July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Yes, you probably always will have some cptsd. And that's just simply a fact but we can live our own lives in our own ways.

So I think that if we can do something quite ordinary, given the poor foundations, it's superstar.

@Twatalert you are a huge inspiration.

I've had minor intwinement again with my mum. I know what she is. She performs continually yet it's familiar. It has been minimal interaction as she sees how much I see now and I'm useless to them if I don't feed any supply.

It's all so horrible.

Is there any part of you that misses any ' nice' part of your parents. My mum is very covert and it's therefore confusing. Dead inside is however the reality when it comes to her.

Thanks. It doesn't feel real to be an inspiration but I'm going to try and own this compliment.

I don't miss anything about my parents. Even the good things aren't real to me now. I do feel sorry for my father at times and for my brother but I don't miss anything about them.

I managed to grey rock a walking red flag of a coworker for seven months now. He triggers absolutely everything in me and something about him is very very off. He keeps trying to engage with me (more like patronising, controlling me) and I just say 'okay' or don't respond. It's very easy for me now. I often wonder if I would be able to do that with the people who raised me. I doubt it. I don't know.

@Northwentsouth The guilt...yes, totally relate. I'm also new to the thread. I feel like at in my 40s I really need to start working on the heavy baggage from my childhood. My father was emotionally abusive. He would rage at us, give the silent treatment for days on end. And then he could also be nice and funny at other times. But all in all I think I've always been afraid of him and kind of walking on eggshells around him to this day.

I now have two primary age kids and this brings so much more complexity. On one hand, they should be allowed to build a relationship with their GF, on the other hand having them spend time with him gives me great anxiety. The thing is, he (according to my mum at least) really wants to see his GC and looks forward to it. But almost always he will at some point lash out, raise his voice or just get sulky over something totally minor. It doesn't even need to be directed at the children, but he often lashes out at my mum while the kids are there. He'll just end up angrily shouting at her over something totally stupid - and a minute later they will just crack on. I'm not sure how much the kids actually mind, but for me even the idea of this gives stress. Am I overreacting?

Recently we spent a few days with my parents and he was on his usual moods. I honestly can't act all social and cheerful around him a lot of the time, sometimes I even struggle looking at him in the eye. And the kids are kind of shy and for that reason don't always answer so much when they are asked questions etc. Afterwards I heard that he was angry that we were "not talking to him". Angry at the kids as it seems! They are 4 and 6! I feel like he was punishing little kids for not acting as he hoped for - while they were actually well behaved, just shy or so. This makes me so down and sad. How could I ever spend any proper time with him and the kids if they make him mad even when behaving very nice. And of course I feel guilty, like was I myself really too rude....he's old and kind of pathetic after all.

And the fact that he is sometimes nice is a real mind fucker in a way. Actually he is probably friendly or ok most of the time - but at some point sooner or later he will always lash out without fail.

The saddest thing maybe is that my kids after all enjoy time with the GPs and are asking when we go back. I feel myself now like I cant even think about it.

How are you others dealing with relationships between abusive parents and your children?

I realized something very clearly over the past few days. I am ashamed of my parents - ashamed that this is what my family is like (emotional abuse, enabling it etc) instead of a nice and normal family. I'm ashamed to tell to anyone really what my father is really like. Will look into if this is typical of adult children of abusive parents.

@Lookingfornewdirection I can relate to you in regards to the shame of having come from a family like that, I do too. I find it embarrassing that my parents have zero emotional intelligence and were very abusive to me in childhood. My life now is so far removed from theirs, it’s like I don’t belong to them at all. My kids were similar ages to yours when I started this process of being honest with myself about my upbringing and who my family really are. This was 5 years ago and I’m NC with my parents and sibling the last 1.5 years. One thing I couldn’t cope with was the idea of my kids spending time with my abusive, ignorant, homophobic, racist etc etc parents, some of these toxic traits were subtle and others were very obvious but I would look at my two innocent kids faces and know, with certainty, that my parents could bring nothing of value to their lives. I understand that walking on eggshells feeling with regards to your father and I used to see glimpses of his anger with my kids, nothing like I did as a child but it was there, simmering away. It sounds like you’re on the precipice of digging into your experiences and I would strongly advise therapy, I have found it to be so helpful especially when it comes to rebuilding yourself after a lifetime of abuse.

You are doing brilliantly. It's a very difficult thing to do, stepping away from abusive parents. It is so much easier not to, for things to carry on as they always have. It's easier to let yourself be abused than to refuse to tolerate it because when one person says no, it changes all the relationships in the web.

The truth is that I let the relationship die - my mother was all over the eldest like a rash (to the point of being a bit weird, in hindsight). She was the exact opposite with the youngest, no interest at all. I refused to let him be treated like a second class citizen so I stopped facilitating contact with the eldest. Not long after that my mother and stepfather moved abroad. My mother made a massive fuss about visiting, so I took the kids and she was so awful that I came home early. Drunk the whole time, left my 3yo by the pool on his own, complained about the kids constantly. They'd decorated a bedroom specially for eldest, full of toys and special furniture, youngest got a bed in a room that had unpacked boxes in it. Nothing special for him. I was done. I didn't go again. She would periodically invite eldest to stay with them, but never youngest. I wasn't prepared to let her damage the sibling relationship so I just let the relationship go. It wasn't difficult.

looking don't expose your DC to him and his emotional abuse. Them seeing him raging at other people is harmful to them. Him raging at them is harmful to them. Who GAF what he wants? He doesn't own you or your DC. You don't have to appease him. If you expose your DC to this, you're an enabler of his abuse of them. If he wanted a relationship with them he should have been a nicer person, someone people want to have relationships with. They don't need a relationship with an abuser. Your primary job as parent is to protect your DC. Don't throw them to the wolves to avoid getting bitten yourself.

This is so true. The whole web ripples. And that part is an added stress and struggle. You realise you have to let the whole lot go and accept a likely collective demonisation of you for breaking away.

On trying to break away, well I have successfully stepped well outside - I see that many in the collective, even my son, see me as the problem. Me being the target of abuse at an ongoing insipid emotional level for years is normalised to all in the web.

I can't even imagine what a healthy system feels like. I see TV films and wonder if that's what it's like.

I do believe many families are very dysfunctional and I know we aren't alone however. I didn't consciously realise most my life so many will be in that same state without ever realising why it's all so difficult for them in it.

@Lookingfornewdirection I'm curious what your mother is like. How do you relate to her and what does she say and do in response to your father's behaviour?

It's likely your mum is the one most keen to have the GC in her life, so probably will excuse your dad's behaviour. She is an enabler it appears - to tell you that the obligation is on you to bring the GCs and in effect tolerate his behaviour because it's your duty almost. That's what this sounds like.

Shouldn't a loving mum/ GM, apologise for the exposure to this man and possibly seek to hold him accountable. I understand that she might be trapped with minimal options available in the relationship.

I find that mothers can be the most manipulative and coersive when it comes to the damage caused. Especially with our own children. Your dad sounds quite overt - you know what he is, you know what you're getting ( not much). It's then clear to the kids and they can act accordingly ( eventually won't be interested in him).

To want to go back, I ask, what is the draw? Why do they want to go back. It makes me question your mum's role.

My own is incredibly covert, manipulative, performs excellently in front of people. My teen is drawn to her of course. She treats him like a prince ( for the 5 minutes she can be arsed), no boundaries at all, no accountability. Dangerous.

@junebugalice I relate to alot you say. With distance and NC to exceptional LC, I see more clearly things that actually disgust me. For me, they were normal on a conscious level most this time.

Knowing my son was exposed for so many years is gross.

My choices were so limited due to seriously ill health, yet, it really guts me tbh. I look at it as better than no one family wise to help. The impact is however apparent. My teen is certainly part of the web even though I have distanced him from it intentionally.

I hear you @JoyDivision79 i could write a book on the abusive/toxic/deranged things that I normalised, in fact it’s something I was only discussing with my therapist recently. That’s one of the things that really angers me about this whole shit show, because of their abuse of me in childhood I went out into the world thinking that toxic and disrespect was normal. It’s actually a miracle I don’t have a serious drug addiction or worse mental health, a therapist told me that years ago. I have plenty of scars though and bad habits so I definitely didn’t emerge unscathed, by a long shot.

In relation to your son, he’s still young, he has plenty of time to have his eyes opened to his toxic grandmother. I always knew on some level my family were insane but I was 35 before waking up. You are modelling appropriate behaviour with LC, he is seeing that. It might not resonate with him now but when he’s older and looks back he will see what you have done. You’re modelling self respect and a refusal to conform to the notion that “family is everything”. You’re doing all you can in difficult circumstances, please cut yourself some slack.

@JoyDivision79 My mum is nice with the kids. She plays with them, is patient and nice. My own relationship with her is strained as well, but I have no real trauma related to her as such. I would trust my kids with her alone without doubt.
When it comes to my dad, she pretty much ignores his behavior or just shrugs it off. Then they just crack on as if nothing happened. She apparently talks to him about these issues to an extent, but she has said it herself that he will not change. She thinks he has mental health issues he cannot help, and she lately actually said it would help him if I acted more considerate and basically nice towards him.

When we were last with them, all the kids basically saw was that my dad was sitting alone most of the time and not joining in. I saw him looking sulky, grumpy and lashing out a few times at my mum. He made a few passive aggressive comments at my mum about allowing the kids things he didn't think she should have allowed, which the kids heard. It sounded like he just wanted to say something critical of her, or somehow be the boss or so.

He did those things when my DH wasn't in the room. He is very covert. He will act nice around certain people. I can sometimes tell he is trying to maintain this when I'm there as well, but it never lasts. I just had never realized before that his behavior would also (sometimes) be about him being mad at me and even the kids for not being nice enough to him. I always thought it was about needing to subjugate my mum.

They have theoretically a nice environment which the kids like. Garden, treats, nice granny. It is so sad that my mum makes it all "nice" but the atmosphere to me is never just relaxed no matter what. Like she is pretending to maintain this nice grandparents house. I think she is a bit blind to the situation and doesn't fully see how its not normal.

They have two older GC as well and at least one of them actually seems to have a nice relationship with them both. My sibling has allowed their kids to spend time with them despite these issues. This does not make it easier for me. But I do know that my dad has lashed out to the other GC as well in the past.

@Ccrazysnakes You did the right thing, absolutely. Good for you and your kids. I cannot understand how any grandparent could behave like this.

@SamAndAnnie Thanks for your comment and brutal honesty. I hadn’t thought of myself as an enabler before but in a way I guess I am. I haven’t allowed unsupervised contact, I have always visited them with my kids. Going nc isn’t an option to me at this point, but let’s see where I’m lead to further in the process of working on this. It was a big step to me recently when I was finally able to express some of these worries regarding him and my kids to my mum. Previously I haven’t really been able to talk about him with her.

@junebugalice 💐. I imagine you grew up being told, and believing, you were the weak one. Our survival like you say, is testament to the complete opposite being truth.

@Lookingfornewdirection this is difficult. I understand exactly how hard it is with kids where there is a draw there. It isn't always possible to completely cut off. I sense you feel guilty and obligated to your mum at least. I understand she isn't having the greatest time with your dad. Is it right that you adapt continually though? That you're asked to just be more accommodating? Absolutely not. Your mum might not be a tyrant but recognise that she's enabling and you suffer because of that. Is that ok?

My suggestion is a gradual distancing and setting very clear boundaries in your mind. I would ask your kids how they feel at the GPs. I would actually tell them that GDads behaviour is very grumpy and that is not their fault one bit that he behaves that way.

I would find ways to be less available. I would have a strict time limit on visits and never go over that time. I would prepare a response in preparation for your dad when he has a tantrum. That might look like saying nothing more than ' we are leaving ' and then leave.

I wouldn't leave them alone without you.

I realised my own mum fed my son multiple lies. He started asking me, confused, why nan blamed me for something he saw her do with his own eyes 🤦. This is a risk with allowing your kids contact. It's quite emotionally damaging. They'll be drawn to the place where the rules might be relaxed, where they get sweeties unfettered, etc etc.

Your mum is being a rotter saying these things to you. She is in effect saying - you must shoulder responsibility for the behaviour of others.

I don't give a shit what MH problems he has from an empathy perspective. Look how much people here are suffering; do we do this? No we do not.

If he has something akin to schizophrenia then not knowing the extent, yes, id be cautious.

I'm inclined to think your mum's making excuses for him. I can believe he's depressed, yes. I can believe he has personality disorder traits. Does that make this ok? Terrorising the women and kids? No.

Boundaries all the way. The fact you said 'am I over reacting' in your initial post shows you've been brainwashed by your parents. They make you believe it's all your fault.

When anyone asks if they're too sensitive or over reacting, my immediate reaction is always - no. And instead, I ask myself; who did that to you.

Thank you so much @JoyDivision79 I will be back to read your post carefully a few more times.

@Lookingfornewdirection I think we need to have our eyes open with regards to the stories that we tell ourselves about how our parents treat others. There's a tendency to feel like you are the only one (which the parents feed IMO) which keeps us isolated and ashamed. It feeds the narrative that we are the problem, not them. But in my experience, they're often doing a version of the same thing to other people.

It is definitely worth reading up on personality disorders. I am convinced that this is what we are dealing with, although there doesn't seem to be much focus on it. I think it's the issue with my mother.

I've been having a bit of a tough time over the past few days, a lot of nightmares about childhood stuff, and anxiety. Bleugh. I've come to the conclusion that a big part of my problem is that somewhere along the way, I was given the message that I was never to challenge my parents' behaviour, and so my go to response became silent withdrawal instead. So now there are loads of situations where I wish I had been able to say something about my mother's behaviour instead of letting it go. I wish I had challenged her about her behaviour towards my son. But because I didn't, she can pretend that she has no idea what the problem is and the expectation is that i will pretend there isn't one in return. It happened a lot when I was a child - my father would have these batshit tantrums and afterwards we would all be expected to act like nothing had happened. The nightmare I've been having this week is about a time (I was about 5) when he kicked her out of the car at the side of the road. Everything was normal one minute and then the next minute he was in a raging tantrum, screeching to a halt at the side of the road, and literally kicking her out while screaming and swearing at her. I tried to get out of the car to go with her and he held the seat down and wouldn't let me out of the car. I remember being so, so distressed, screaming, crying for my mother. He drove off and I was told to sit in silence and we went home. She had to walk back. I can remember her coming back in the house, and feeling sick with fear and then they both carried on like nothing had happened. I look back now and I feel so awful for that terrified little girl having to live with those two shithead adults. I used to wonder why those situations weren't enough to make her leave, if not for her, then for me, but it was brought to my attention recently that my mother did a very good job of telling herself that it didn't really impact me so it was fine. Just WTF. No wonder I find it hard to spend time with her.

@Ccrazysnakes that's so messed up. A terrifying experience. I know if I highlighted how disturbing my own experiences were to my mother - the response would be to immediately compare to what they had growing up. That was incredibly neglectful in her and her siblings' case.

It makes me think it was normalised for your mum to behave like that. And that's no excuse. We are fighting our way out of our past.

I agree ref how intensely we personalise their treatment. I don't know about all the people on here, my own mother has no friends. There were certain types, usually gentle and softer type women who enjoyed her outgoing side when younger. They seemed to want more than she'd give. Aside from that there's now no one at all friend wise or distraction wise as retirement and age take hold. That can make us feel like we actually really are an intense focus of mistreatment. The reality is that anyone else would get the same treatment if they were too in close proximity. A stranger would be less likely to put up with it. The social rules are still ridiculously favourable to parents and the expectation that adult children endure and respect no matter what they've done.

As I type this I feel sad about her. She's told me she has an ongoing stomach problem. I feel sad and want to help. But I can't and won't say anything. The things I have endured with health, the terror of it, and being dumped to deal with it alone with no provisions in hospital is my constant reminder to self preserve and say little to nothing.

@JoyDivision79 looking back at it now it's clear to me that the message I got was that I was a. alright with what happened at home and b. wasn't damaged by it. Those were the acceptable feelings so I tried my best to be that way. I think my mother needed me to be unaffected so I acted like I was. That said, when there were signs that I was affected they were ignored and dismissed. I even convinced myself I was fine. I'm so embarrassed looking back now at my teens and early twenties when I was clearly struggling, mentally not very well, and thought I was okay and coping really well. Sibling got thousands of pounds spent on therapy. I got nothing apart from my mother telling me she didn't want to talk about it any more when I was still trying to unpick it and didn't know who else to turn to. But I wasn't okay then, and I'm still not really fully functional now. i don't think my mother can deal with it, tbh, so I either pretend it's all fine and ignore the little snipes and digs, or we can't have a relationship. But I don't know how you can bring a child up in that environment for almost two decades and expect them to shrug it off. It's just not possible.

My god I am so angry. The mind fuck insane games that my sociopathic mother plays are so disturbing. It is so so slippery it is beyond words.

I've had very minimal contact for months and she isn't welcome in my home.

A conversation today took place about my broken down car - her offering to help out. ( She's a few doors away)

I arrange for a hire car, it's 15 minutes drive away. So, I text and said car sorted, are you free to drop off tomorrow so I can collect the car I hired( as kindly offered a few times by her) ( I know, I know 🤦). She's ignored the message. She's sat there on her phone, always is on the phone. Has deliberately ignored it since sent late afternoon. I'll be ok and can get a taxi. It's the whole symbolism and what this shows me I really just can't totally accept.

I find this so disturbing. The callousness. The declarations of help were said in the garden ( audience might hear which explains why). How do people find energy to be like this. She would have been able to see it without going into WhatsApp.

A few days ago a power cut affects the village. She and partner have multiple tools and heating bits / gas stove. I was absolutely fine as have great charging capacity in my car for phone. It was off for 12 hours. I have extensive health problems and not one offer or suggestion to help.

She's a few doors away.

A few days earlier, texts saying hi love hope you're ok love you etc. I don't get too wrapped up or believe those and grey rock.

This behaviour with ignoring messages, saying I love you let me help you and then mindfucking you almost drove me crazy until I realised what the witch was doing a number of months ago. This started increasing dramatically as I became more unwell.

I can't even figure out how to ' be' with this psycho. This is punishment for calling out insane manipulative and cruel behaviour and saying I needed space a number of months ago.

Yet, I've very slightly slipped a little and re engaged minimally.

Has anyone got one that's as covert as this?

I know with certainty these are mindfuck games. I know I absolutely must ask nothing at all and this is a reminder to cut it more.

I guess total NC is harder than I thought. I feel zero guilt. I'd say confused is the primary emotion. And sad that she is such a psychotic cu**. I'm also frightened of her tbh. Knowing or contemplating how much she truly hates me underneath.

I believe both her and my sibling would like me dead. I expose them terribly just by existing because I see them and their disgusting ways ( they really are). And I'm the antithesis of them in every way which they hate about me.

She has a dog that I love. He loves being with me and I ' borrow ' him when physically able. So this is a slight vulnerability for me and part reason for minimal contact recently. I believe I have to say goodbye to him. Because there's no script here that makes it possible to know how to function alongside this woman.

I must reduce any stress and strong emotions for my health and well being which is why I sit here thinking on exactly what I must do.

There's absolutely no way of communicating with this thing without being treated like this. It makes me scared of her with my health issues.

I've had a number of truly horrible nightmares about her and my sibling this week.

@JoyDivision79 I'm sorry she's being like this, and that you're having such a horrible time. FWIW I don't think you did anything wrong in reaching out. It's normal to want to ask your mother for help, and to be connected to your family.

There are two things I've learned over the years which I think apply here:

First is that some people simply cannot cope with illness at all, especially the long term, chronic kind. They are just completely freaked out by it, don't know what to do or say, find it very frightening and upsetting, and manage their fear with avoidance and minimising the situation. It's not that unusual, IMO. Sucks for those of us with long term illness, but it is what it is.

The second is that there are a lot of people who make offers of help that they have no intention of following through with. Deep down, they're hoping you'll turn them down, and this often becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, because as soon as people twig that the offers aren't genuine they stop accepting them. Most people are too polite to challenge them or CBA with the fallout. The 'helper' therefore gets to tell themselves that they are a good, helpful person - they offered, after all! instead of admitting that they're the opposite. Lots of horrible people are in complete denial about their behaviour. Everything is always someone else's fault.

I know how difficult it is to accept this when the person is your parent, in particular your mother. I guess the question now is how you handle it going forward. I think you have to make peace with the fact that offers of help aren't genuine. That's the first step. If there's a next time, make your own plans. People like this - who offer help but don't follow through - are ten a penny. Everybody knows someone who does it.

I don't think it's personal or punishment necessarily (because that requires these people to think about us, and IMO they don't - it is all about them. We think they think about us because we spend so much time thinking about them, but I honestly don't think they do. We just aren't that important to them).

@JoyDivision79 your post is incredibly triggering for me as this is my mother too. I'm sorry. I understand your anger so well and as I read what you wrote it became even clearer to me how deranged this behaviour is. My mother is a covert narcissist through and through.

I can relate to you falling into the trap yet again. It's because we aren't like them and we slip up and don't expect anything sinister in this moment. You have been betrayed, abused and controlled all at once. You have been blindsided again with something so simple you wouldn't think people play any tricks on you with that. But they do.

It messes with your mind. Your system. It's covert abuse on a grande scale nobody would understand who hasn't experienced it. They would find excuses for the abuser because what they do is so unimaginable for a normal person . It's dangerous.

My mother would do what yours does. Id think she'd offered something and when I take her up on it she's be umming and ahhing. Or I'd ask her something, it could be as simple as can she pass me the gravy at dinner, and i couldn't be sure she would without making it a game. Id ask something and she would pretend she didn't hear me or make me beg to give a response. Once when I was a teenager we were in a supermarket market and she asked whether we should take some apples or bananas. I said bananas and she said 'go and get some apples'. This is a real example out of many. I can't describe how small it made me. A normal person will never understand.

I agree the best would be to go NC. I'm sorry about the dog. It would make it very hard for me too. I'm not sure I would be able to do it, but I agree it's the only way. It would result in you grieving the dog. Or you hang on until the dog is no more in case it's older.