July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I just avoid. If it feels off I just avoid. Which means I do avoid an awful lot of things. I need to feel relaxed otherwise I’ll shut off or I go into this stupid over talking anxious nonsense mess. I’ve realised lately that I’ve pretended I’m ok with many things in my life that I’ve never honoured.

This is an anxiety, nervous system problem, it's not permanent or who you are, it's a learned response. And it can worked on and it can get better. I know because I am dealing with exactly the same problem.

I do try. But I’m still affected in the presence of narcs. I just try and stay away. There is no benefit from visiting. They make me pissed off! I want to out them all but I know at the same time it’s pointless. Avoiding seems like the best idea in this situation so that I don’t get side tracked.

I don't visit my family, that's how I have dealt with it because it is the better path for me right now. I feel like every time I try I get kicked. I just don't have the bandwidth for it. Keeping myself well so I can prioritise my kids and husband is my goal. At the same time, I know my stress response spills over into other parts of my life and that's where I'm trying to make improvements (I have health anxiety that very easily becomes overwhelming). I accept that I probably could work on the anxiety my mother causes me and make visits at least bearable.

But I don't want to.

Yes I need to protect the precious energy and keep my brain from them. Which has worked as I’ve had space to make new friendships and I’m happier with myself. I need to keep to the parts of life that make me stronger. I’m too fragile for these narcs currently. They are like robots, they never ever stop and they will continue with or without me.

I resonate with this hugely. I have also come to the conclusion that the way I was treated, and continued to be treated into adulthood, is not love and to suggest otherwise (looking at my narc sister) is outrageous. I suppose we can be grateful that we have at least recognised this, as painful as it is. You’re right, it’s shocking.

.

I’m back with an update on my stalking situation, the last 10 days have been incredibly hard. I’m not sure why I’m writing this but it helps to get it down. In the last number of days the following things happened:

1. my father was walking through my estate, I almost bumped straight into him but changed direction, almost running across a green. My reaction says it all, I can’t bear to even ignore him and walk past, my reaction is that visceral.
2. a couple of days later my kids, out playing on the green, and father appears again. Since the last time this happened we told the kids to just come straight home and they did but not before my youngest said, “who are you?”, he was wearing a baseball cap so he didn’t recognise him. Then my eldest reiterated to him to follow him and to go home. My father calls after them to come back. Thankfully they didn’t. He’s insane isn’t he? I actually feel so much disgust and embarrassment that my father could behave in this way. I hate him, I really do.
3. Just to finish off that upsetting day I receive a card in the post from my mother with loads of rubbish written in it. No ownership over her behaviour, it’s all been done out of “love” 🤮 she didn’t “take sides” with my sister (it’s the only way she knows how to operate) and she hates that there’s “tension” when she “bumps into” (ehh, I think she means when she stalks me) on my walks and we should be able to say hello 😧. €20 for my kids included.
4. a one line email I discovered the next day in my spam (while looking for something, never going in there again) from my mother saying, “I’m always here for you if you need me”, that was borderline funny.

ive started to compile a table of the harassment and I have about 12 events over the last 6 months, never mind what I’ve experienced over the last 4 years. I’m working on getting everything recorded.

please go easy on me, I know what I need to do but it’s very hard. I know I need to go to the authorities, or even a solicitor, but right now it’s overwhelming. My husband is encouraging me to take these steps but they seem so formal, so public and so exposing. Im beyond mortified to have to take these steps but I know my kids safety comes above any embarrassment I feel. I absolutely hate them for how selfish, creepy and inappropriate they act, they don’t give two shits about the impacts of their behaviour on my kids, the grandkids the claim to love (that’s the best laugh of all), the only important thing is that their demented needs get met.

this affects my sleep and cptsd and it feels I’ll never be free of these freaks. All this behaviour does is confirm how essential it is to remain NC, they aren’t safe to be around in any capacity.

This is what mines doing. In a way it's the greatest gift to grow beyond my own long term infantalisation. I'm forced to sort out everything alone. Which is a good thing really. Severe learned helplessness hasn't been good for me.

The lack of sharing information, the not asking for help or taking up non stop offers to only be mindfucked, results in both zero interest there or anger as you too describe.

Mine has snapped a few times in anger on rare face to face encounters. Usually brings my sibling into it. It's insane I should have to explain why non stop abusive appalling behaviour eventually became a problem for me ffs.

When my mother says ' love you so much' by text for no reason, I now think, which handbook did you locate that communication from. Everything is like an automoton, utterly non human, which is really unsettling I won't lie.

Mine has not too long ago played a game with code via my son to convey a message about inheritance. No I'm not paranoid, this is how horrible my one is. My child popped over, came in with some old coins and relays a story granny tits just told him that all the coins she owned would be for him and not for me and he needed to let me know it's definitely not for me. She was drunk doing the usual horrible stuff.

The way my life has moved, inheritance will do bugger all to help me so I can let that go.

For anyone reading these threads; the bloody inheritance will always be the final tool, the ultimate weapon these parents will use. Once you can let that go you're halfway there.

What's frustrating for me is my dad died when I was a teenager. So much of his money enabled what my mum now has. I have to simply not think about it.

@junebugalice ah this is so awful for you. What planet are they on. They have no life, no hobbies, no substance it sounds like. They are actually like fucking ghouls.

My advice is to go to a solicitor first and talk it through. I would probably actively look for a female. I really feel we are statistically more likely to connect with the human element here where it's another woman.

The reason I say to go there first is because it will all stay confidential. I liaised with a lady solicitor about something recently and she was great. She also clearly had personal experience like my problem.

If you're upset ( of course you bloody are with these two), I believe there's a risk you could communicate things the wrong way with the authorities. I believe there's a tendency to think WE are the problem because parents are to be loved and respected. The bias and judgement, I believe, is a problem for us.

When you talk it through with a solicitor you can explore every option, which might include them sending a letter. You can feel more control over this which will help bring you to a place of feeling less upset and then in a better position to communicate with any authorities.

You are absolutely normal to be upset to be clear. I'd be enraged over this. I do get enraged severely over things my end. It's the accumulation of years of it and this ongoing entitlement to you and your loved ones.

People just do not understand this, I have realised and will always try seek to see it from the parents ' pov - as if they're the bloody victim. A solicitor isn't going to be like that I believe.

I think they hide behind roles and socially expected stereotypes. There is a reason we downplay it to ourselves and try and live with what is ab absolute horror, we know we won’t be believed because the actual reality is bloody ridiculous. If feels ridiculous to hear our own brain think through it so I can understand how it must sound. The only solace I’ve ever had is from someone who’s experienced the madness. Back when I had my IDVA she told me that she used to visit poor women who had to be institutionalised because they went mad over this.

I find this crazy that they live amongst us, hiding in plain sight. I don’t even think they realise they are different and we aren’t all like them. When they are your parent you’ve no chance. Not being able to emotionally connect I am realising is so damaging. I really do see why my partner connects emotionally to hoards and his bro work. They’ve no idea about healthy emotional connections to people.

@junebugalice This sounds so hard. I can totally understand the shame you feel in having to go to the officials - it certainly isn't easy. But once you have, your life might get so much easier.

Many here seem to have gone nc with their parents and I admire them for having the guts to do that. For me this is not an option as it isn't what I want actually. I just want to learn to deal with them without the way they are making me upset and stressed so often. Sometimes I do think that if my parents were really just awful, going nc would be the best and easiest option. But as they are still half decent and there is something positive there as well - i just don't feel like that's the way to go.

I came across this thread last night and it could not have come at a better time. I woke up feeling relieved this morning, like I had finally found a useful resource to help me.
You are all such wise, kind, inspiring people. I can relate to so much of what has been discussed here. To find people who understand, and who have been through similar, feels like hitting the jackpot.
My abuser was my older sister. She is a violent Narcissist, a master manipulator and lives with chronic resentment. I was the family scapegoat and her punch bag. My childhood and teenage years were hell. Our parents were emotionally unavailable and lazy, which added fuel to the fire. It’s almost like she used to hypnotise people; with the exception of a small handful of people, including 1 shared DB, they all believed I am some monster.
I used to be more resilient but hit a wall about 5 years ago and was just shattered by it all. I was/am so bitter about all that she did to me, why she was allowed to do it and so sad to think my life could have been different. I could have had decent friendships, done better in school and reached my potential. She took that from me by convincing me that I was worthless, physically knocking any confidence that I had out of me, humiliating and degrading me my whole childhood. She is a ‘community’ person so is adored by all. It kills me whenever someone tells me how great she is.
I’m trying to push on. I have had lots of counselling. I am mastering gray rock (it drives her wild!) but I hope to be completely no contact eventually. I have 2 young DC and I am determined that they get the best version of me possible.
I am just so pleased that I found this thread. You are all amazing. I wish all of you all of the luck in the world

@JoyDivision79 great point about the female solicitor, I think that’s what I’ll look for. Yes, I feel going to a solicitor is something realistic that I could aim for, the formality of the guards is too much at this point. My husband wants to type a bland Chat GPT created letter and send it to them, expressly stating they have no permission to stalk our minor children, to instill fear in them. I’d love to send the letter but Christ knows how they would respond. And yes to the public perception of parents, people are either too afraid or too thick to scratch beneath the surface to even consider the possibility that some parents are toxic, it’s awful.

@Lookingfornewdirection i completely understand not wanting to go NC, especially if you feel your parents are half decent. From my own perspective I tried for about 3.5 years (after beginning therapy and understanding what I experienced was abuse) to maintain a LC relationship, I grey rocked to the point that I was betraying myself in the process and my parents and siblings continued to be abusive. I was the one doing all the work, the changing and adapting to their disturbed personalities and I was the one paying the price. I did LC until I couldn’t anymore. Hopefully your parents aren’t as extreme as mine and you can make LC work for you, thankfully there’s lots of support online to help.

@thetimeiznow your parents should have protected you from this. It would have been their job.

and btw, I also feel like I haven’t reached my full potential for example careerwise. Because of self esteem and confidence issues caused by my childhood.

@junebugalice yes, LC and grey rock is the plan. And to simply learn to accept the situation, not being disappointed and sad every time something happens and work on my own shame. I wrote earlier that I’ve just now realized I carry such shame about my family. Maybe that is the root cause of the general shame and feeling of inferiority that I have so often. I also have quite significant issues with intimacy in relationships - which probably is the reason I have ended up with my DH who isn’t so much of a deep talker type. Which I actually miss. Would be interesting to hear if others here have struggled with these type of issues in adulthood.

I'm quite sure a solicitor would easily be able to send a letter. They could quote relevant legislation and hopefully shock them into buggering off. From your husband it carries less weight.

The problem is cost of course. It could be a few hundred. Yet, you are starting a formal record of them and their behavior. Would I trust the Police at this stage with this type of abuse? No, because they don't seem to get it. The solicitor letter would be a starting point and you could then even go to the Police with that as supporting information. They'll take you more seriously then, knowing you have engaged a solicitor.

It feels really sad that you can't just move away. I know it's not right when you and the kids are so established. All you want is for the ghouls to get a hobby, get a life and move on. They're deranged, they can't without force at this point move on it seems.

@JoyDivision79 thats it Joy, they are just relentless, like rabid dogs with a bone they just won’t give up. That’s the level of entitlement that I’m dealing with and also that fact that I think one or both of them might be sociopathic, they’re just so sinister. Thanks for all your advice, and I agree that a solicitors letter carries more weight.

This is something I've been wondering for a while...

Do they know there's something wrong with them? Do they know how cruel they are or so they genuinely think everyone else is the problem?

There's got to be a reason they make us the scapegoats? Surely they know what that is?

If anyone's ever had a glimmer of reasoning from their narc parent I would love to know what's going on.

I don't wonder about glimmers of reasoning from my narcissistic mother but I have often wondered about this from my enabling father. I wonder whether he has/had moments of clarity. Perhaps an inkling that something is off and that maybe I am not the problem.

My mother I don't think is able to. She lives on another planet. I think she knows she did something that made me go NC, but would not understand the full extent of it simply because they have no concept of healthy relationships and therefore don't see the level of wrongness. In her mind she probably thinks we had a few arguments and off I went. That's how they operate though: they keep away from people, always find something wrong and cut people off quite easily. They wouldnt do the whole 'i don't feel safe with them-they don't respect my boundaries analysis' I do lol. Apart from GC brother I don't think anyone is right enough for them. They gossip about everyone and the confirmation bias seems to do wonders for them.

Yeah I also think with narcissistic mothers that there's a huge amount of misogyny so they rely on misogynistic stereotypes for their daughters e.g. 'theyre too sensitive '/'too hysterical' etc to excuse their abusive behaviour

I think they heavily rely on stereotypes of what people should be. I don’t think they can actually see you at all. As in the things that make you unique. They don’t seem to be able to see what makes you tick or why or why an experience shapes you. They are a mother and think they act a certain fixed way of how a mother behaves in their head. They are a father etc a DIL and think they should behave a fixed way. They don’t seem to have any concept of the uniqueness of humans. I guess neither does a toddler, all they know is it’s all mine and it all goes my way. I guess they view the world very abstract. Which is terrible for a child as they won’t see them and stereotype them into a role. I think that’s part of the reason I don’t gel well with MIL. I’m older, was 35 when met them. I’ve lived many different experiences so have developed already. I’m stubborn, I have my own views etc. I won’t fit anyone’s view of a mum or daughter as I’m me. I’m of no use, I admire none just because, without justification. She can’t mould me into someone who makes her special so I’m othered.

Hope you’re ok me joining- I was directed here from Elderly Parents thread where I realised that my parents have always been difficult. Will read the thread before posting but want to say how brilliant some of these threads are. Definitely always felt I was the problem.

Welcome to the “those pesky darn children of narcs who just refuse to be controlled anymore thread”!