July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Love to, we'd need different families though 😂😂😂😂

I've been wanting for two self-help type books to arrive all day today and now they aren't coming till Saturday. They were recommended on here. This is so hard, I'm struggling so much this week and I just wanted to start reading something to feel like I'm doing something to help the situation :(

@Slinkyminky22 I am sorry you are struggling this week and your books are delayed are you able to read them or similar online or audiobooks while you wait for them. Would talking on here help?

Is there anything you can talk on here that you are struggling with that perhaps we could help with?

@Spendysis @Strawberrypjs
Thank you for replying.

I ended up taking out a trial of audible last night and fell asleep listening to one of the books I'm waiting to be delivered. "Will I ever be good enough?Daughters of narcissistic mothers". I think that's the title. So much of it rang true. Just wanting to be mothered :(
I don't have any adults in my life other than my husband and friends. Obviously I am an adult now but I just want a caring, supportive family member.

I could type all day about what I'm struggling with. I think the main thing this week is just the realisation of how much head space I actually devote to her. I was listening to the book last night and worrying that my own children will grow up feeling the same as I do, about me. But I am breaking the cycle and while I sometimes lack patience and make mistakes I am not like my mother.

I bet you are not like your mother at all. All we have to do is see our kids for the individuals they are, praise them for what they like to do, let them just be them. I have found the whole thing extremely daunting but have realised that we just have to let our kids grow in the environment where people let them be them. It’s actually very simple, which seems a crazy thought considering the complexity of how we were raised. It’s supposed to just be easy, they grow and we watch and cheer. Anyone who isn’t cheering gets cut off. I don’t think our kids will feel the same difficulties because they will be able to snip snip easier as their self esteem will be more healthier. Give yourself a great big cheer for what you have done and are doing for them, it’s the greatest thing a parent can do.

strawberry

And you also have two qualities your mother lacks; empathy and insight.

Omg I’ve just wanted moana 2 and cried my eyes out. What a beautiful story, we don’t make it unless we do it together as a family. Really stung.

strawberry you're so right, it's so easy to find something to praise about who someone actually is rather than who you would like them to be. In fact the idea of wanting your kids to be sporty, brainy, good looking for you is just so weird!

So your kid likes reading, being with animals, baking 🤷🏼‍♂️ praise that rather than berate them for not liking tennis. For instance.

I just think people have got a little messed up in there thinking about where self esteem and security comes from. You’ll be ok if you have a good job and money and marriage and kids and all that. Don’t get too emotional or het up and gain self control and you’ll be fine. But this doesn’t work and so many people seem to be unhappy or on antidepressants. People are afraid to be themselves, we are taught to hide ourselves away, the parts that make us unique.

I wonder if it’s a thing just in regular families where parents prefer a child that they have more in common with. I mean it must be hard to connect to a child who is more logical if you are emotional or visa versa? It makes the parent feel more successful rather then if the child and you have no shared interests so you don’t spent time together.

I think my partner was much more emotional than he has been allowed to develop and he’s pushed it down an awful lot. His dad is very much emotions are for idiots. His other son has the emotional intelligence of a grape and him and his dad are stuck to each other. The mum also is emotionally inept. I can’t see how they fill themselves if they don’t have emotional cups to fill.

Can anyone else relate to just having spent most of their life feeling numb? I'm in my 40s now and can only think of a handful of occasions where I've felt happy or excited during the past couple of decades. I've gone through periods of taking antidepressants, have done CBT. I'm not sure depression is really the most accurate description of what I'm experiencing, but I don't have the words to describe it to medical professionals to try to get help.

I'm largely a functioning person on paper, but have never really been interested in making plans. Even as a child I was really withdrawn, just wanted to escape my home and once I did that things felt better for a while, but not too long. I'm so low contact with my Mum and brothers (only surviving family) that I don't know that they particularly have influence on how I feel in the present day. It's almost as though withdrawing so much from daily life whilst I was growing up has affected how my brain has developed. I've had periods where I've forced myself to be sociable, but I think people ultimately pick up on something not being quite right with me.

My DH's Mum passed away a couple of years back and he was talking about how losing his last parent made him feel strange and really ungrounded in life. I can see what he means from observing how friends are with their children (in healthy relationships) but thought to myself how I've never had that sort of relationship with my parents.

I find it very difficult to feel certain emotions (joy, excitement, disappointment, anger, frustration). I can feel them more easily when I'm alone but I find it very difficult to have those emotions in front of other people, especially positive emotions. I put it down to frequently having to disassociate from my feelings as a child, because they were so often weaponised against me (get that look off your face, you're ungrateful, I'll give you something to cry about, I'll knock your block off). If you showed joy in anything there was a high risk that you you would get the piss taken out of you. I think the emotions are there but they're stuck on pause IYSWIM. I had to numb myself to survive living in that house. I think this is what disassociation is - disconnecting from your own feelings in order to survive.

I have also done CBT plus EMDR which has been shown to help with the stuck feelings. TBH I could probably do with a lot more sessions but I'm not ready for that at the moment. I am also v LC with mother and siblings (was estranged from father and he died a few years ago). If I do have contact with my mother my anxiety goes through the roof. I am on edge the whole time, I can't relax, I think because suppressing your feelings and not allowing your natural reactions to simply happen is really hard work. The rule in our house was that my father was always right and no-one was allowed to challenge or criticise his behaviour, and (as I've recently realised) that I was expected to support my mother, partly by behaving as though the violence, drug use, bullying and emotional abuse had no affect on me. I couldn't say my father was awful, and to my mother, I had to show I was happy when I wasn't and that I loved her when I didn't. There was no room for my feelings so I didn't have them. (FWIW I understand that this made me codependent which has made me start to wonder if this was a reaction to narc traits in my mother).

I'm reading a book called 'what happened to you' at the moment which I recommend.

Thanks for sharing @crrazysnakes; 'stuck feelings' is an accurate description. It sounds like we grew up in quite a similar households, there was never any genuine positive expression of emotion, but lots of piss taking peppered with regular beatings from my elder brother for random things daring to be in the same room as him. I'm quite pleasantly surprised when I see how friends interact with their children. It's lovely to see them happy, but there's a tinge of bittersweet, as I think if I'd had been shown even a shred of that compassion growing up, life would probably look a lot better for me than it does now. It's also meant I've never seriously considered having my own children, as I would have no idea what a healthy family dynamic is.

I really don't care about my family and can understand why they behaved the way they did (treated similarly by their parents) even if I don't agree with it. I'm over wanting to try to have any sort of meaningful relationship with them. In theory, that means I should be able to seek out friendships and build my own support network, but it never seems to stick.

I will order that book, I'm just finishing reading A Compassionate Mind which had some useful exercises which will hopeful be of benefit in time. I'll give EMDR another look. I think when I check for practitioners in my area a few years back, not many of them had reviews which put me off, but it seems a bit more widely used now so that may have changed.

@CoolherShakeher I have got children, one thing I learned very quickly is that it's really easy to be nice to your children. It's not difficult at all. Mine are young adults now and I've never at any stage felt the need to speak to or treat them the way my parents treated me. That's quite a bitter pill to swallow. My parents often made me feel that I provoked the behaviour but I just don't think that was true. They benefit from believing it, though.

I'm NC with my mum and had been for 6 years, we reconciled for 18 months but she spent those 18 months trying to turn my DD against me. It was horrific. I have 3 siblings and 1 is NC with her too, 1 was NC for a few years but is now her golden child and the remaining sibling is sometimes the golden child, sometimes the scapegoat.

I have always been the scapegoat. I've been diagnosed with autism as an adult and from being a child I have always had a very strong sense of justice and what's wrong is wrong, right is right ect. I'm the only one who doesn't brush things under the carpet and pretend they didn't happen. And I don't mean I moan or complain, I try to understand

My mum has alienated us all against our fathers and from each other. We didn't grow up united as siblings, we grew up getting angry on our mums behalf because one of us had upset her. There was and is still, no loyalty between us all. It's really sad.

I've always tried to keep a good relationship with eldest sibling, and we have, as long as I've not rocked the boat, not disagreed. Done what she wanted. She started trying to repeat our family cycle and tried to paint my DD as fhe golden child and my DS as the scapegoat. Invited DD places and for sleepovers but never DS. Even when I said I don't like it and it's not fair. It needed to stop. They both have displayed the same behaviours iver the years and from DD it's acceptable but from DS it's not. She was the only sibling I was in contact with

It all came to a head last week, we were at the zoo and she was manhandling DS, shoving and pushing him. DS is on the pathway for autism and adhd ( both me and dd diagnosed ) and I do not let him rough play because he gets too giddy and takes it too far. My sister knows this. She was pushing, shoving him and then went to grab him, he slapped her in the face, she then picked him up and threw him into a bamboo bush.... it was awful people were looking at us

I looked at her and said it was too far and called DS over to me ( he's 8 ) she cane storming over, demanded an apology off him and he said no, she then threatened he couldn't come to her house if he didn't say sorry, he said no and then she said he wouldn't be sleeping over ( we were all meant to be staying as we had plans for the next day ) if he didn't apologise, he said he didn't want to sleep over anyway

She storned off shouting and I mean shouting infront of everyone, I told her to stop said she cancelled it out by throwing him in the bush... she carried on shouting and in the end I ended up shouting back at her and telling her to shut her mouth because she was taking it too far and I was getting really angry. She then started crying saying she hadn't done anything wrong

I spoke to DS after and told him he shouldn't of slapped her, but at the same time she cancelled it out by throwing him in a bush. It was a bamboo bush aswell

To top if off, 2 years ago when DD was also 8, she slapped me in the face at a fanily BBQ.... funnily enough because my sister was shoving and pushing and leaving, I had gone over to intervene. My sister found it hilarious when DD slapped me and I cried I was so hurt and upset. This is the sort of level that it's okay for DD and not for DS

She was expecting me to still stay at her house and when I said I was getting a taxi home she said that if I went home the weekend would be spoiled?

I've not spoken to her for 10 days now. We usually speak everyday

It's kind of a relief tbh, I'm a people.pleaser with her and it's been difficult because she's the last remaining family member.... but I can't have DS growing up thinking he's less than, I fled DV amd raised them on my own for the last 8 years so they didn't grow up thinking his behaviour was normal, I can't let him grow up thinking my sisters behaviour is normal

I'm really angry at her and myself. I should of gone NC sooner but it's difficult isn't it.

I understand why everyone behaves the way they do and I understand they havnt done the inner work do be able to change.... some probably won't

But it still stings k knowing these people were supposed to be there for us and treat us kindly and they havnt

It is their losses though. When I'm not on the scene they turn someone else into the scapegoat....( hence everyone going on off NC over the years )

My mum actually stopped using mum set and turned to reddit as she recognised a post I'd made about her a few years back....

I don't think so really, one of my kids is logical almost to a fault. I admire the trait and reference it when a little logic is required. My other one is more emotional and I can find stuff to praise about that too.

I suppose if both you and one of your children are passionate about golf, for instance, you could spend more time with that child. But as you know, each child is a completely different person to the other and want different things from you.

I suppose with a more reticent child you'd have to be mindful not to overlook them, but that's easy done isn't it, to be mindful. Most normal people are like you and me and desperate to provide whatever emotional support is required - whether the child is like you or not. Even 😂 whether they like you or not.

Ha, that's a point isn't it? Normal parents don't even expect to be liked 100% of the time and just carry on regardless. No child wants to be told mars bars are not on the menu for breakfast, they won't get £100pw pocket money and, no they're not going backpacking through Syria.

Your sister is insane!!! Honestly I'd go apeshit if anyone laid a finger on my kids, no matter who they are. I'd stay nc with her if I were you.

I think that’s it really isn’t it. We are coming at parenthood from a completely different place. We don’t have the agenda or the thoughts or beliefs that they do. I’m here for them, not the other way around. I’m not here to be liked but to help them grow into someone who loves themselves and is secure and confident. I can’t understand how they think and that’s a good thing.

Well yes, parenting isn't a two way street is it? You have children because you want to have children, you're not doing them a favour by having them or raising them. It's a funny thing to want to do when you think about it 😂

Honestly having relationships with people with low empathy is just all kinds of “funny”. They come about it all so wrong. I’ve never really understood just how impactful it is to be raised by someone with low empathy.

Why do narcs never end up in therapy?(apart from the fact it’s not their fault) does their defence mechanisms protect their emotional health?

I think it is just because they actually believe they are better than everyone else and superior in every way. They think they exist to be admired and obeyed.

I don’t really buy into the idea that they have insecurities and a fragile sense of self. But if there is truth in it then they aren’t going to go to therapy because then they would have to reveal insecurities and vulnerabilities and that would be like the sun for a vampire. They would disintegrate if they had to admit they weren’t perfect and they had issues.

I agree that you will never get a narc into therapy - there's nothing wrong with them, everyone else is the problem - in their minds. But I DO think they have fragile egos. Have you ever seen one humiliated or belittled, but it has to be by someone they admire or preferably, intimidated by due to social status etc? Their bluster falls apart and you get a brief glimpse of the shame they feel at the very core of their ego. Shame runs very deep within and will have been caused by their own negative childhood experiences - but to operate and function they turn their own deep rooted inadequacy outwards into the world and use control and domination to rule. It doesn't happen very often and trust me, the person causing these feelings of shame to rise to the surface, will heavily pay as a narc will hold into grudges for a lifetime.