July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Their relationship is definitely weird, isn't it? It's becoming more and more obvious.

I am really triggered if there's contact. Part of it is that I'm just so enormously angry with her. Some of it is the childhood, but some of it is also the horrible ways she's behaved in my adulthood, like her scabby treatment of my youngest child. I never confronted her about any of it, just quietly withdrew. I got the message in childhood that anger as an emotion was never acceptable, because my father was so viciously angry all the time, so there's this terrible fear that experiencing anger = being like him. So I squashed it and squashed it, and every time there was shitty behaviour that anger would be a normal response to, I shut it down. I just let things quietly pass. I should have challenged her more when she treated my son poorly. Although saying that, I did try once, and she was in a don't need you phase and laughed in my face.

But then some people can be challenged when they behave poorly or make mistakes, can't they - it feels safe to call them on it. And some people don't. I don't feel safe to call my mother out on her bad behaviour. I wonder why not.

Your situation resonates a great deal. Being incredibly mature and detached is the aim. It feels nigh on impossible alot of the time to retain it. Particularly when you're of the nature where people will dump on you and use you for their issues - and we then accept those projections ( trained our life to do so).

I agree about self esteem. The above feeds into having problems with it. We get surrounded by the types who will dump on us when they have struggles.

Sometimes I look at them and all the people they have and I just think to myself they are lucky to have people. But then it’s all transactional, dependant on their needs being met. I want friends who want deeper connections than this. Image seems to attract people like flowers to bees.

I think it's very difficult to have deep connection with many people. I have 2 people where I enjoy deep honest conversations. It isn't quite everything though.

Part of you, many of us at times, probably feels empty .You have a non stop situation of managing difficult engagement and communication with people around you which is sapping for you. Of course you are going to crave anything counter to that. It isn't to insult anyone btw. I understand the dynamics here are really difficult.

I just don’t want connections with people who have ulterior motives.

For example I thought I made a mum friend from a club both our kids attend. The other week another of her friends was there and I was blanked. The whole of the 30 mins was between them and what they are doing. But all the other weeks were different. I don’t expect to be center of attention but then I don’t expect to be ignored either.

Plus this person a few weeks back had said some stuff about this friend that wasn’t nice and then to her face they best pals. Confuses the shit out of me.

This is a huge huge proportion of people. Especially when you are dealing with school mum's 😭. I am generalising alot.

At least you see straight away that this person is very two faced.

I was two faced at times as many people are. Only as I grew and started really working on myself etc did I then feel how wrong it felt and go, no don't do it. You might always have had that very strong value which is a wonderful quality many people would absolutely love in a friend.

I am extremely loyal, I don’t use people. I struggle with this not being reciprocated. It’s a minefield for an ND person and it’s hard to stop the internalising of it.

How would you feel about it being over?

That mum friend was rude strawberry, she's not a friend she's just using you for company while she's bored. If she actually liked you she'd have said hello at least, maybe even introduced you to the other person. It's not you, anyone would have been initially fooled by her behaviour. Now you know what she's like you can behave accordingly. If you want company because you're bored, chat to her, but don't tell her anything important or personal because you know she chats shit about people behind their back, don't try to bond with her she isn't worth it and has already shown she doesn't care about you. If you CBA with chatter out of boredom then don't chat with her, either tell her your tired, just go hmmm or give really short yes/no answers to anything she says or excuse yourself to go talk to someone else. She can think whatever she thinks. Let her be offended or whatever. If she wants people to be nice to her she shouldn't be such a bitch

Twat if someone in an abusive relationship doesn't LTB they can find themselves taking on aspects of the abuser's behaviour. Not out of maliciousness, but sort of a wonkey version of self defence. Trying to affect the behaviour of their abuser using techniques that amount to manipulation or trying to exert a degree of control via various means. Not because of an innate desire to control the person, but out of a necessity of trying to control the situation so their abuser doesn't kick off at them or is less controlling towards them. It's very toxic.

If the relationship ends the abuser will find someone else to abuse. Whereas the victim, displaying abusive behaviour towards their partner during that particular relationship, will hopefully revert back to their normal non-controlling self when they're out of that relationship for good. Although it's not guaranteed, some will have the attitude they can either be the abuser or the abused and go too far the other way in their desire never to be a victim again. They're unaware of the middle ground where assertiveness and boundaries live, in non-toxic relationships that aren't abusive at all.

Could be you're seeing that play out. I'm not familiar with the people you mentioned, although I know who they are and the history.

I just find I can’t be bothered with friendships @SamAndAnnie despite really liking to have them. I guess it’s something that takes time to find. Sick to death of this narcissistic world I appear to live in. Fake shit everywhere. Really difficult for someone like me who struggles with talking things at face value and reading behind the lines. People post pictures online and I know full well half the family don’t talk or they sweeping half their life under the carpet. What is so wrong with just being real. You struggling with something, great we’re all here for you. I’m struggling great you all here for me. Nobody seems to want to admit anything real anymore, unless it’s good then we all know about this. Are people just genuinely sad behind the scenes and hiding parts of themselves because no way can they be this happy and perfect all the time.

You're right they're not. Social media is edited highlights. So half truths and only the good stuff. The problem with telling everything to everyone is that they're often not all there for you. A percentage of them will gossip about your situation for entertainment, some will use it against you (as in an opportunistic exploitation of weakness (whether real or perceived weakness) eg you're in a low place so they'll target you for bullying thinking you won't fight back), some are judgemental and will look down on you for being in that situation as if it's all your own fault, some will glory in your misfortune because it makes them feel better about their own lives. It's not wrong to share everything if you choose but it makes you vulnerable and so it's not wrong to keep some things private either or to be choosy about who you make yourself vulnerable with. The thing about being two faced I don't get that either, but a lot of people are that way and it's not against the law so 🤷. Privacy I don't mind, but I have no interest in being friends with the two faced ones or the judgemental gossips who like to put others down. You're not wrong to have high standards for friends. Especially when your time and energy is precious. Why waste it on those who aren't worth it?

I think friendships can be somewhat of a minefield these days and if a person has additional needs then it can be ever more challenging.

Glad to have got away from the school
mums as the vast majority of them were very much fair weather people. A few of these parents were genuinely nice and so it was both shocking and awfully sad when one of them died suddenly. I miss her💐

I wouldn’t say I have additional needs but I don’t do silliness very well. I suppose I might be too intense maybe. But when I form a friendship I’m literally inviting them into my life, with my children, where I’m safe. This is my safe space and I just don’t need or want it spoilt with inauthentic people. The worst like @SamAndAnnie said is someone who is getting a little ego boost from your vulnerability. Like a phew someone is worse than me. It’s so hard to figure people out without giving too much away.

@Strawberrypjs I get it. Now I have lost tolerance to this. I'd have to walk away in 5 minutes of this bitching. It takes energy from me.

People are so difficult like this and things are not helping with SMedia and a sense of detachment almost amongst humans who are imo becoming more zombie like through technology.

I can't remember if you said but if you like animals can you find love and connection there. They sense genuine people so quickly.

I'm very familiar with bitchy behaviour as I was taught and modelled it a little. Not too much as inside it wasn't right. It's really empty stuff and you're better avoiding anyone who does it.

People are difficult and very disappointing generally.

I just hate narc families. Oh to be loved and hugged and valued and cared for and told they are proud you’ve come through hard times, to be standing with you not looking at you in disgust from a far because you dare not be a perfect example of them. It is so bloody disappointing. I’m ok on my own but I’d bloody love a village.

People seem to be able to live with detached relationships that I real struggle to do. I’m all in and feel safe or I’m completely out. Narc type relationship are not safe feeling, I do not like the way they feel now. I guess no one does, that’s what keeps people inside them, this push/pull, never sure never safe. You never feel at peace within them and I don’t like this.

I think people as they grow into the reality of life and humans and themselves do struggle. They struggle with the reality and the fact detachment is often necessary because the vast majority are a bit fake. And that can feel soul destroying engaging in it.

The me before, and most people...they operate from delusion and denial and operate slightly robotic and fake. The reality of people is pretty dark and incredibly disappointing . Most of us operate through a veneer on some level. Being too honest and real for me means losing people. It's not appreciated by the majority especially if you're originally a people pleaser and then rejecting that.

I'm saying basically that you aren't missing anything because there's anything wrong with you. You have an awareness that spots things. It's harder to be deluded for many ND people I notice. The social weird rules are nonsensical sometimes. I bloody agree. 😆

I feel so strongly that what you are looking for is not where you think it is. People are annoying. Social media is so false. If you'd be ok without it a trial off it might help.

This might not be the appropriate place. It's slightly left field.

The standard lines and approaches by the people/ family we have experienced is usually standard. So i understand grey rock' and NC. I'm at NC with the 2 main family as it was the only way. Without being highly abusive to me ( sibling) there was no relationship. So it was easy to NC as I'd been pushed to the point of wanting to run away permanently from that persons behaviour. They only wanted to be abusive by the end persistently so nothing lost. Mum was different as there were things from it that I liked somewhat. But that became so manipulative and incredibly covert that had to go. She would not accept my wanting separation from incredibly abusing sibling.

My teen - the behaviour is identical. I hate saying this. It's identical and in some ways worse. This is my child ffs so it's so complex because of love as a mother. I have an awfully enabling ex yet intent is not always clear to me. There's definitely awful narc at minimum behaviour. It's very underhand in cleverly subtle ways.

So I got rid of one portion ( family ) of abusers and this remaining feels to have intensified as I've grown away from one area of abuse.

My question is basically I have no idea on earth how to interact with teen. I am generally becoming so sick I think is this how my time here will be spent. It kills me inside dealing with this, not known how to interact with the behaviour and I feel absolutely raging inside that I have to deal with this. I don't want to NC my own teen-ager.

It is awful behaviour. I appreciate they're not an adult. But it is taking parts of me away inside sitting here when I have to hear and deal with stuff I am so not ok with. I feel so confused permanently by the behaviour.

Horrible comments, undermining me, emboldened by a narrative I have a mental health condition, everything is I am over reacting. I could go on and on. Comments that feel so so off to me and set my system off.

I know I'm not over reacting at all here. I feel powerless and exhausted even when they aren't here now. ( I'm not primary carer).

I have no idea how you interact with your child who acts like the people we all discuss here tbh as this worsens. My soul is screaming no more.of this. It actually makes me want to stop talking and sit in silence with them as stuff comes out their mouth which is so awful to me. I can't do this. My body screams no bloody way. Our interactions are about two days a week. We have lovely moments because I am always coming back and giving love no matter bloody what.

No discussion about this behaviour and how wrong it is works when it comes out. I am so broken by all the people in my life that I have little resilience to rise above every horrible interaction when it gets horrible. I get texts about me from the ex too which I have to deal with, never the behaviour I'm dealing with feeding my strong response. I want this all to stop.

I am not what you'd call a wet lettuce in any way btw. This probably sounds like someone who is. That's not what's going on.

I am devastated thinking I can't do this any more with you. Because I have no strategies to protect myself mentally and then the physical fall out to my body and health. What tactics are there when it's your child.

@JoyDivision79 I really don’t have any useful suggestions. I also struggle with my own daughter as she takes on some of her dad’s personality. I have a very real physical reaction to this like you. I just want to avoid this behaviour. We can grey rock everyone we can detach many but our own children, really it does take it too far. We can not get away. I detach from from my in-laws but my partner does not. Therefore I’m still attached some way, still attached to ex via child. I absolutely hate this environment. I want out like you, especially with my heath like you is not always great. I just dream of an alternate life in a cottage in the forest.

@JoyDivision79 might be worth looking to see if there are any parenting classes in your local area - the secondary that my youngest goes to regularly sends out emails with details of classes and talks about dealing with difficult teens. Most of them are run by the local authority or children's charities and are free. Some are run by the Senco at the school. What you're dealing with isn't that uncommon and it is something that schools and other agencies are aware of - some children are just more difficult than others.

@Dogaredabomb I don't know, TBH. A mixed bag of feelings, none of them strong enough to make me act on them and change it. I always tell my kids that never is a really long time and sometimes it's OK to make a decision that's OK for right now knowing you can change your mind later.

@JoyDivision79 I think a lot of the problem is that when we struggle (and it’s perfectly normal to) we don’t have the infrastructure there to support us back to balanced. It’s finding some infrastructure somehow. Wr can’t do it alone, we just aren’t built to do it alone.

Do you think this happens to everyone in life or more so us? We get to a certain level in life and think oh shit, I literally have no real connected relationships. Not even one with myself. I don’t want any of mine now.