AIBU to think someone should have helped my mum a long time ago, and to feel hard done by that I don’t have a close, supportive mum in my life?

[motherlandtrouble]

Just wanting to vent, I think, sorry.

My mum has always been ‘difficult’. Our childhood was characterised by her volatile moods - she’d either be shouting at us or giving us the silent treatment from a very young age. My earliest memory is of sitting on the stairs crying for her ‘mummy mummy mummy’ until I felt physically sick, and her completely blanking me as though I didn’t exist. She had weird boundaries, would walk in on us changing and comment on our bodies, go through our possessions, etc. She would make strange comments about my dad’s ex-girlfriends (they married at 23 so there can’t have been many), or when the phone rang, she’d tell us it would be to say my dad had been in an accident.

When I got older, her behaviour got worse. I tried to confide in her e.g. re. going on the pill at 17, which made her go absolutely crazy at me screaming ‘don’t get pregnant’, or when I was having a hard time on a study abroad placement (she’d only let me call home if it was a ‘good’ phonecall). She wanted to put a tracker on my phone to see where I was at all times, wanted a copy of my uni timetable etc. She’d stop talking to me if I spent (my own) money on things she didn’t deem appropriate (e.g. she ‘didn’t believe I was that blind’ when I got contact lenses in my early 20s).

When I met DH and started spending time with his family, she really went off the rails. I suggested she got some counselling, and she emailed apparently on her counsellor’s advice to tell me that she might walk in front of a lorry tomorrow and then I’d be sorry I hadn’t seen her more often. When I was pregnant, she went crying to other family members that I hadn’t shared my scan dates with her (which wasn’t true) and told me she was going to ‘hijack’ my baby from nursery.

She’s always been like this, but every so often, I feel sad that I won’t ever have a supportive, kind mum who I actually want to spend time with and who I can go to for advice or comfort. She’s never been that mum and I don’t actually think that she can be. I have my own child now and it’s becoming even more apparent to me that I’m missing that key support in my life.

I don’t let her be alone with my DS but she manages to be weird even when accompanied. She’s very invested in being a kind of ‘grandma of the year’ in competition with my MIL (who probably pays her absolutely no mind whatsoever and doesn’t know they’re in this competition), bringing presents and being completely OTT affectionate with DS which turns my stomach, if I’m honest. But she also makes odd or hurtful comments constantly, repeatedly calling me ‘horrible mummy’ to DS when I wiped his nose, or shouting ‘complete failure!!’ at him when he was learning to crawl.

I actually don’t think she’s capable of getting better now because she’s been this way for 60 years and seems to show no awareness of her behaviour. I wish somebody had helped her a long time ago (my dad? Her parents?), but it doesn’t seem like anyone did. My dad is very invested in not noticing her behaviour, or pretending everything is OK. If I try to bring up my mum’s behaviour with him, I’m being too sensitive or she doesn’t mean it or ‘you know what she’s like’ etc etc.

Now that I’m a mum myself, I feel very lonely without a supportive mum of my own, and I feel as though I’m second guessing my own parenting of DS because I’m trying always to not be my mum and to be a loving, empathetic and caring mum to him (so the ‘horrible mummy’ comment was really hurtful, especially because I grew up terrified of her).

There’s also the profound damage that her behaviour did to us psychologically and emotionally. I have terrible self esteem, have had some damaging relationships, made a lot of life choices just to try and please her (which of course never did). I’m still feeling the repercussions of her behaviour now in my 30s, and I’m constantly terrified of turning into her. I’ve started to study child psychology to understand what was done to us but also to try and be the best mum I can to my DS, as well as having a lot of counselling on and off over the years. But I think the kind of core wound never goes away, or it gets reopened every time I have to see her, which is much more often than I’d like.

I’m not really sure what I’m looking for from this post, I think I just wanted to vent about it all, sorry. Thank you if you’ve got to the end of this!

@Blacksheep1982 yes well said. Being the mother that you needed as a child is really very healing.

My mother is very similar, it’s all about her, she’s emotionally inept. My SIL has told me that she’s expecting a party for her 80th next year, I just can’t do it. I get so angry with her shenanigans. We have the same hairdresser and she’s told them she was a nurse for 35years, she was a HCA, totally fuckin delusional. My brother hardly has any contact with her, he lives 50 miles away, lucky bugger.

When my periods started she said I could use her sanitary pads, great big thick things, awful. I had to buy my own in the end out of my pocket money, I cleaned my dads car at the weekend and did an elderly neighbours shopping for extra spendo to help cover it. She expects everyone to run around after her, my late dad called her a drama Queen, when he passed away we saw the full extent. I remember leaving her house when the vicar had been to arrange dads funeral, as I left I looked up at the sky and said “thanks a lot dad for leaving us with that fucking idiot”. How he didn’t walk away I’ll never know 🤷‍♀️

OMG, I had to buy my own sanitary pads too, what a strange thing to try and control! I used to get £2 a week pocket money off my nana and I had to use most of it for pads.
Sorry you're still going through it with her, mine died before I realised how bad it was. X

my late dad called her a drama Queen, when he passed away we saw the full extent.

@Snippit Yes, my Mum protected me from some of my Dad’s behavior and like you, I only realized the full extent after she’d died.

You can’t help but wonder why they stuck with such partners, loyalty, I suppose.

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward would be a good read. Your mum sounds like a right horror and your dad in has been complicit too.

Thank you all so much for your replies and I’m sorry for not replying till now. I’ve been reading them all but haven’t found a chance to reply.

My mum was also very weird about periods. When I started mine, I didn’t tell her for ages and tried to make do with tissue paper. I was old enough to have already learned about periods at school, thankfully, because they were never ever mentioned at home. My younger sister wasn’t so lucky and started early before school had covered it, and she thought she was dying. Even then, mum brought her to me with my sister in tears for me to do the explaining rather than mum.

She was totally weird about sex and relationships as well. Her idea of ‘the talk’ was shouting ‘don’t go upstairs!’ when she left me home alone with my first boyfriend (I was 15 and he was 17, I think, and we didn’t have sex because I wasn’t ready). When I went on the pill a couple of years later, thinking I was being responsible, I told her and she went absolutely crazy at me, screaming and shouting (everything was either complete rage or icy silent treatment).

When I had a serious boyfriend in 6th form, she’d comment on his female friends, things like ‘oh I wouldn’t like that’ if a girl spoke to him. Her attitude towards other women is very much internalised misogyny, I think, but I don’t know where it comes from.

When I was upset about going to uni and being separate from said 6th form boyfriend, she told me in a fit of anger (us being sad or upset always triggered her anger) that he’d ‘go to uni, meet someone else and forget all about [me]’. That was her version of helpful/supportive. Is it any wonder I don’t confide in her any more? Yet she wonders why we don’t have a close relationship 🤷‍♀️

Thank you all again for your replies! I’ll go back and re-read them all properly.

She sounds exactly like mine I got called a scrubber and prostitute ( didn’t have sex until I was 21 I was so ashamed and thought it was a bad thing) , it’s gets easier to step back once you get your own children as you focus on them and try to become the lovely mum you never had. When I had my 2 I saw her did what she was ( she will do it to them too) and went to minimal occasional polite visits , she no longer speaks to us her grandchildren included . Look after your family and you do a great job xx

Sounds incredibly difficult. My mum was an alcoholic and that gave her an awful mean streak. I totally relate to your comment about how she spoke to you on your year abroad. I did a year abroad too and had all my stuff stolen from me and my mum (drunk) was awful about it. I was in bits after speaking to her.

Anyway, she died from her alcoholism before I fell pregnant with my first child, which was very sad as she had just started AA etc. However, I do wonder how it would have been if she had lived. Possibly not that great.

Anyway, I would not have your mum near me tbh or my children.

My dad was similar to this and when he died, the mourning I did was more for what we would never have.

It has definitely shaped a lot of my adult relationships and for a long time I couldn’t understand why my mum let him get away with it. I am at peace with that aspect of things now but it’s been a long slog.

He also could never see that he was in any way to blame for the relationship that’s we didn’t have.

God that all sounds awful, I’m so sorry. Yes she was emotionally very abusive to you. You have every right to feel angry at your dad for not doing more or recognising the signs of a personality disorder / mental illness. Also figures like the GP. They must have realised something was different about her. Thank goodness our understanding of mental illness is much better these days, but it’s a real shame your mum and you werent closer supervised by someone like social services, or a doctor who would have prescribed your mum meds.

I also feel sorry for your mum, as I personally believe people like this can’t act any different because it is just who they are. The blame lies more with those around them not recognising they / the child needs support, in my view anyway. It sounds like you are finding a way to move forward and break the cycle as they say. Well done for this - you are creating the family you didn’t get to have, and hopefully will reap the benefits in the future x

Interestingly, my mother was not equipped to handle periods either, and refusing to buy me sanitary pads was part of it. When I was about 12 she got me to write to all the manufacturers and ask them for free samples, and that was supposed to be my supply. I mean WTF. She seemed to think a dozen free pads was enough. I was too frightened to ask her for more so ended up using loo roll and leaking through my clothes. One month, in desperation, I took some of hers from the bathroom and she went absolutely ballistic and screamed at me. She asked me what had happened to the free ones I'd got and said that should have been plenty and I couldn't possibly need to steal hers. Same happened when I took ibuprofen from the cupboard without asking because I was in so much pain I was regularly having days off school. I was called selfish and disgusting. It didn't seem to occur to her to buy extra. She never asked me if I was coping. It took a phone call from the (very irate) school receptionist to get her to take me to a GP, and at the appointment, she put on this simpering face and asked me in a babyish voice in front of the doctor 'why didn't you just say?' This was 2 years after my periods started. 2 effing years to notice I was having hellish periods. (I went on to be diagnosed with endometriosis as an adult). Needless to say I handled it very differently with my own daughter.

I disagree massively.

My mother was the same with periods. Wouldn't buy me sanitary towels, then when I had to use tissue paper and bled onto my clothes she told me I wasn't coping and that I was disgusting- still didn't buy me anything! It wasn't a question of affording them either.

I ended up getting a job at 14 so I could buy then myself.

Hard disagree. Everything OP has described it textbook narcissistic mother abuse.

OP, I’m over ten years ahead of you in this journey. My advice, get into therapy first and foremost and stay in therapy, with a therapist who is gentle, kind, compassionate and understands maternal narcissism. Go as low contact with your mum as possible, expect kickback here, but it’s best for your mental health in the long run. Pour your love and energy into your son and husband; make your home a safe and loving place where people can be who they are and feel what they feel with nothing but unconditional love and compassion, and this extends to yourself too. The most important thing I’ve learned in my journey is to be the mum you needed to yourself. Having a bad day? What would that mum you so desperately needed say to you? How would she treat you? Look after you? Say and do all those things to yourself.

Sending you the biggest hug. There’s such a deep, deep pain in that longing for a mum you never had. Especially when you become a mum yourself.

Why are you allowing access to your child to carry on psychologically hurting them the way you’ve allowed her to carry on hurting you all these years is what you need to ask yourself!!! Go no contact!!! Having no mum is better than a mum like this and it’s no good for your child

Motherlandtrouble

re your comment in your initial post:

"I actually don’t think she’s capable of getting better now because she’s been this way for 60 years and seems to show no awareness of her behaviour. I wish somebody had helped her a long time ago (my dad? Her parents?), but it doesn’t seem like anyone did. My dad is very invested in not noticing her behaviour, or pretending everything is OK. If I try to bring up my mum’s behaviour with him, I’m being too sensitive or she doesn’t mean it or ‘you know what she’s like’ etc etc".

This is indeed who she is and who she has always been. What if anything do you know about her childhood, that often gives clues?. Was she put on a pedestal and or otherwise worshipped by one parent in particular?. Its likely that one or both her parents was a narcissist.

It's not your fault your mother is like this nor did you make her that way. Unfortunately narcissistic people are pretty much resistant to therapy and do not do well in it mainly because they think there is nothing wrong with them. She therefore never sought nor wanted to seek help. She is at the centre of her universe and everyone around her are all bit part players.

Narcissistic mothers are in the general population and this thread is full of women with those sort of mothers. They have no friends either because when people find out what they are really like they back away completely. Narcissistic mothers in particular make for being deplorably bad parents and these now adult children of narcissists have gone through hell.

People like your dad made a choice here and he chose his wife; he became complicit in her behaviour and threw you as his daughter under the bus in the process. She ensnared him in her grip and used sex to draw him in too. His responses to you are typical of a narcissist enabler and he will never apologise either to you nor accept any responsibility for his actions. Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all and always but always need a willing enabler to help them, step forward your dad. He should not be let off the hook here because he has failed you abjectly as a parent too.

Grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. You come to learn that people like this are really not worth bothering about. Keep them both also well away from your child. You also need to stay away from them.

I'm shocked at the link between sanitary products/periods and absent mothers. I just always thought mine was really 'stingy'. I used toilet roll a lot and had stains on all my knickers that she wouldn't replace. Sending hugs to all.

OP you do realise you don’t have to maintain contact with your emotionally abusive mother?
I could have written your post as I also have a narcissist for a mother and a totally enmeshed, enabling Dad.
It was when I noticed my mother starting to get up to her old tricks with my own children that I realised I needed to end the cycle and protect them from her.
I now have iron clad boundaries and we haven’t seen her since Christmas. You’re not indebted to her and you need to put yourself (and your son) first now.

Thank you (sorry for only directly replying to some posts - I really appreciate all of them, just grabbing a few minutes to reply while DS has a nap).

I’ve known my mum was an absolute nightmare to deal with for a long time, since I was maybe 16-17ish, although she scared me for a lot longer than that and I always felt envious of schoolfriends’ mums but I couldn’t have explained why. But it’s only since having DS that it’s really really hit home that she won’t change, I think?

Every time I look at him, I think what a beautiful, sweet boy he is, and how no child deserves to be treated like my mum treated us. He needs to form a secure attachment to me and my DH so he can grow up being self-aware, self-assured and happy. I’m working so hard to provide for him what I didn’t have, and if it means going NC, it’s what I’ll have to do.

My parents’ visits already affect me so much that DH and I have talked about going LC and making sure things are on our terms.

I don’t even know why she wants to see or hear from me so much - it’s not as though she enjoys seeing me, but it’s always been this way. It’s like she wants the ‘status’ of the relationship but doesn’t actually like me as a person.

She’s also weirdly inflexible in her thinking, I find it totally baffling. When she was last here, there was a costume drama on the telly, I think set in the 1950s or 60s, so the actors were dressed for the time period, and she was laughing her head off saying things like ‘oh my GOD, what do they think they look like?!’ and ‘who are all those village idiots?!’ It’s like she doesn’t seem to understand make believe or has a very one-dimensional understanding of things? I can’t really explain it.

If you read about Cluster B personality disorders specifically NPD you will see how much of that relates to your mother's behaviour. It is not possible to have a relationship with someone this disordered of thinking and if you think you can pull off a relationship with her on your terms think again. Your mother will simply ignore any boundaries you care to set her. Being with someone like your mother is like watching a repeat of a tv show you've always hated.

She really does see you as an extension of her.

I had the same period weirdness with my mum and didn't tell her for a long time. I've never mentioned it to anyone including two therapists I've had. My mum has a tendency to overshare other peoples medical issues for her own attention seeking, I guess, and also to use sensitive personal issues to poke fun at me and bully me, so I didn't feel comfortable telling her. It was a horribly lonely time.

I also felt the same way as you looking at my baby DD and thinking "how could she be so cruel to me".

What will be the point when you do finally go no contact? Will it be when you see her starting to treat your own child as cruelly as she treats you? Sadly I think your relationship with your mum is only going to end one way, and you need to come to terms with that sooner rather than later.

Good luck sending best wishes x I was very aware from a young age I used to be so shocked when other ladies were nice to me after every chat or visit used to take me a day or two to recovery my husband asked me why I was bothering he was right

@motherlandtrouble Your comment: Us being sad or upset always triggered her anger.

Yes! A fucking normal mother would comfort their child...mine always got very very angry. She took us being upset as a personal insult, especially if we got upset in front of anyone else. Because she is the perfect mother, you see, and the perfect mother's children are NEVER upset...

It's also evidence of a total lack of empathy. I find it both comforting, and very depressing to know there are other women out there who have had the same experience...

Mine was also weird about periods. I was the only girl, with two brothers. I was not allowed to keep sanitary products in the bathroom - because they might see them shock horror! - or allowed to use tampons - because that would mean I was no longer a virgin! Stupid fucking cow. I also had very painful periods for years, to the point I would faint with the pain. She couldn't have cared less.