SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I don’t think that there will be any benefit to you in meeting this aunt. She won’t have changed or be able to give you any validation/support. If anything I would be very suspicious of her motives in wanting to meet up with you.
As others have said I’d suggest you ignore the calls and messages and block her.

Do not respond to your aunt. A response from you opens a line of communication which should remain closed.

And why does she want to meet up now, what is in this for her?.

@Twatalert i hear ya. My dads side of the family when i was younger i did fit in but once my parents separated i felt a disconnect and I thought for ages it was because of that reason but they kept in touch with my siblings and i never realised that was because my mother by then had started blaming me on things that I could not possibly have done and I was her scapegoat child and that is why I stopped getting invited to things etc. This was my dads side note! Not only did I stop getting invited to things I was actually uninvited to my cousins wedding and I thought me and she were very close but allegedly i said something bad about my aunt (never once did) and that was that. Actually I have residual anger towards my father and siblings for going to this wedding and leaving me the only one not going. They should have stuck up for me but did not, no loyalty at all and then of course when it came out that I did not say anything I got a vague apology but the damage was done and then I got this reputation very unfairly of being a liar, gossip etc in the family so the next time someone said something it was believed and now none of them talk to me. I didnt attend my brothers wedding because I could not walk into a room with them all there and know how they felt about me. I got physically sick over those people, mentally it nearly killed me off too. I wouldnt mind I have audhd and I hate gossiping, lying and nastiness so it really does get to me that I was used as the family sacrificial lamb as I never gossip about people and I have a very strong sense of justice so I do not lie.

Has anyone come to terms with the siblings role in this.

I've lurked on this thread for a while without posting

My mum Was highly abusive with her fists. Also emotionally. She played my sister and I off against each other and my sister and I have pretty much no relationship.

My sister also had a very cruel streak as a child. She still does. My sister, even from a very young age, enjoyed watching people get in trouble and suffering consequences for behaviour.That was nothing out of the ordinary for young children being naughty.

One thing I can't get my head around is that my sister wouldn't support me. Or agree to support each other. I tried to get us to collaborate together to keep things hidden from mum. So we wouldn't get in trouble. A lot of the time mum wouldn't found out about anything we did at school or in our bedrooms if one of us hadnt told her.

My sister whenever she saw the slightest thing Id done that mum wouldn't like she would walk straight to her and tell her immediately. It was silly staff like putting play doh on the ceiling of my bedroom. It's non toxic and it doesn't stain. I was just doing it for a joke and it looked funny and I was surprised it stayed stuck. She kept going to tell mum and reporting back to me that mum said I had to stop it.

I didn't think there was anything wrong with it because there was no harm and it wasn't staining. My sister reported me to mum again and mum finally belted upstairs, punched me round ahead a few times and screamed in my face stop it. And then just as soon a stormed back out again.

My sister did this constantly. She saw something mum wouldn't like she immediately reported it to her, and she knew I would get the living daylights beaten out of me. My sister seemed to enjoy it.

I have to say my sister's cruel street has continued into adulthood and it has caused her considerable problems in relationships and with her own children.

I'm not one for blaming her behaviour on our mother. Because that's a cop out. I was raised in the same environment, and i'm not like that. I didn't like to see her getting beaten up when we were primary school children, in fact it terrified me.

My sister and I have no relationship as a violent. Cruel behaviour has continued all her life. But how do you come to terms with the fact that you're sister?At an age where she was old enough to understand was happy to report you to your mother knowing you'd get beaten and apparently quite happy with that.

I just think that trauma affects us in different ways, depending on personality, dna, different brain wiring. She may have just developed this as a control mechanism, it felt safe to have a sense of control in this way for her. I know people develop all sorts of behaviour in the hope to gain some control, self harm, food issues, alcohol etc etc. All I can say is that your sister was deeply affected by your upbringing. It’s obviously hindered the growth of her empathy.

Maybe but she was older than me. She used to say after I'd had a severe slapping or punching see.Serves you right you shouldn't have done it. If she was absolutely certain that all of this was deserved for almost nothing that I had done wrong.

My sister didn't continue being a goody two shoes reporting back to mummy. In fact, when she was a teenager of about seventeen, she really went off the rails. Staying out drinking all night having sex with grown men in our sixth form, college who actually had wives at home.

I reported every last bit of it, that I knew about back to our mother and she got away with nothing. It was payback for what she did to me.As a child and also I was sixteen at the time, and I could see that her behaviour was dangerous. Adult really did need to know where she was and what she was doing.

I'm glad I had the response to trauma the I did rather than hers. I just wanted a way out of the family. I did that by getting a degree getting a decent career behind me and earning good money. We were really quite poor. My sister just relied on man to pay her way and got married and had a child and then destroyed her marriage by being violent to her husband whilst blaming him for her violence and saying it served him right. Exactly what she said to me when I was a child.And being hit I deserved it.

It's just something I can't get my head around. Even the children of fred and rose West hardest system for protecting each other from their father and mother. Never leaving one alone with parent and always banding together in a trio.

So it doesn't necessarily follow that severe abuse makes you an abuser. The abuseThe west children suffered at their parents hands worse than anything we experienced her

She had time before you to have taken the beating and when you came along perhaps she saw it as a respite. If the eyes are onto you they are off her. I wouldn’t try and understand it too much. Abuse makes a mess out of the sense of things, people behave in various ways for various reasons. It wasn’t because you didn’t deserve the protection of your sister. The abuse distorted her in some way. Some people go one way some go another. They triangulate, whisper in the ears, plant seeds and Poisson.

Maybe, but she was only a year older than me literally.

She didn't have a good beating when I wasn't around because we were virtually the same age. It was always both of us.

Any event?She's a cruel nasty person and i've got absolutely no relationship with her.Anymore, and nor do I want to. Regardless of the reason for why she does what she does.I don't care.I don't have to subject myself to it.Maybe thats selfish.

It's been, helpful to hear your perspective.Thank you.

Trauma creates narcs as much as it creates highly empathetic people. It’s just what it does. Something created your mum. Healthy people with healthy upbringings don’t. Your sister is a product of trauma.

She was also physically abusive to me and childhood.And adolescents and mid teens, so I had it from both of them.

My sister would slap me punch me.Round the head, twist my fingers up scratch my legs.When I was lying in bed asleep and vulnerable and not able to fight back.

Her husband divorced her because of her abuse. Does come a time when you have to stop blaming mummy.

As I said, I struggle with her and I just can't get my head around it .

She is too far gone. Stay away to protect yourself. It is extremely sad.

I sometimes find it so hard to comprehend just the level of damage having a matriarchal narc at the head of the family does. All the directions of travel amongst family of attention and time and thinking is based on their say so. All the damaged bonds and the should have beens. One person can covertly cause this much damage to a family. They really are people to stay away from. And all the time they sat in the middle, no care, no thought whatsoever.

I’ve been NC with my mum for 4 years and actually moved across the country in the process. I’ve had to report her to the police for harassment and she took me to court for access to my children (which she lost). She is personality disordered and alcohol dependent. She and my dad divorced when I was 7 and it has been the main focus of her life ever since, I am now 36. She is now 66 and I am wondering more about what happens in the long term.

My question is, what happens when she becomes unwell or dies? Has anyone else not supported care needs or not gone to the funeral? I will 100% be out of her will, even she even has any money left but will I be responsible for her possessions and clearing her home? How does it all work and how do you manage these feelings?

I also have an older brother who has been NC with her for a year

If I was your aunt, Twat, I'd have sent one message and it would have said
"hi can you let me know is this still the correct number for Twat please? It's Aunty, I'm thinking of visiting your country and wondered if you'd like to meet up while I'm there? No worries if not."
Then I'd have waited for a reply, even if it came back saying "sorry wrong number".

What I wouldn't have done is send lots of messages saying I wanted to pump you for information and use you as a tour guide, sounding vaguely stalkerish by announcing that out of all the available locations I'm coming to your town whether you like it or not, acting as if I was entitled to a reply and eventually reproaching you for not giving me one.

So on that basis, I'd steer clear. She's not displaying respect for you.

Doubts nobody can be forced to become someone else's carer and nobody is responsible for another adult unless they want to be.

If she has a will then there's different rules to if she doesn't have a will. Without a will there's rules about who inherits and in what percent. It goes by value of the estate (her total possessions and money) not by item. With a will it goes by what's written on there. So no, if you haven't inherited her possessions you're not responsible for them. If you have inherited them and don't want them, you can decline the inheritance. If nobody is specified to inherit the house contents at all (eg if nobody is named and nobody inherited "everything") and her house is rented, it befalls the landlord to sort out the clearance of it, I'm unsure whether they could charge the estate but I suspect not, going to court is long and hassling. If the house is owned, it befalls the inheritor to clear it or the executor, if not the inheritor, can have it cleared and take the money from the estate to pay for it. Of course if there's no money, just the house and if the inheritor doesn't want the house sold to pay for the clearance then they either pay for it themselves or they clear it themselves, even if they didn't specifically inherit the contents. If nobody wants to be executor (someone named can give it up if they wish) a solicitor can be appointed who will charge a few which they'll take from the estate before distributing the remainder to the inheritors. If there's not enough money/assets in the estate, they'll expect whoever appointed them to cover their bill. It is unclear whether you are NC with your brother or not, but it doesn't sound like an informal sitting around of siblings, dividing up what you each take from the house, is going to be happening.

If nobody is supporting care needs and there are some, a social worker will be allocated (usually when some disaster happens and the person ends up in hospital) and they will carry out an assessment of care needs. They don't have to meet needs that are already being met by someone else, so if you don't want to be carer then don't be carer. It's not much use being carer then saying you don't want to be, but also that you don't want relative left without care. You can't have your cake and eat it and until there are unmet needs social services can't act. Likewise if you are happily being carer, but don't want to take on more than you're already doing - you have to stand firm, harden your heart and simply refuse, regardless of the consequences for relative. You don't have to pay for relatives care. It's means tested, the local authority will carry out that assessment, pay for whatever is needed themselves and then bill relative for anything they need to pay for. The social worker will deal with relatives finances if family aren't. You/they would only pay, if you wanted to, for optional extras that are nice to have but not essential and which social services therefore wouldn't provide. If she goes into a care home social services will arrange for the house to be cleared and sold and bill her for all charges (which she'll pay from the proceeds of the sale of the house). Care homes/carers at home doesn't take all the assets, the person is allowed approx £20k that isn't included in available funds when means testing takes place. She can spend this on whatever she likes but if she doesn't spend it then you and your brother may inherit approx £10k each, unless she has a will naming other inheritor(s).

I have a friend who feels strongly about funerals and knew my relative so I will go to the funeral with them when the time comes, but I live miles away like you and if this friend is deceased or incapacitated then I won't be going for that reason. I'll have to deal with it emotionally because I won't have a choice.

I won't be getting involved with care in any way, other than advisory if asked. I'm fine with that, happy to support other family members and at peace with my decision because I also needed care, as all children do and I largely didn't get it, I got some abuse thrown in with the neglect. I feel no guilt about staying away and refusing to provide care. I'm not money grubbing anyway so I'm definitely not upending my own life to go providing care to toxic people just so I can inherit.

Doubts nobody can be forced to become someone else's carer and nobody is responsible for another adult unless they want to be

True in theory, but my sister tried to do that to me when our mother was dying.

Yes, I should have said my mother is actually dead. Wows, she was dying my sister tried to force me to take her home and provide full time care despite it meaning, I would have to give up my job and be unable to work and where would that leave me?

I got subjected to abuse and harassment. My sister barely works and refused to provide any care herself.

It's easy to say you can't be forced.I couldn't be forced, but it made life extremely unpleasant to have someone tryand impose this on me.

My sister joined forces with the n h s staff who of course wanted to discharge my mother as cheaply as possible to my care. The amount of pressure they can put on you is intolerable.

@SamAndAnnie she meant she was trying to send many messages and they didn't work. Imagine a very tech illiterate person, who can just about work a phone and does not know how to input country codes etc. I only received one message. Definitely not stalkerish.

I still haven't made up my mind. I mean I know I probably won't go, but I will respond to her. I'm not going to just ignore. I need to be able to tell people what I want or don't want. And unless I start doing it in these situations I will always have this issue.

This is so helpful, thank you. Yes, DB and I are in contact, he was over last weekend. He and I have a great friendship.

I feel much better informed and more at peace after what you said about needing care as a child. That resonated with me, thank you.

There is no other family, her entire family are NC and gradually became so throughout our childhood.

@OneGreyWhale this behaviour of seeing others in pain and reporting you to your mother when she knew what would be the consequences seems one step up from narcissism for me. Especially since she then became a violent wife.

In families like yours there would have been no point in two people taking on the same role. It might sound totally bizarre, but on some level she might have felt her actions of reporting you might be looked at favourably by your mother. You both wanted love and approval but ended up coping in different ways.

I agree there is no excuse now that you are both adults. Your sister is fully responsible for her behaviour today.

If it helps it is extremely common for siblings to be pitted against one another in such families. I cannot understand why my brother is on the wrong side of right either. My therapist tried to explain to me that the behaviour got normalised for him and therefore he cannot see an issue. I struggle here because I have always seen what's up and you have to be a fucking moron to not see anything at all. Another word for moron is denial. I understand denial but I cannot quite get my head around how it seems to work for literally anything for them.

@Twatalert

I agree with everything you've said. My sister sounds like your brother now in that she doesn't see a problem with her abusive behaviour.

She's surprised when her husband left her because of it. In fact, she thought he brought it on himself and he deserved it. I'm sure my ex brother in law was no angel. Relationship issues are never black and white.But hitting is - you just don't do it in a relationship, no matter what your partner has said or done to you. She was of the views that he ought to apologise to her for his behaviour after she'd been violent. She also was cheating on him as well as being violent, and he knew by that. But in her mind, he should apologise to her.

She doesn't understand why her husband divorced her for infidelity and violence. She doesn't understand why I cut her off after our mother had died. She can't see how vile her behaviour is.

I can't get my head around.Why she can't see it?And why should want to continue these relationships with this messed up dynamic. But obviously as you say it's become normalised to her.

To me it's so obvious it can be seen from space but she thinks she's normal.

It is a step up from narcissism as all the way through childhood she reported me to mum knowing I'd get battered and screamed at. She was entirely happy and comfortable for me to take that from our mother.

It's a hard things to come comprehend, but i'm glad you annoy grew up, and we're able to see how messed up the dynamic was rather than become that way ourselves.

Very little empathy and no self awareness, violent with infidelity she could be bordering on sociopathy with such little care.

More, I could say a lot more, but I think you're right. I wouldn't be surprised if she was diagnosed with a personality disorder of some kind.

She's also extremely insecure and can't be happy unless she has a man. Once you get a man, she does nothing but complain about them. And then when they leave, she spends all of her emotional energy about why they left and what they did to her.And how she can get them back.

It's just so frustrating that her entire life revolves around this dynamic, where she is never happy with any man. She's ever had, and then when they leave goes crazy and wants them back while still blaming them for everything that went wrong.

She forces herself on people, and she forces her way into people's lives. Whereas when most people have a fallout or a breakup, they have the emotional intelligence and awareness to know that you just back away slowly and don't make things worse. In the case of a breakup, just hold your head up high and move on.

She literally begs men to take her back and sends them massive paragraphs. She thinks all of this behaviour as normal too. Putting it all down here.I'm actually really glad she's out of my life.She is so exhausting but I feel sorry for her children.

Perhaps she had some more of your mums genetics and was pre disposed to be like this. I do believe that there are all sorts of personalities in babies, really hard and tough ones but given the right nurturing turn out ok. I suspect your sister was like a perfect storm, tough genetics and terrible nurturing. It’s sad for her but you have been more fortunate.

Oh shit she has kids. Oh my those poor kids. The push pull of love sounds like someone I know. She is awful in relationships. She pushes her man away and they revels in the 100’s of phone calls he does in return begging. I think she has BPD

Yes she does. Luckily 50/50 with their dad so they have some normality.

She has never hit her children. But she is an awful parent in other ways. No boundaries and let's them do what they want. Can't be bothered to parent.

She has no filter in front of her children and says whatever she wants just like our mother. One thing that really concerned me is she said she wished she didn't have kids. She struggled to adapt. Then when she started cheating she realised her affair partner didnt want to raise more kids. His were older and it was an impediment to getting this guy.

She actually said in front of her aware children (every time I saw her) that I was better suited to motherhood and family life and she contemplated leaving and if it would be best for me to take on her family and home life. 🤯

Had she asked her husband if he wanted to swap for me?! More to the point I said to her that she hates her home life and it makes her miserable but she thinks it's good enough for me. She's always viewed me that way.

Mum used to play us against each other and she would side with one of us for long periods and gang up against the other. Im just so happy all of this messed up dynamic is over. But I still ruminate.