AIBU to think someone should have helped my mum a long time ago, and to feel hard done by that I don’t have a close, supportive mum in my life?

[motherlandtrouble]

Just wanting to vent, I think, sorry.

My mum has always been ‘difficult’. Our childhood was characterised by her volatile moods - she’d either be shouting at us or giving us the silent treatment from a very young age. My earliest memory is of sitting on the stairs crying for her ‘mummy mummy mummy’ until I felt physically sick, and her completely blanking me as though I didn’t exist. She had weird boundaries, would walk in on us changing and comment on our bodies, go through our possessions, etc. She would make strange comments about my dad’s ex-girlfriends (they married at 23 so there can’t have been many), or when the phone rang, she’d tell us it would be to say my dad had been in an accident.

When I got older, her behaviour got worse. I tried to confide in her e.g. re. going on the pill at 17, which made her go absolutely crazy at me screaming ‘don’t get pregnant’, or when I was having a hard time on a study abroad placement (she’d only let me call home if it was a ‘good’ phonecall). She wanted to put a tracker on my phone to see where I was at all times, wanted a copy of my uni timetable etc. She’d stop talking to me if I spent (my own) money on things she didn’t deem appropriate (e.g. she ‘didn’t believe I was that blind’ when I got contact lenses in my early 20s).

When I met DH and started spending time with his family, she really went off the rails. I suggested she got some counselling, and she emailed apparently on her counsellor’s advice to tell me that she might walk in front of a lorry tomorrow and then I’d be sorry I hadn’t seen her more often. When I was pregnant, she went crying to other family members that I hadn’t shared my scan dates with her (which wasn’t true) and told me she was going to ‘hijack’ my baby from nursery.

She’s always been like this, but every so often, I feel sad that I won’t ever have a supportive, kind mum who I actually want to spend time with and who I can go to for advice or comfort. She’s never been that mum and I don’t actually think that she can be. I have my own child now and it’s becoming even more apparent to me that I’m missing that key support in my life.

I don’t let her be alone with my DS but she manages to be weird even when accompanied. She’s very invested in being a kind of ‘grandma of the year’ in competition with my MIL (who probably pays her absolutely no mind whatsoever and doesn’t know they’re in this competition), bringing presents and being completely OTT affectionate with DS which turns my stomach, if I’m honest. But she also makes odd or hurtful comments constantly, repeatedly calling me ‘horrible mummy’ to DS when I wiped his nose, or shouting ‘complete failure!!’ at him when he was learning to crawl.

I actually don’t think she’s capable of getting better now because she’s been this way for 60 years and seems to show no awareness of her behaviour. I wish somebody had helped her a long time ago (my dad? Her parents?), but it doesn’t seem like anyone did. My dad is very invested in not noticing her behaviour, or pretending everything is OK. If I try to bring up my mum’s behaviour with him, I’m being too sensitive or she doesn’t mean it or ‘you know what she’s like’ etc etc.

Now that I’m a mum myself, I feel very lonely without a supportive mum of my own, and I feel as though I’m second guessing my own parenting of DS because I’m trying always to not be my mum and to be a loving, empathetic and caring mum to him (so the ‘horrible mummy’ comment was really hurtful, especially because I grew up terrified of her).

There’s also the profound damage that her behaviour did to us psychologically and emotionally. I have terrible self esteem, have had some damaging relationships, made a lot of life choices just to try and please her (which of course never did). I’m still feeling the repercussions of her behaviour now in my 30s, and I’m constantly terrified of turning into her. I’ve started to study child psychology to understand what was done to us but also to try and be the best mum I can to my DS, as well as having a lot of counselling on and off over the years. But I think the kind of core wound never goes away, or it gets reopened every time I have to see her, which is much more often than I’d like.

I’m not really sure what I’m looking for from this post, I think I just wanted to vent about it all, sorry. Thank you if you’ve got to the end of this!

Ha yes I could not use tampons until I was a married woman and I also have brothers and she used to rip the ladies underwear section out of the catalogues ( was early 80s Kay’s catalogue was very popular) so they could not look at the bras !!

She actually sounds quite horrific. Other people are being manipulated by her or are scared so they just try to keep the peace. I’d go no contact, honestly, as she’s just going to get worse with age. You deserve to be free of her. Concentrate on your own family now and also seek out some counselling so you can try to make sense of what’s happening/happened. It will also make you see that you are actually a really strong and amazing person who has broken the family mould.

I can sympathise op, my mum was also undiagnosed with god knows what but regardless ruined my childhood and mental health. I remember being really little and if my dad was out she’d lay on the hallway floor and pretend to be dead, it used to terrify my younger brother.
My son is in his early twenties now but when he was 17 he refused to visit her anymore, he then let rip at me and said… Why the fuck does everyone in this family ignore her shit, I love you mum but I don’t understand why you put up with it, he had a point. I went low contact and then no contact, it’s been 4 years now and it’s really helped, I know people hate this phrase but I think there’s really something in a acknowledging your inner child (sorry) and accepting that you deserve better.
At the end of the day we live in a country with a free healthcare system, the wait might be long but therapy is available on the nhs. It should have been them, visiting doctors and counsellors trying to figure out what was wrong, not there children 40 years later.

The costume drama thing is exactly the kind of thing my mother would do. And she also wouldn’t buy me sanitary products. Does anyone know what personality disorder these women have? I’d love to know.

@DameSylvieKrinI’d love to know too.

What?! The woman's extremely abusive and cruel. What kind of mother ignores her crying child calling out for her, tells her children their father has been in a car accident just to scare them and shouts complete failure at a crawling baby? Amongst other abuses. Op, I wouldn't let your ds near her and I think you'd be better off going nc.

It must be an actual disorder- it's too many to be a coincidence surely! I'd love to know as well.

Mine was even annoyed with me for having blood on the sheets in the maternity ward.

I mean no offence at all by this but I would be really interested to know what proportion of these mums were bought up as catholics in the 50s and 60s, with Irish heritage So many of these stories and the elements of internalised misogyny and shame about periods and sex seems to ring true for me as someone from this background.

i do wonder if this or similar backgrounds, combined with poverty, misogyny or elements of
abuse at home and school and untreated perimenopause might have a part to play, in shaping these women.

I don't much advice but you are not alone in this kind of experience, even though it does feel very lonely. I have taken some comfort from posts on here. Because IRL it feels like it's just you this happened to.

My Mother is almost indenticle and very damaging person. Right down to the competitive show grandparenting, lack of boundaries and volatile behaviour and always finds a way to be awkward or inappropriate. I do not see her or any of my family on her side. As you go through your own mothering and realising what you didn't have, it can be very difficult to come to terms with. Like you say, a wound that never heals and has fundamentally shaped you or caused you significant challenges. Especially when you've been raised by someone who manipulates to this level.

People have no idea how hard parenting can be without the support you are lacking and the distinct lack of a blueprint to follow. The fact you are consciously trying to be differen means you're already miles ahead of where she was at. Try not to be critical of yourself when you do make mistakes if these are rare occasions that are surrounded by otherwise considered parenting.

It takes a lot to confront what you have experienced and to make a conscious improvement. You shouldn't have grown up like this and you're right, someone should have stepped in or up to help her and you. I always wonder how many children must have grown up being abused like this but flying under the radar because outwardly, everything looks okay enough.

@runningpram mine isn't Catholic, she grew up in a comfortably well off middle class family. Her parents and her sister were/are completely different. I know I didn't grow up with them so can't say for certain but they weren't like her.

Lol yes my mother is Irish.

In a way, it’s quite reassuring (?) to think it might be an actual personality disorder. I’m not sure that reassuring is the right word exactly, but it’s something that goes some way to explaining why she is like she is. It had never ever crossed my mind until relatively recently, but it’s becoming clearer and clearer - I said to my DH not long ago that looking back, I can see that she isn’t and wasn’t a well person at all.

I think also unfortunately she’s getting worse with age (although she’s not quite 60 yet - but worse as the years go by IYSWIM).

To the poster who asked what it will take to really go NC, I think it will be when my grandparents are sadly gone. She has absolutely no qualms about going to them with lies about me and drawing them into her drama and I don’t want that for them in their last years. (she actually had my granny stage almost a kind of summit where I was summoned to apologise to my mum for moving 10 miles from my uni town, itself only 40 miles from home, aged 24. That was the infamous ‘I know you hate me’ moment from a previous post).

Mine’s not Irish or Catholic, but it’s an interesting theory. Her parents are WC, with her mum working up to a MC professional role which was really unusual in the area for the time (70s).

I’m so sorry you’ve had this experience too. Yes, it fucks you up to an unbelieveable level, doesn’t it? I wasn’t even aware until my early or mid 20s that I actually felt no emotions - I was just totally numb, and had zero self awareness as well. It was only a few years ago that I started to experience anger for the first time, and wow am I angry at her and my dad.

I really wish someone had stepped in. Looking back, it really was bad enough for social services or somebody to at least visit and check things out (although probably mum’s ‘keeping up appearances’ would’ve convinced them nothing was wrong?). Teachers at school knew she was difficult and ‘that’ parent, but nobody seemed to see the extent of it. She was truly my first bully. I wouldn’t speak in class at all - did nobody think ‘hmm, this seems a bit suspect’? I’d like to think that these days it’d get picked up more efficiently, but this was only the 00s, so really not very long ago.

This thread has been so so helpful, thank you all so much

It’s also really shocking how many of us have mums like this - not just similar, but almost following the same script?

Oh for God's sake - that's nuts. I'm Irish and it's nothing to do with being Irish, Catholic or being brought up in Ireland at that time.

Dysfunctional families exist everywhere.

Mine wasn't Irish but yes, strong Catholic background, very strict grandparents x

Is it just the one sister you have, or any other siblings?

What's your relationship like with your sister, and hers with your mum?

The TV costumes thing sounds very weird to me - i can imagine an elderly lady saying it but your mum doesn't sound that old?!

Yes, but English people often project their own issues onto Ireland. Like poverty and misogyny and a gendered culture of bodily shame didn’t exist elsewhere in these islands.

Your post reads like a book on childhood trauma. Sorry you went through this OP. You deserve therapy and I think it will help.

@motherlandtroublebecoming a parent yourself really puts a lot into perspective and opens up all sorts for scrutiny to stuff that previously was your "normal". It's then you realise what you have missed and quite what a disadvantage it has handed you and quite how vulnerable children are. Once the scales fall, reality hits thick and fast and is very overwhelming.

Sadly, I think these people do a good job of not looking too risky on a surface level and just seem a bit "difficult", not damaging or completely destructive. My own Mum had a very responsible job at one point, involving safeguarding very vulnerable people.

I hope you come to terms in your own way with your experience and find happiness with your own little family. Agree, the rage is just something else. I've long past trying to understand the behaviour. You definitely aren't alone in it, not that it helps really but it's less isolating knowing it was never your fault.

I found "unfollowing Mum" on Instagram helpful in my hardest period. Not for everyone maybe, but again just knowing I'm not having an isolated experience helped.

@DameSylvieKrin and @VivaForever81 I am now diagnosed with bipolar and have been under MH service for decades. I’m very co operative. It does mean I have come in to contact with dozens of service users. These people have a diagnosis, I have also made an effort to read extensively about childhood trauma and MH conditions to stay as well as possible, it also means denying myself alcohol as it triggers my mania. I have been an in patient when young and also a day centre patient.

So I’m no professional but have been around diagnosed mentally unwell people for many years, the manipulation of these women does point to EUPD. I was sent on a course once for people with complex and enduring MH issues that were hard to treat. At that point they were working on my diagnosis and there were some women diagnosed with EUPD on the course. I’m more grateful I have a BP diagnosis. What I have found is people with this sort of serious MH illness, they have some control but play out drama. It’s very deliberate and the only way they know how to function. During my journey through MH services in group therapy or just talking many of the women had been sexually abused as children. These older women were children when CSA was barely talked about, I would hazard a guess it happened to some of them. That’s why some of the examples on here are about them being weird about sex and relationships.

I can relate to so much of what’s been shared in this thread. Reading everybody’s posts has made me feel horrified and sad. I feel so much empathy and sympathy for you. I’m in my fifties now and my mother is in her eighties. I also feel disappointment and grief. One of her favourite games has always been to tear me down in public and then try to discipline me when she provokes a reaction. She can no longer provoke any reaction from me or the public audience that she craves. She drove my father away and he died when I was in my early twenties. I would love to be able to give you some advice Op…. There’s some very good advice already on this thread. All I can add is that you sound very strong. You recognise this shit now for what it is. I know how much drama you have to go through and how very draining it is. There are some very good channels on YouTube which you would probably find useful on the subject of narcissistic mothers. I have mostly used self help to learn how to cope with it. I strongly recommend counselling and therapy if you can.

This thread has actually freaked me out a bit, I could have written many of these posts. Identical about the periods stuff and the Irish background....!? It makes me feel much calmer to know that I am not alone x