July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@Strawberrypjs I have come to the conclusion that some parents focus on what they can do for their children, and others focus on what their children can do for them. Those children are destined to always fall short, because they're children.

I feel a lot less angry at my partner and his brothers family. They don’t know any different. I was so very fortunate to have had an amazing dad whose world was us. He has set the bar really. I’ve tried to get this type of set up with my partners family, tried to work out the magic formula but they can’t give it. No matter what I do, they never will, they are selfish and disconnected and all about are self reliance. I will never make my world about them and I don’t respect that they don’t make there world about their kids and grandkids. So I’m out.

I would perhaps go to close the chapter. To say goodbye to what was and what should have been or could have been. You would never have to carry the regret of never doing it then for yourself. Not for your mum or for anyone else but for yourself. Nothing under the sun could make anything better so I would not be looking for any closure or repair just and ending.

Oh wow this is such a wake up post. This is my DM in a nutshell, where can we bring her , what can we do for her, what can we give her etc etc.

She wasn’t always as bad as this but her relationships are now all so transactional. It’s just awful

For your own sake go and show her the kindness that wasn’t shown to you. You will not regret it

I’m unsure of that notion of be the better person around narcs. It’s a totally logical and proper way to think but they manipulate these societal expectations. Like blood to a shark. Normal rules don’t apply.

@Strawberrypjs it's not about proving that you are better or that they are wrong. It's about accepting that it's an argument you can't win and being OK with that. If they want to think the world is a certain way, they're allowed. Let them get on with their warped ideas. It's not your job to change them.

You don't need to win the argument with a narc. Let them think they're superior, and you're stupid. Let them tell other people. It's fine. If other people want to believe them, it's fine. This doesn't mean doing what the narc wants. It means doing what you want and letting the narc get on with their own business.

Yep I agree. I don’t think I’m better, I just have my own values and beliefs and what family is to me. I think it’s made me feel better to accept what I believe instead of try and adapt to other people’s then feel rubbish.

I realised something the other day which has released a lot of anger for my own mum. I think my mum did love me an awful lot, she was just worried all the time and she couldn’t control her worry. I realised that I protected my mum as a child, because worry made her stressed and stress made her multiple sclerosis worse. But I couldn’t stop making mistakes, like coming home from college late because I was just growing up and being a normal kid. I was a perfect child really, very overly well behaved. But what happened was I hid everything and I was terrified of things not going to plan.I don’t know what you call this behaviour but I’ve always been someone more worried about I affect others. As a child I did have a lot of control because I could control what I told her and what I did to stress her. I think I’ve learnt to control too much.

@Strawberrypjs it's interesting you should say this, because over the past few days (with a lot of ruminating that i struggled to stop) I realised that I got a particular message from my mother during childhood. I figured out ages ago that the message about my father's behaviour was that you could never challenge or question it. After he'd had one of his tantrums the expectation was that we would all act like it hadn't happened. You were absolutely not allowed to have a problem with his behaviour (which was all your fault anyway). I saw someone say something about narcs pushing a reset button, and that's what it was like.

What I'm beginning to realise now is that the message from my mother was that I was not affected by what happened in that house and I was fine. I always had to act like I was fine with it, and so I did. I think I even convinced myself it was true. After all, my mother was giving me the message that I was fine, she didn't seem concerned about my endless upset stomachs, rashes, insomnia or the various self harming habits i developed (nail biting, pulling my hair out, selective mutism, constant stomach upsets, rashes, insomnia). I can see now that I developed a fawn response. I constantly tried to show how very normal and undamaged I was. It is all falling apart now because I've reached a stage where I can't hide the damage any more.

The weird thing is that deep down I think my mother hates me.

FWIW I think the behaviour you describe is a version of codependency, where you are constantly trying to control other people's moods by not causing upset. I did it to. Wanting to keep their mood good is an attempt at control that happens because if their mood was bad, we were punished for it and held responsible. But we're not.

Yes it has absolutely given me codependency issues. It was born out of trying to not make my mum sick. But her worry and her inability to control her worry was her issue to resolve. Instead we all tip toed around her. I’ve done this all my life, afraid to be the cause of people’s upset but feeling resentful to them. It’s a shit dependancy. I was never punished but I watched my mum get bedridden from stress so I wanted to be as still as a lake. But you can’t live like this. I’m learning to let the ripples show now and it’s ok to make noise and take up space and have needs.

I wonder if she hates you, I don’t know, to me she sounds very lost. I think hate is how it feels but it might not be what she thinks. From how you describe her I think she is very lost and very consumed and you are just collateral damage. Hate is how we personalise other people’s internal chaos.

My ex would wake up fine the next day and I’d be there, pushing, burying, swallowing all that emotion, fawning was the only thing that worked so it’s what you do but it made me physically ill now forever. It’s not meant as a life long state.

@Strawberrypjs it's interesting to think about the roll of illness - my mother was ill for about 6 months a few years after the divorce. She fully recovered but the message that she was to be protected from stress at all costs so she wouldn't be ill again was laid on really bloody thick for years afterwards. She still tries to milk it now. I'm ashamed to say that I definitely acted like a flying monkey a few times during this period, always eager to step in and carry any load so she didn't have to. I thought I was doing the right thing.

The reason I say I think my mum hates me is because I think she wanted the people pleasing version of me to be who I really am but it wasn't, it was only ever a collection of survival techniques. If I was still fawning and desperate to fix/please she would much prefer it. As it stands, I'm just a reminder of a horrible mistake.

I think the thing is that after a narc has had a tantrum, they do wake up the next day feeling loads better. It's like taking an emotional laxative after a week of constipation. One big clear out and you feel great.

Fuck them! We aren’t here to please anyone. I/were not born to be anyones pleaser! We free spirits.

I no longer care if people don’t like me because I refuse to live up to whatever messed up assumption they have made of me. I’m nice and I’ll be nice if I want to to people who are genuine or simply because I want to. I can’t imagine being a golden child. I can’t imagine how it must feel to constantly HAVE to live up to the reputation given to you. To never be allowed to be messy and makes mistakes.

There's so much on here that resonates with me and I have found good tips for reading. @Ccrazysnakes @Northwentsouth - I've read what you have written about guilt and will definitely look into FOG. I bear such guilt towards my parents and I honestly don't know how or why I have come to feel like this. I tried therapy 10 years ago and the therapist talked to me about not owing my parents anything. Rationally I have managed to keep this thought on mind, but the guilt is still very much there. I wrote here earlier that I had a difficult visit at my parents a couple of weeks ago, where my father was behaving unpleasantly - and after which I had some discussions about him with my mum over text. Few days from this she tried to call me, but I just couldn't face talking to her at that moment like all is normal and didn't answer. I also didn't call her back over the next days. As the days passed and I hadn't called her back, I started to feel more and more guilty about it. To the point that I was imagining what she is up to and if she is sad that I don't call. At the end just calling would have been easier, but I also don't like doing that out of guilt. I think one source of my guilt is that I'm just sad for my mum that she has spent her life in that kind of shit relationship when she didn't have to. Sad - but also angry that she did because I feel like doing so she has forced me to live in such a dysfunctional family. And even as an adult I feel trapped in this shit. Trapped, because she made that choice instead of just divorcing decades ago. Whenever I read threads on here where a mum is told off for exposing her kids to abuse, it makes me sad and angry, because it seems like almost all of the posters realize it is the mum's job to remove her kids from that - my mum didn't.

Somebody here also wrote about how their father was Mr Nice outside but horrible at home. This also resonates to me. I hate it how people always seem to just assume that everyone comes from a happy family. Saying things like "oh must be so lovely living so close to your parents" etc. When my ILs met my parents for the first time, they eagerly said to me afterwards how lovely my parents are.

I'm slowly taking time to read this thread. Isn't it just easier to be occupied by your daily busy life and keep these things somewhere buried at the back. But it doesn't help because sooner or later something will pop up, and it all comes back causing anxiety and sadness again and again.

I think fault falls solely at the feet of the person doing the abusing. It is never the fault of the women for the behaviour of an abusive man or other way around. Being on the other end of abuse is extremely traumatic. When you are in this situation you don’t see things clearly, it’s very warped. If you leave will you be homeless, will they take the kids out of spite, will they stalk or hurt you of kids, how will you protect them when they get unsupervised access. Fear could make a person down play the harm, ignore it, pretend it’s not happening. I think it’s extremely complex. It doesn’t make any of the consequences less on the kids and social services would remove a child from a mum who protected an abuser even if they were a loving mum.

It's parentification. You were the child, she should have looked after you, protected you from her worries and symptoms etc as much as possible. Instead she was incapable of doing that, so you ended up being in the role of the parent, the one doing the looking after and she was like the helpless child.

It's taking on responsibility for things you're not responsible for (such as other people's emotions and emotional reactions to events) and once learned, it becomes your default and follows you into adulthood. As far as you're aware, this is how the world works, because this is how your world has always worked.

Hence your attempts to make everything "right" with his family. You've been taking responsibility for everyone's happiness and trying to fix everything, by trying to get them to change. Since their behaviour is the source of the problem, this part kinda makes sense, but it's logic based on twisted thinking. A futile exercise anyway (they'll never change) and one you can let go of, because the entire world's happiness isn't your responsibility and it never was. A bad atmosphere, someone being rude to you, two other people at loggerheads over something - it's not your problem to fix. It's ok to feel that you dislike a situation and to remove yourself from it, leaving others to deal with however they feel about the situation (and your removal of yourself from it) by themselves.

Thanks i should go and see her or i will probably regret it. I think as i at one point didn’t know where she was and then knew she was at dsis so i couldn’t see her i just kind of accepted i wouldnt see her alive again and made peace with it and its now thrown me

dm was once a strong independent woman she had to be she was widowed young left with 2 young dc there were differences in how we were treated as adults mainly because I am not a financial nightmare like dsis so she got gifted tens of thousands of pounds i didn’t and i didn’t ever complain. They had a bit of a weird relationship as both single dsis reliant on dm to do errands dm would have a strop if for example dsis went out on nye dsis didnt tell dm she had a boyfriend despite being in her 40 /50s she planned to marry him when dm passed but i think that is over now as he was only after dsis money that she didn’t have dm funded him as well not that she was aware his food shops were added to hers

I don’t know if I am being naive to dm involvement or blaming her for dsis actions but part of me wants to scream why didn’t you say anything was off when police and social services interviewed you?

My parent hates me now that I'm not playing their games crazy snakes. I used to think they loved me. Now I think it was that they loved what I did for them (provided them with things to gossip about, I wasn't allowed privacy so I overshared everything about mine and others lives, because it was expected and there were negative consequences for not complying). I don't think they ever truly loved me. You don't treat someone you love the way I was treated. Once I started keeping my privacy, there'd be flashes of anger and hatred, barely concealed hostility whenever I'd shut down any attempts to get me to overshare. I still find that quite shocking.

Yes this is the word I was looking for. I felt this responsibility overwhelming and I still feel this feeling today and everyday. I guess it’s the hangover like you say. I am responsible for everything and it’s a very heavy feeling that I am quite afraid of. I am always responsible for making sure that all of my feelings are kept down. I hate the fact that I can feel a room and then I have to deal with how this makes me feel. I don’t do this with my partner anymore. He is actually quite good at being stable and he doesn’t ask much of me emotionally. It is nice to not have to read a partners mood because his is very level. I have absolutely tried to fix this weird feeling with the in-laws because it’s so bloody uncomfortable to be in. But as I’ve come to learn it’s not fixable, just like the relationship with my ex. My mum funnily enough now hides things from me to protect me. But as soon as I get a wiff of something not right with her, eg she is limping them all the worry floods me. I can’t cope with worry at all, especially around heath.

My mother encouraged major oversharing too. In hindsight I look back and cringe and wonder how she ever thought that was appropriate. I've emphasised to my kids that I'm always here if they need to talk about something but that they are also entitled to privacy and don't have to share if they don't want to, that privacy is a basic thing to expect.

I can see now that there was a role my mother expected me to play, and when I was a child, I did it because that's how I got positive feedback (or at least not negative feedback). But as soon as I took a step back and realised that I didn't have to do any of it any more, our relationship fell apart because me as helper was the relationship.

You can learn to cope with it.

In my family things were not extreme. My mum could have left. She could also have left when I left home and she was only 50. I fantasize sometimes about how different things would be if she did leave even at that time. She could have a much less strained relationship with me, and most importantly she would have an environment to offer to her GC where atmosphere would be relaxed and friendly. She might have a partner who seems to actually like and appreciate her. I do believe that if my parents weren't together, even my relationship with my father would be hugely better. I wouldn't have to stress about his behavior (because he doesn't generally lash out and sulk at me now that I'm adult, he'll do it at my mum which ruins the atmosphere and hugely triggers and saddens me), and could probably meet in much more positive terms. But no. It won't happen now anymore that they are in their 70s. I do still think my mum could leave and secure herself a calm old age without having to deal with his shit. But she probably believes it's too late and she would never leave him now - now that he is not in such a good health anymore etc. She has chosen to just deal with him. And making everyone deal with their dynamics. I do have sympathy for her and probably a lot of my guilt comes from this. I'm also sad for my father, i really am. He can't be a very happy man and he will not be able to make any changes in his whole lifetime. He would probably be benefited also if he hadn't been enabled his whole adult life.