July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I think what is hard for us to grasp about narcs is that they don't know that there's something wrong with them. They are unable to process that thought. Their brain protects them from it, almost like a panic attack - whenever there's any threat to the ego, they lash out almost like a reflex action, and the brain immediately provides a soothing reason why the problem is someone else and not them. It's not coming from the cortex, the conscious, intelligent part of the brain. Any threat to the ego = panic/rage = self soothing with thoughts of superiority and cruelty to others. Facing reality means mental breakdown (which happened to my father after my mother left him - it's hard to convince other people it's not your fault when your sat in a big puddle of your own mess and everyone can see it). This isn't to say that other people have to let themselves be abused because the narc in many ways can't help it - they are still dangerous people.

What I find hard to grasp is that despite the lack of empathy and insight and all the rest they are often surrounded by loads of people who like them.

Are they actually nice to people that they choose to be? Am I not liked simply because I can tell that the relationship is dysfunctional? Because I don’t think anyone is superior in life? Or because I’m quite small and humble in my needs. I don’t crave recognition and likes from people.

But it's superficial charm. The people that like them only see what the narc wants them to see; they'll be on their best behaviour and can be very charismatic to people they want to impress. It's all a facade, fake. And yes, because you're a truth see-er and haven't fell for the act, you'll be scapegoats as the trouble maker.

How do they know that I know?

I had a long-ish friendship with someone whose husband is a narc. We went on holiday together, hung out a lot. From the outside, you’d have seen me as one of those people who couldn’t see how awful he was. Initially that was true.

then I started spotting the inconsistencies in his stories. The self glorification. The put-downs aimed at other people, and then, the actual verbal abuse towards a small number of them. It was like the scales fell from my eyes. By then his wife was pregnant and I didn’t want to stop seeing her, which meant seeing them. It was unbearable actually. They moved away about a year later.

Don’t underestimate charm, and the superficiality of some friendships. But also, don’t underestimate how many people do see the narcissist, but are keeping an eye on their victims too.

Also watch closely and you'll see that there aren't any very close long term friends. There may be dinner party circuit friends or yoga friends or school gate friends. And they tend to fade away, probably when they've had a good close look at the narc and have thought 'hmm, not for me'.

Most people are subtle about fading away and the narc won't notice. My ex sister has a lot of friends but it's all very very superficial and transient. If anyone asked her for a favour she'd instantly hate them and drop them.

I'd guess most of us just cba with dinner party type friendships. It's about activities rather than connection. For me that's just noise.

So they just don’t put themselves in places where the charm doesn’t work?

Because you won't play their games.

I have a friend who displays narc traits. No real idea if they totally are one, it's possible. On the surface of it they have lots of people who think they're great. People they only show their nicer side too. But so much of it is bullshit. On the surface everyone loves them and they're adored wherever they go, helping others, and playing the victim, and having people fawn over them as a result. The number of people who actually bother to keep in touch with them though (and I don't include people who contact them when they want something), to check in and see how they're doing, or to share their good news with them, is very small. And of those, the majority are people who aren't very nice themselves, who live their lives in immoral ways and as a result have few friends themselves. Don't believe the hype. I liken it to celebrities who have mountains of adoring fans, but their private lives may be a total shit show where almost nobody is on their side or has their back

I think that’s it. Or they make sure people can be discredited.The one I knew would use his wife to deflect: she was very bubbly and devoted so if anything ever came up with a ‘non-believer’ she could be relied upon to nip it in the bud and then discredit the person.

Why would you want a spouse who talks about themselves and full of provado?

Discrediting dissenters is a big tactic.

A discerning person will think 'why is x saying such awful things to ME about y? Or, 'if x says such awful things about y behind THEIR back, what are they saying behind MINE'.

But they will make neutral noises like gosh, goodness, it sounds like you're having a tough time. I mean how many people want to correct slight acquaintances? I certainly cba.

I'd just say 'oh dear, I'm sorry to hear about that' if they're bitching about someone and mentally file away that the bitcher is not to be trusted.

And then the potential narc walks away from the exchange imagining that I've agreed with them, because I didn't challenge them directly and I don't really exist for them anyway. Thus the narc's ego gets fed again.

To hide behind, if the spouse is the star of every show then you can just do what you want in the background. If things go wrong, Billy big boots is the more visible target .

They probably haven't formed that thought, they'll just have decided that you're weird, mardy, awkward.

lol!!

So an insecure person in a way could use the narc for security or money or something? They fill a need for each other?

Because at first the narc seems amazing and you can't believe that they have chosen you. They tell you constantly that they are amazing and that other people think they are amazing too. They seem very confident,very charming. They promise you everything. No one understands you like they do. Obviously some people will smell the bullshit a mile away and the narc will fail to progress with them. But on others - low self esteem, maybe, just come from a bad breakup, grew up with a narcissist parent so low self esteem and a desire for a rescuer - the narcs initial play will work. And then once you're locked in, the narc side comes out, but you've already invested so much and you both said this was the best relationship ever and he said he loves you so much it hurts. You can't let it go, you have to fix it, you're so ashamed that you hurt this amazing person. The fact that you hurt them just confirms that you're shit and therefore lucky to have them in the first place. And then it's 20 years down the line, you're broke, and you don't know what's true any more, you're just trying to get through the day.

😂 True though isn't it? I'm labelled weird, secretive, awkward, difficult. I'm really not! 😅

My friend REALLY enjoyed her husband’s status. He was a big fish in a small pond and she was his protector. (I really regret that whole friendship!)

Oh I don’t despite I’m any of those things. I just don’t care.

Weird! I did fall for the charm in my ex husband but I did come to realise that it was all empty.

Oh, totally. Or someone manipulative or passive aggressive would be well suited to a Billy big boots. They get him to fire all the shots and get to look like wee willy winky in the background .

He was always good to her - or good enough - and she was certainly seeing it come apart by the time they left town. I know she knew he was a bad one but she had a little baby. Amazed she stayed with him but she’s now geographically isolated from her family. They certainly have the measure of him.

I suppose if the narc is not violent then the codependency can work well for some people.

Also if you young and inexperienced you really have no other experience to go on. They just make me want to vomit. I can’t stand show offs.