SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Oh my we just watched a sad film about a dog trying to get home. The dog spoke of the invisible leach and this leach guiding him home and the leach was in fact love. I could have balled my eyes out. I don’t have this sense of home, I couldn’t wait to leave home and was stupid getting into a terrible marriage trying to avoid going home. I feel guilty about feeling this way about my parents. They weren’t terrible but for some reason I did not want to be home. I still don’t enjoy standing in my home, it’s a source of anxiety and not warmth. Sometimes I dislike this season for this very feeling that it promotes that I don’t have.

I get it @Strawberrypjs, agree there is a lot of advertising this season that shows big, happy families. Love, like families, comes in all sorts of shapes. Home should be a place of safety, where you 'seen' and valued. Don't feel guilty.

Thanks for your reply, and the reality check. And nice to not be alone in having a complicated past / family situation.

I think it’s important to remember that there is no relationship with a narc. They try to cause conflict within the relationships we have, they try and turn people against each other. They are really best to be kept at a very long arms length as they can be so covert we miss what they are doing.

Well I have been low contact with most of my family except my younger DS for about a year. Was called on Thursday night and told ‘d’m was in hospice and dying. I went to see her Friday and she chatted to me as if all fine - other relatives not there.I feel at peace now I have seen her and strangely emotionless. DS on the way back to the country (lives abroad) and will be at mine tomorrow night - staying with us.
older DS is golden child - and trying to reach out using updates on ‘d’m.
not sure what I’m asking - just wondering how you have coped if you have been through similar. I don’t want to see her (m) again or rest of family which could be tricky. Thanks x

I don't think anyone can advise you, it's what you are comfortable with. Some people go entirely no contact and it suits them, other people feel they can't, out of duty. I was one of those. But no feelings when my mother died, apart from relief. I have no siblings so didn't have that problem, but I don't see why you shouldn't maintain as low contact with the difficult ones as you want.

Thanks for your reply. My younger DS is nearly here so I will go with her if she wants me too. I feel at peace and only relief. X

Yes, pretty much. She would need to grow up, and I don't think she can. She told me a while ago that she had some therapy after her husband died to help her cope and the therapist told her she needed therapy to unpick her relationship with my father and she was absolutely not doing that. I remember thinking I wish you would, you might effing well learn something from it, but I didn't say it out loud.

The funny thing is, her husband once told me that the thought that I might have been harmed by growing up with abuse and violence was an enormous source of guilt and stress for her. I've begun to realise recently that this is the elephant in the room. She couldn't cope with it and therefore I was expected to pretend I wasn't harmed. So I did. I even convinced myself I was fine when I was clearly a malfunctioning lunatic.

I think she told herself if I was being harmed she was leave because that's what a good mother would do and then convinced herself I was fine so she didn't have to. I even believed myself that I was fine when I was clearly a malfunctioning lunatic.

That said, the problem with her now isn't the childhood, it's the fact that she's been horrible to me in adulthood. I could accept the childhood shit was a symptom of the situation she was in. But she doesn't have that excuse any more. It's just how she is.

@Twatalert wanted to add, I am so sorry that you felt the way you did as a teen and it was ignored. It's not right. It's an undeniable failure to parent.

The way I see it is that some people are cruel, immature, selfish, manipulative, incompetent, or bullying, and some of them become parents. We've had the misfortune to be their children. We can still make a decent life for ourselves in spite of it, but dear me, it is hard work sometimes.

The defensive mechanics that are in place will not allow them to grow. They are there for a good reason and they are doing a perfectly brilliant job at protecting her. Fuck everyone else.

I have a friend in the second of 2 abusive relationships and she knows that he is. But she is too ashamed to allow it to be true so she minimises it, lets him off all the time. Admitting that she has made another mistake is too much for her at the moment. But all the well the children are witnessing this. Shame is a massive driving force. She is worried what everyone will think of her.

I think shame was a massive motivator for my mother too. It's definitely been a problem for me but I am working on it.

The problem with ignoring it so you won't have to deal with feeling bad about making poor choices is that it will one day blow up in your face.

And another problem is whilst they are busy ignoring and minimising it there are other people being damaged. My friends kids are hearing the arguments, they step in the
middle sometimes. It’s not ok.

Its the cycle all over again.

Yep. And once the kids are adults, she faces three things - the kid that won't talk to her any more because she refused to protect them, the kid that bullies her (knowing full well they can do so with impunity because she won't do anything about it) and the kid who walks straight into an abusive relationship because it's familiar and they don't know how to function in a healthy relationship. There are all three in my family. I would also bet on chronic illness popping up somewhere too.

Plus in my experience people outside the family know, or at least strongly suspect, that something isn't right. After my parents separated I found out just how many people knew but had never said anything.

I never really lived with my mother's second husband because I had left home by then but I know that what she tells everyone was her grand romance involved heavy drinking (both of them) and cheating (him). She prefers his son to her own kids.

It is sad as her parents relationship was abusive so she is perfectly turned for abuse,
it’s all she knows.

I left my exh when my daughter was 2 with £150 and a will. I wasn’t going to let this be her model for life.

I am having a bit of a moment 2 not close friends have passed away week I am beginning to think I am the grim reaper as we have had so many deaths over the last few years one I went to school with so my age 48 I had her on social media but probably haven’t seen her since school her sister posted on social media my dsis doesn’t know or care if I am dead or alive which makes me sad as I have been nothing but kind and supportive of her but that’s her choice and is on her

my lovely colleague in work step dad has cancer and is end of life they have just been out for a Christmas meal as he is unlikely to live til Christmas she isn’t ready for him to go he is 75 and I feel guilty for secretly wishing dm to pass away peacefully at 85 as it will bring me closure.

I am a bit wound up / fed up tonight dh works permanent nights so comes home mid morning and drives past dm care home and everyday dsis car is there i have no idea if she is still working or not as if she was she should be in work then she worked a 9-5 job it’s non of my business really but she probably doesn’t need to work as she has dm state pension private pension and the rental income from the house plus her own pip money

I have remembered dm set up a savings account for both my dc. Dd got hers it was automatically transferred to her name when she turned 18 ds has never had his as he turned 18 after all this kicked off and poa was registered with the same bank so dsis has probably had that as well I don’t know why that has angered or upset me she’s thrown me her only dsis under a bus and therefore her only niece and nephew as my inheritance would of either filtered to them or we had planned to gift them house deposits it’s only about £1k

I am seriously considering reporting her to the police but will probably get nowhere and it’s my mental health that suffers

I’d be inclined to just let the whole thing go, money and all. You are going to drag yourself into the toxic mud with the whole situation. Many many years go by whilst we chew on it and the years can end up miserable. If you don’t need it I’d let it all go. I’d stop looking for her car, stop wondering. Your children have lost nothing at all. It’s all out of your control but you know the truth and that’s enough. Enjoy your life without this.

I know exactly how you feel - my mother passed yesterday at 89 and I only feel relief. People keep asking am I ok - and I really am x

My mum has emailed DD to ask what she wants for Christmas and told her what she's getting her, with DD asking her for money to get it (of course). She's basically sent my mum her whole Christmas list. My mum has not contacted DS AFAIK.

I don't believe my mum has NPD but she is unable to accept that she can't just do what she wants (babying DD) without acknowledging DS or taking my feelings into account. In this instance it is disruptive as well because obviously we have been asked for these things too.

I think I will have to ask DH to tell her not to do this and/or block my DM from DD email. She called DD (I knew this as DH sees her phone log) and DD didn't answer (I think she called when DD was on her way to/from school, but DD also finds my mum hard on the phone as she doesn't know when to stop talking.

That smirk is well known and researched in psychology. It’s known as ‘Duper’s Delight’ and is an unconscious micro expression / aggression sometimes seen also with lip biting or crinkly smiling eyes. It’s thought to derive from the moment of pleasure when the dopamine hits amd is a red flag for a highly manipulative person.

drspouse

re your comment:
"I don't believe my mum has NPD but she is unable to accept that she can't just do what she wants (babying DD) without acknowledging DS or taking my feelings into account. In this instance it is disruptive as well because obviously we have been asked for these things too".

Why do you not thin she has NPD?. I would assume your mother is narcissistic here no matter how unpalatable it is to you. It is a form of personality disorder and its not your fault she is the ways she is.

How old are DS and DD?. Your mother is using DD here as the weak link in the chain. I would certainly block your mother's access to DDs email account and in fact none of you should have anything to do with her going forward. Your mother is also wrecking their sibling relationship under your very nose because she sees your DD as golden whilst your DS and you are scapegoated. He likely knows that his nan wrote to his sister whilst he was ignored.

Send your mother one email telling her to no longer contact any members of your own family then block her access. She was likely not a good parent to you when you were growing up and it's the same deal for the kids now.

Do not use your DH as some sort of buffer here; protect your own family from such malign influences. No longer let this woman harm your family like this.

My DS has no idea that my mum wrote to DD, DD didn't tell me so she wouldn't tell DS.

My mum is not into drama, she thinks the world hates her, which comes and goes at different levels and it seems linked to depression which she refuses to do anything about. So she thinks I hate her, that my DS is horrible to her on purpose, my DF (they are no longer married but are friendly). We all hate her but her reaction is to be rude and talk negatively about us but she doesn't try to make herself look good in the way that I understand is common in NPD. She cuts people off and shuts down rather than making a big drama out of it. She's always done this with e.g. social groups, she doesn't try to get one friend on side, she just stops going.

DH says he has no desire to talk to my mum about this either. He's forwarding all emails from her to us now and we'll see what my dad says about what she's told him DD wants and probably also check what he brings here from my mum.
If he hasn't got a present from my mum to DS we might keep her present back, but as regards thank yous they usually write a short post card so there's no impassioned phone calls.