SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Im worried if I just block him he will get more intense or try and track me down.

I don't want to upset him either. But why? He left us when I was a very young child and wasn't seen again so I have been hurt about it since, so why worry about him.,

That top part basically says "I'll stay I touch with him because if I don't he might try to force me to stay in touch with him". Can you see the madness in that? Do what is right for you and block him, maybe get yourself a new number, move house if you have to. But don't try to appease him out of being an abuser. Every abuse victim everywhere can tell you this doesn't work and never has for anybody, anywhere, ever.

Regards the second part, it's not just that is it? There's the fact he's acting like a sexual predator towards you in the present. That's plenty enough reason to cut contact and metaphorically (or literally, if necessary) run screaming for the hills.

The "woe is me" act is calculated, to get you to feel sorry for him and draw you into a relationship with him. He probably deploys this tactic with every female target. I've met men like this. They know they're a bit shit and have no hope of charming you so they try to activate your mothering instinct instead (goodness knows why they think that would be a turn on and make you date them! Hoping for a pity shag, I guess).

He so obviously doesn't know any way to interact with a woman except sexually. Which means he thinks they're only good for one thing. Distasteful in itself, never mind applying that thought process to his own daughter 🤢. Probably a good thing he left whilst you were a child.

@SamAndAnnie

It's been so helpful to see my thoughts written down by someone else. I know he's really bad news. I feel like a woman he's almost trying to sweet talk, rather than his daughter which is definitely 😫
He mentioned me going and staying in his spare room the very first time we spoke.
It's blatantly obvious why he and my brother didn't have much contact back 15 or so years (when we were first in touch), my father wouldn't have known how to speak to him for one.

I've been on most of the other threads but I do name change a lot. I've been NC for 7 glorious years, although the teenagers sometimes manage to slip in a message via someone who isn't blocked, to let me know what an awful person I am. Mum is currently end stage care (although I do question this, as they've been dragging it out and love a medical drama) in a home, and I'm dreading the fall out.

I really struggle to understand why these people can’t see what they are?! How can you not know that you are self centred and not be able to understand the needs of your family. Do they see the needs but literally don’t care or do they not see the needs? How can you live in your own skin like this and not go to bed and feel bad.

They are devoid of empathy, totally empty on the inside and cannot see past their own needs and wants being met.

Empty of everything or just feelings for others? Because they must have happiness etc about themselves don’t they and achievement etc. They love you if you are useful? I don’t get what part is empty as they look complete and charming. They must have something inside. I’ve met malicious and yeah they nasty and empty but they aren’t all malicious ones. I struggle to understand how they don’t compute the consequences they have on people.

I think they are something like toddlers, they really don’t understand that other people are ‘real’. Although that might be unfair to toddlers who can be quite sweet and empathetic! I think narcissists really believe that other people are like props in a play, just peripheral characters who need to play the useful role assigned to them and not deviate from the script.
When I was a teenager and even into young adulthood I used to have so many long, really nasty, arguments with my mum where she would call me every nasty name and insult under the sun, and I would be really upset but would keep trying to communicate with her, because I just couldn’t understand why she was so incapable of hearing or acknowledging any of reasonable things I was trying to say to her, and why she would adopt wildly opposing positions from one week to the next or even from one hour to the next without noticing or bothering about it being a complete contradiction and not making any sense. I didn’t yet realise that she is truly incapable of thinking about anything at all in life except for her own wants and needs in a given moment.

Update on my situation if anyone was reading - I didn’t get in touch with my mum after she had surgery, and I’m happy with that decision. One sibling went to see her and check that she is ok - the only sibling who is still speaking to her. He reported back that she has the help she needs and is ok, and I said a big thank you to him for going over to see her. I’m maintaining the NC. I just couldn’t envisage any fruitful outcome from getting back in touch with her. She has also attacked my siblings and their families in a particularly awful way this year so I really can’t manage any more with my usual stance of putting on a fixed smile and making neutral noises.

That’s weird. Not seeing people as real. You’d think they’d get into all sorts of daily issues like paying and buying for things if nothing is real.

I did read they have to be the most important person in the room at all times. God knows how they twist things to make this become true. They must think so many lies about people. For example someone doesn’t like me because they are jealous when in reality you a twat. Someone who has something more than them, they must have obtained it in a bad way. I can see why they are money and power hungry because in our society this makes you instantly high up in a room.

@Strawberrypjs I didn’t mean thinking that other people are like ghosts or something, I think more like not understanding that they are ‘real’ in the sense of not understanding that they have real thoughts, points of view, emotions etc which are just as ‘real’ as one’s own. That they are separate people with real feelings and perspectives.

That’s just hard to comprehend. Not viewing someone as being different. Why would we all be the same when we all go through different things. Why would we all think they are amazing and the dogs bollocks, especially when they haven’t done anything to earn it. They are definitely something special. I do find the whole thing confusing to understand. Like how a parent can be so toxic and use their own children.

With regards to children being around narcs i really regret allowing my dsis to be so close to my dc i turned a blind eye to so many red flags rolled my eyes and justified her behaviour as it just being her she meant well she had their best interest at heart she didn’t she was manipulating them she was trying to turn them against me by belittling me to them when they were teenagers. Thankfully they are now both young adults now and we have a great relationship they have seen through her and despite me encouraging them to still have a relationship with her despite us being nc as she was a big part of their life they have chosen not to unfortunately and i respect their decision they also don’t want any relationship with dm their gm who was a massive part of their childhood they like I do in some ways feel she let them down by backing dsis which makes me sad as they look back on their time with dmil with such fond memories

I'm so sorry you went through this. 💐 I don't think they realise (or more likely they just don't care!) about how them starting on you impacts your mental and physical health when already going through a really hard time.

Re the money ignore the snide remarks but do try to pay back any remaining if you can if you haven't already. It is either used for two things, to buy favour with those who are starting to see through them or to keep a hold over you. The more they can keep you dependant on them the more they know you're always going to come back at some time and the cycle starts all over again.

Kids grow up and see it for themselves though just like yours have. My DCs have always been around and close to NM and it's been hard when I've clearly seen the manipulation tactics and they hadn't. They've both gone fully NC with NM now after she caused an explosive family row. I kept telling her that one day simply saying sorry after an episode wouldn't be enough. 🤷‍♀️

The fact that you respect your DCs decisions is enough. 💐

I’m so overwhelmed by all of this sometimes. I put an enormous effort - too much effort - into maintaining the relationship with my mum, because I believed it was the right thing to do and also in the past out of wanting to protect my siblings. Now that I can’t cope with her any more and the relationship is definitely ended I am overwhelmed with all the awful things which are true but my mum always said were lies and that I am a terrible person, a liar, it is all my fault etc . It’s so overwhelming. And having the relationship end feels like a failure after so much effort.

It is a failure but the failure is not yours, you simply cannot have any healthy relationship with a narc, no matter how hard you try, how much effort you but in. They aren’t’ looking for relationships. It’s only gone on so long because you have sacrificed and hurt and put up with it. It was doomed long before you were born and it is sad and terrible luck we were born to these people.

It’s not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist. It’s really best not to bother with them. The only people who bother with them are the now adult children of same who have been trained and or otherwise conditioned since childhood to put their parents needs first (and with their own dead last).

It seems the only people who really suffer are the children and the spouses. I guess this is the only intimate relationships a person has. People on the periphery in the family/non dependents seem to do ok with my narc.

I'm not sure narcissist really describes my mum, but other family members (especially those of my generation and 1/2 a generation up - those contemporary with her seem to put up with it or not bother with her) also find her hard work.
If I had to provide a working diagnosis, I think it's probably depression (nobody loves me, everybody hates me, think I'll go and eat worms) but unwillingness to do anything about it (what's the point of seeing the GP, everyone genuinely does hate me [especially you drspouse] and the GP can't change that, medication won't change it, what's the point in talking to someone about it).

If she genuinely engaged with, for example, CBT, she might be more willing to make allowances - "all" your friends didn't do something without you because they hate you, two of them did and they weren't thinking of you at the time. You won't die old and lonely (unless you want to!), people do care about you. Your DD is not rude and horrible to you - she talks politely to you and asks you not to interrupt, but if she asks you to do something she is not shouting at you, nor is she being horrible to you, she just needs to parent her children and run her house so it works for her, not you.

It's just taken quite a while to get to the point where I can see that she acts like this to everyone - she just has to be a bit politer to her friends as they will definitely not put up with rudeness.

I will see my parents for the first time in two years in a few months. It's my 2nd year of NC. I will see them at my niece's birthday party. I promised her I will book flights and come. I knew I wanted to for the sake of my niece and our relationship but I panicked when I said yes. I don't know how to behave. I have changed and finally live in peace and am loosing more of my fear of everyone and everything.

I'm a totally different person who can finally just be and isn't editing herself, her beliefs and her words anymore to play their game. I'm starting to believe that I am quite nice and not the horrible trouble maker who sits at home and doesn't dare talk, has no confidence and is feeling under surveillance 24/7 by her narc mother and enabling father. I'm no longer scared to put a foot wrong. I make mistakes and I can apologise and then do better. I can just walk away if someone can't accept my imperfections. Or is trying to control and dominate. I'm starting to relax when I get a whiff of criticism from someone and am not longer fighting for my life when I do. We can talk this through. I can accept their experience and reflect. I'm finally getting a sense of who I actually am. I never knew and this is sad. My mother hijacked my soul and I'm claiming everything back.

Oh that’s really going into the dragons den.

I don't know why I worry. These people no longer matter to me. After the trip I will return home and live my life. I am an adult and can do what I want. I can roll my eyes if I want to and there is nothing they can do about it. They will use a mix of love bombing and guilt tripping. I have come to a place where I feel compassion for their story. And I don't 100 percent like it. They were abused children and never made it. Unlike myself. I made it. I get to live my life and be myself.

I'm SO happy I can finally live. That I can sleep. That I know how to self regulate. That nobody can tell me what to do. That I am not stuck in a relationship like theirs. That I am free in my own home and not hostage to a narcissist.

It’s just not nice to be in the same space with people who aren’t nice. I don’t think you can get your mind and body to be happy with it as it’s not nice. I can sit in the room with people I don’t like but you still know deep down and still feel relief when it’s over. I’d definitely worry because even though it’s nice to show support you are still surrounded by the rest, no one likes to be outnumbered, it’s nice to have a few friends around you so that you feel safety because deep down at the end of the day we know these aren’t safe.

@Twatalert can you take a friend with you to the party?