect this they are of no use if they do then it’s a match. But they are persistent, their mission is the mask. Some will destroy anyone that compromises it, mine simply ignore and devalue. I look with great pity now. They need all the time. I can’t imagine never being able to sit by yourself and just be fine with yourself.

I wonder when they get old and partners die and they can’t get the reflections so easily due to health maybe do they get more and more nasty?

They do believe me. My stepfather went into a nursing home and almost immediately my mother started almost a hate campaign against me. Shes always been nasty and cruel to and about me but this was next level. She contacted anyone she could including my childs school to tell them i was a bad mother/loose morals/alcoholic/junkie you name it but it was the straw that broke the camels back, it was then i cut her out totally. Her husband died in July and she doesnt seem to have noticed bar loving the attention she got around his death and at the funeral. Shes currently in Australia pretending to be grandma o the year with my sister and her child and one on the way yet did not contact my teen once since the funeral. Shes a nasty cow and everyone will eventually see it.

@IShouldNotCocothey can’t control what they do with the car or who you take where. If you can I would not accept anymore financial help from as it comes with strings attached and is used as a way to control you

Even if there is a massive backstory to why they don’t like your dp which i doubt there is They are trying to stop you from taking their grandchild’s father to hospital appointments for cancer treatment

Yes and no. We've been conditioned since birth to fear them. They didn't parent us with any type of parenting methods including common sense if they're not into studying methods, the rules us by fear instead. You can't shake off the habits of a lifetime overnight. Might help to remind yourself you're an autonomous adult now, you're safe, they're not in the house with you and can't control you. Say it out loud so you can hear it, it might help keep you in the present.

@IShouldNotCoco this is often the problem when we don’t go no contact. Our nervous system develops around our parents as we grow and the environment they create. We know they are not safe. They may not be as much of a danger to us as an adult as they were as a child but we have the nervous system of a small child as that is when it grew around. I know how you feel, it’s hard to shake off but the feeling is there for a reason. It’s telling you they are not safe. It’s telling you that how unsafe they were when you were small.

Do narcs invent made up competition with people? My BIL has said that there is competition with the neighbour but I work with the neighbour, they have never mentioned anything about anything remotely competitive. They have 2 small kids and just busy with them. Apparently they are always trying to outdo them with decs and stuff. My ex used to say people were looking at him funny when they weren’t. They seem to think people focus on them when most people probably don’t give a second thought. There Xmas decs last year were so ridiculous, it got out of hand. They seem to want people to notice them or need people to anyway possible.

It might be something narcs do. (On its own it’s more likely to be an MH issue; I have a friend with bipolar who gets like this when she’s in a bad way mentally.)

We know that narcs make everything about themselves, so I guess that would include thinking everyone is in competition with them. My late abusive F used to make everything about himself, particularly our education. He was less bothered about our futures than how it made him look to other people. ‘I’m ashamed of you’ was a favourite line of his.

My ex would run up to the people and verbally assault them. Most of them never had a clue what was going on. They take everything personally. I get the feeling they think they are much more important than they really are. Or perhaps they try and place themselves above people when most people aren’t even playing the game. The game of being the best. Most people just getting on with life, making friends, working or whatever. Since I’ve pulled away I can feel this in my partners family. It’s covertly extremely competitive and it was hard to pull away from as you get drawn in. It all looks so lovely and you just want to be part of something so lovely looking but it’s vile.

They absolutely are competitive, they think everything is a competition that they have to win at all costs. Most of the time nobody else knows about this competition as it is all in their own heads. They need to feel superior and they genuinely think that everything they do or say is the most important thing ever so when they see someone else do anything that they perceive to be something they can do better or that they should be getting the attention for then they create a competition in themselves. It is very strange really. I remember asking my mother to drive me to a car dealership one day to collect my new car. It was an alfa romeo but not in the least new but all the way there she berated me for it, made me feel shite for being able to buy it and kept repeating over and over 'its a status thing, its a status thing' and she was absolutely livid about this. It was years later I realised that it was because to her it really was a status thing and that because she thought that and said it aloud then it made it real. In my case it was the only car in that dealership that I could actually afford as it had been a repossessed car and had been in a crash but no no to her it clearly was a better car than she had and she was fuming that it was me that was going to own it instead of her because they feel that they are entitled to the best of everything. I cannot imagine being anything but happy for my child buying any kind of car having worked for it but nope my mother was absolutely foaming over it.

Actually looking back no matter what I did I was made feel not good enough purely because for her to win her non existent competitions she needed to belittle me and that is what made her happy, feeling like she was victorious. I mean she would sneer at me for having a clean home as if it was a bad thing but it is only because she herself lived or lives in chaos and could not understand my love of structure but obviously that in itself speaks volumes about me and my past because I was raised in her chaos so therefore I have nothing but calm peace and structure in my home. Clearly she would love it and is jealous of that but instead of changing herself she needed to put me down to feel superior.

That makes sense about the weird competition. Mum used to say, disparagingly, that she thought I was a good mother.

She felt this was because of my 'fancy education' and (due to my perceived laziness) I was able to read books on parenting.

I mean wtaf 😅 how can you look down at someone for being, in your opinion, a good parent? To your own grandchildren!

My education was not fancy, I went to whatever free school was nearest and moved every two years with Dad's job! I basically educated myself from the library, which is my learning style anyway.

I think that what was implied was that she was too busy being a homemaker to do fancy learning about methods of parenting? Or too busy living to do active learning? Meh, nutter.

She conveniently forgot that, despite being a housewife, she always had a cleaner. She was a great cook though, I'll give her that.

I parent alone and i have no qualms in telling people this despite her telling people I was 'an unmarried mother'. I was in my 30's having a child ffs not exactly 14 but despite the fact I had a job and career she likes to say that to people to bring me down a peg or two. She cannot be proud of her kids cos we show her up for everything she is not. At one point I said to her look I dont care that you think it is a bad thing I parent alone I am happy and proud of my life and with that she tells me she herself was a single parent to me and my siblings because, wait for it, my father went out to work all day so she parented us by herself from 9-5 monday to friday. We were in bloody school too. It does not matter stupid it sounds or how outrageous her lies the fact is she believes them and this is what makes her insider herself a winner and superior. Very bizarre and I have been studying it for years but every single narcissist is the exact same. There is a script just like a cheating spouse and they do not deviate.

They spend their whole life in a precarious situation, it is no wonder they eventually ruin all their relationships.

Apparently, one of the main emotions that narcs feel is jealousy. So I guess it would follow that they would invent ridiculous competition.

When my adult children were small, one of them (a toddler at the time) started calling her dad’s mum ‘Grandma Darling’ because this Grandma always called the children ‘darling’. My own mother took great offence to this. How unfair! How unjustified this was when she, the other grandparent ‘does much more for them’. Why should she, the other grandma be called ‘darling’?

The small mindedness knows no bounds.

Btw thank you for the messages re: my situation.

I am making steps towards cutting contact. This includes changing my 16 year old autistic daughter’s phone number so that my mum can no longer use her as a way to get at me and cause stress in the family. And I’ve stopped her going round for dinner because all of these things are a device to get at me, constantly.

All week, I have put up with messages from her threatening me with the police and how she’s going to tell them I’m bullying her. Ok. I have now found a way to edit WhatsApp so that only approved contacts can message me.

So basically a narc can’t have a relationship with a person unless they perceive themselves higher or that person is enmeshed enough that they take their wins as their own and a person can’t have a relationship with a narc unless they have weakened boundaries because this shit is not conducive to a healthy connection. So actually being ignored my a narc is a positive sign? They sense your boundaries are too strong and they won’t waste time.

Yeah but they will be smearing you in the background, probably always have. They see boundaries as a direct injury to them. They need control all of the time and if they cannot control you they will control how other people perceive you. Honestly the lies my mother has told about me but its the gobshites believing the stuff that baffle me more. I cannot imagine sitting gossiping about my own child and would not be happy any of my friends doing so about theirs. I mean one of the lies my mother told my aunt was that I said something about a property/ownership of property. The fact this conversation happened 20 years BEFORE I was born does not seem to have any bearing on it. My mother said I did it and that is the fact she continues with. It was about a home that was nothing to do with me either. Baffling.

Oh yeah I don’t doubt but I don’t care much about that. If people want to believe it then they can. I’m sorry your mum was so awful!

Gossiping is what they do consistently, they say awful things about anyone who is not directly in front of them.

But, here's the thing, normal people are very wary of gossips! They give neutral responses and limit contact.

I don't think people believe their shite. I think anyone with an ounce of sense thinks 'Why does she say such awful things about her own daughter? What a weird narc'.

They don't bother to confront head on because, not their circus 🤷🏼‍♂️ and the narc can't read the room or reflect upon how awful they look to everyone when they gossip.

Sometimes my kids try to vie to be my favourite and to get me to praise them over their brother. I don't like it and never, ever say anything bad about one (adult) child to the other.

I just always say I love both of you with all my heart, I couldn't love either of you more. I don't let them one up each other to me. I don't know why they do, I don't know if it's just normal.

I get accused of being jealous. I won’t lie, it would be nice to be in the middle of a loving family, to enjoy the days out and the meets but I can’t go. I can’t exist in this family, can’t be relaxed and authentic and vulnerable. I have not received enough of the special training. I value my relationships and my friends and myself. I don’t see people as competition, most people are just trying to survive life. It’s such a surface value way to live. So they can accuse me of being jealous if it makes them feel better, I’ll just stay with my friends and kids. Apparently many people are jealous of their closeness but it’s all smoke and mirrors.

Yes, years ago someone told me ‘people who bad mouth their children to random people are freaks’. And it’s true.