July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I’ve realised something the other day. We are the ones who walk away from toxic people. If we keep going back they will continue to just be toxic, they won’t be anything other then. A healthy person will be concerned if someone they loved backed away, these toxic folk they don’t care. They can get what they need from elsewhere as the kind of authentic love we offer has no value. It’s a strange way to get your head to think because we offer love genuinely. We are conditioned to want nothing so that what they have to offer goes under the radar.

it’s actually super healthy to let things go that aren’t good for you. That’s such a revelation for myself who’s hold on for dear life!

My one child absolutely doesn’t want to move and is very settled with good friends. I would never be forgiven, and they’ve told me that.
Its too late to go anywhere because of their ages. But it wouldn’t make any difference anyway as the wider family are prone to stalking and there’s also the internet. There is no escape, not with the type of Narcs we are related to.

It’s a situation I have to accept, but I have days like this where it gets overwhelming. I think more than wanting to move, I just don’t want to be here full stop. It’s not just because of the Narcs. I have a lot of problems outside of this.

@VWSC3i am sorry you are struggling i don’t remember all details of your story but i hope things improve for you.

If you aren't already, can you see a GP and talk to them about how you're feeling? It sounds like you're carrying such a lot. Difficult family is bad enough, add in other difficult life things (which you'd turn to family for support with, wouldn't you, if your family was normal) and it's more than anyone can be expected to manage alone. x.

I’ve been dealing with a lot for a very long time. I spent my childhood holding onto the hope that when I was an adult I could move out and finally have a happy life then - but life had other plans from the moment I hit 18. Life has been very cruel to me. I’ve had some therapy in the past - and they’ve all said that a lot of people wouldn’t still be standing if they had been through what I have in my life, that I’m strong. But I’m not really, I’m broken by everything and live my life with a fake smile on my face waiting for it all to be over.

It’s why when one of my distant relatives inserted herself into my life (I never saw her much when I was growing up), then smashed my life apart by spreading lies about me and driving wedges between me and people I cared about caused so much damage to my mental health and sense of safety. Despite everything, I had built a life that brought me some comfort and she took that from me. She also tried to drive wedges between me and my DH and us and our DC, but we pulled the shutters down and pushed her out of our lives at that point, but she makes her presence known and has flying monkeys inserted in most places we go.

But in short, in terms of GP, I’ve been there, done that. There isn’t really anything the NHS can offer me for my situation. I think mainly because most of my problems are fixed permanent problems and I have so many of them and they cover almost every aspect of my life. I’m on medication, but it’s like taking one paracetamol if you had your arm ripped off.

I get it. My childhood was a disaster, and adulthood has been a long string of what I can only describe as unfortunate events and when I've had therapy or talked to doctors and gone through the list, they just sit there looking a bit stunned. I've got chronic health problems (which studies seem to show are far more common in women who had the sort of childhood that I did). I am held together by a big box of medication and a lot of wishful thinking, and TBH there are plenty of times when it doesn't work. If I tell you that I rang my DH in tears from a public toilet cubicle yesterday b/c I was in agony and panicking and that this is something that happens quite regularly, it gives you the general idea. But I feel that keeping hold of hope and changing what we can to make things better for ourselves where possible is vital, because what's the alternative, really?

@VWSC3 I know you say it's not possible, but I would see if I could work towards moving away. Practically it is possible, but emotionally this is understandably challenging especially if one child says they will never forgive. I'm not in your situation, but there has probably been a lot of conditioning by your abusers that make you feel so powerless and trapped and therapy can help erode that. As an outsider, I think you'd be perfectly entitled to decide to move anyway as it's about your survival and the fallout with one child can be handled somehow (and with outside support). It wouldn't be cruel or selfish.

I obviously have no idea what your kids have been through, but if they grew up loved and supported I think the chances of a fallout that can never be fixed or forgiven go towards nil. Your child cannot possibly grasp how you feel (and they shouldn't) and you are entitled to make a decision for you all as a family even if lives get disrupted. Emotionally I can understand how you are feeling trapped and aren't in a position to just call the shots and decide to move, but taking all that away it is not reasonable make yourself suffer like that so the kids can stay put. It also means they have a mother that is very unwell and that comes with its own set of implications for them.

A good therapist could help remove that barrier and help you feel more empowered. That's the thing about therapy. We get to do things we never knew were possible.

@VWSC3 I also think you shouldn’t take what your child says too seriously. They don’t really know what they are saying they just saying it because they don’t particularly want to move. I told my parents I’d die if we moved because it was all I knew. But I didn’t die and there were more friends where we moved. I’m not really too sure what there is to loose as you risk them by staying close to narcs. I would have thought that moving would reduce the risk really in the scheme of things?

Thank you for the replies.

I know logically the answer would be to move, but I just don’t feel like I can do it to my children, especially because one child doesn’t want to. I’ve trawled through threads on here where people have asked for advice on moving away with young teenagers, and so many people have replied on those threads saying their parents moved them at those ages and it ruined their relationship with their parents, or they couldn’t fit in because they found kids in friendships since nursery, or they were bullied or went off the rails.

The reality is in the modern world moving away isn’t an escape anyway because of the internet. You are always findable even if you don’t use social media. Our families are the type who would track us down. They’ve hired private investigators on us even living here. The worst ones are all retired too so they have the time to watch and follow us. They are the boa constrictor type of Narcissist, they don’t let go until your dead.

The Narcs always win and whichever route I take they will use it to turn my kids against me. That’s who they are and that’s what they do, they drive wedges between people.

I don’t know how I quoted crazysnakes, that was a reply to all of you.

Feelings aren't facts, though, which I'm sure you've heard before, but it bears repeating. What comes through in your response is a lot of fear of things that haven't and might never happen. Feeling like you can't doesn't mean you can't. I echo @Twatalert - I know you've said you've had therapy before, but I wonder if it might help to talk to someone now, specifically to work through these feelings - they are a big weight to face alone. Even if you still make the same choice at the end, at least you would know you were making the choice and not the fear.

Moving is possible. It might not be easy, but it is possible.

Yes, some kids have a hard time if their parents move. But some kids have a hard time if they stay put in the same house with the same circle of schoolmates for their entire childhood, too. Posters on a forum are not necessarily the best sample. My DH moved country at the age of 10. Has a solid group of friends he made at school and uni here. He adapted and made it work because he had to.

Yes, it is possible to track down people who have moved away if you really put the effort and money into it. But don't underestimate the power of geographical distance. It makes a difference, it really does. The first time I stepped out of my front door in a place where I knew 100% that I wouldn't bump into a family member was the first time I felt like I could breathe.

@VWSC3 I think that this decision isn't made in the head. We just find all the things against it in our heads, but in the end I believe it is how we feel that keeps us stuck. I hope it's not offensive, I am just talking from my own experience here with trauma and abuse and it may or may not apply: you are obviously not able right now to go this step as it would totally overwhelm you emotionally, partly because of your conditioning and partly because of the ongoing abuse. Your system just can't go there, meltdown guaranteed, probably a ton of emotional flashbacks and what not. So it's best to stay stuck and it's very difficult to free ourselves from this. In a way it's protecting us from certain feelings or at least it did in the past, but there comes a point where this protective mechanism just keeps on causing damage. This is where therapy has helped me. it's not a miracle cure and it's difficult, but there come points at which I am suddenly able to do things I could never have imagined. Mostly because of what I believed in my head and in my body. I know you have been to therapy. I just wondered how the therapists have helped you.

You have built a brick wall prison for yourself with your own thinking which is extremely immovable and solid @VWSC3. You need to find a way to soften this thinking because it doesn’t sound like they are built on rational. You are in a solid brick wall maze, absolutely yes but there is a way out, but it sounds like a little bit of help would help definitely. I think we can see it but in a way we are stood on a tall tower looking down, it must feel so overwhelming for you.

Your last sentence is exactly how I feel every time we leave this town. We don’t go on holiday much, but when we do I feel like a bird that has just been released from its cage.

I am consumed with a lot of fear, you are right. It’s because every decision I have ever made has led me to where I am now. I don’t trust my own judgement anymore, which is probably why I’m giving my child’s opinion even more weight.

I’ve lost trust in people since my relative smashed my life apart, although I’m talking here about how I’m feeling I’m not sure I could open up to a person face to face where they have my name. Because my relative is so well connected (and literally has connections in every place we go) I would just end up thinking they might know her. It sounds paranoid to think she knows everyone - but it’s true that everywhere we go she knows somebody. My heart sinks when I see one of her flying monkeys walk in.

So it's pure fear that keeps you from seeing another therapist? Fuck these people have a strong hold over you.

You know you can have online therapy anywhere in the UK these days? I'm doing online and it's just as effective. You can literally pick someone 500 miles away (amongst other important criteria). Or pick someone in Australia, I'm sure it's possible. I don't think you need to because any therapist would have your best interest at heart, but if it helps why not.

I had a fairly positive or at least neutral meeting with my parents a few weeks ago, where everything went as fine as it can (emotionally abusive father who tends to lash out at my mother or even his GC at least once every time we meet for more than a few minutes). I've been feeling ok...like I often do...until something comes up again and makes me sad. Today it was that my own sibling sent a message to the family chat, where she asked in a cheerful tone when my father celebrates his birthday and what he wishes for present. It just seems obvious she doesn't share the anxiety I feel at all. She doesn't dwell on these things and for her it's somehow much easier to co-exist with our parents. She sits there planning how to celebrate my father and what to get him for his bday. Later my mum commented on the chat that let's get together to share our summer memories or whatnot. Yea, as if it's so fucking nice to sit with them and act that all is fine and that we are a happy family. But maybe my parents and sibling are, I'm just not part of that deep down. I could never imagine taking any kind of initiative for family gatherings. I know this probably sounds a bit crazy to be sad over such chat messages...but maybe someone with similar background will understand. Thanks for reading.

Your sister is in denial. The pretence and faux family jolliness is learned behaviour (from your mother) to facilitate the abusive male. Look up fawning, it’s a survival mechanism.
If she is subjecting her children to the same treatment then all she is doing is passing on the abuse cycle to her poor children.

@Lookingfornewdirection I agree that this is a massive case of denial. It's infuriating as they don't seem to be bothered nearly as much as we are. Unlike us they are somehow able to go along with it.

I have a narcissist at work (pretty sure) and people just follow him blindly and believe whatever he says. He's got some kind of authority in their heads that I cannot explain. I thought earlier how bizzare this is, but then I realised I used to be that person. For a long time I would think my mother was some kind of respect figure. She used to come home every day from work and moan about pretty much every colleague and tell stories that made her look like she was better, more right, more experienced, more sane than anyone there. In whatever happened she'd come out as the winner and made it sound as though everyone at work ended up agreeing with her eventually. I used to believe all this because they are the parents and even though I hated her since I was about 10 I believed this to be true. It's very hard to imagine that we can live in a false reality for a long time or even our whole lives. Your sister is brainwashed.

@VWSC3 if you're paying for private therapy they're not writing to anyone about you, in the way the NHS one would write to your GP. You can give whatever name and address you want. They'll never know you've lied. It's not illegal to use an alias so long as you're not trying to defraud anyone by doing so.

update on the suitcase of shit took out photos will go through them kept the pictures of all 3 of us in case I regretted it later not sure if dsis was trying to make a point of giving me them. Had a bit of a tiff with dh who wanted to dump the suitcase of shit on her drive so she could dispose of it because I saw that as giving her a reaction so it’s gone to the tip suitcase included as no where in the letter which is probably her way of saying her and dm have decided this is all you are getting does it say she wanted it back

i don’t know how i feel about the flying monkey who did dsis dirty work for her and brought it round she’s an educated woman in her 60s does a lot for dm but just believes dsis lies. Dh cousin who is also dsis best friend who knows everything but chooses to ignore it because she is reliant on dsis for company her social life and friendship group is with dsis friends she’s divorced she struggled with that adult kids moved out she is at dsis all weekend but sadly my dc have now fallen out with hers and they were very close

it was dd birthday the other day and I wondered if any of them remembered or thought of her obviously wasn’t expecting any cards or gifts and it came up on my facebook memories her 21st birthday party she is now 24 party obviously held at dsis house so she could play the doting generous aunt hostess role I obviously paid and we were never really given the choice to do anything else that was certainly the last big celebration now none of them speak to us except dh side of the family because of dsis lies

I was rude to my mother, but i did everything she wanted and asked for. I just kept making fun of her laugh and putting my hand to her face, she hated that. But i obeyed her, and did everything she asked. We should obey our parents and assist them as they age. Create good memories with your family.

I wonder if it's something to do with the estate? Proof, legally, that you weren't forgotten. The letter to be signed I thought was fishy but just stupid. Cut her out of the photo, she's a bitch. I kept some of my parents, there are some good memories but disposed of anything with siblings in.

@Spendysis Who knows what weird and disordered thinking was behind it. It’s guaranteed to be some weird control intention. To me it looks like she is showing to people her generosity. Something she could have done herself in the quiet is done with getting others involved for show. It always involves others.

Fuck off