July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

My DH has said she's jealous. I always felt why would she be jealous, wouldn't you be pleased if your kids did well (I would) but there have been weird things over the years that point to it. She's definitely played the game of 'I'm more attractive than you and men prefer me.'

It's funny, I remember her once complaining that her own mother was kind to everyone but her. Guess what road she's gone down herself 🙄

I know i asked myself the same question. When I was a kid/teenager my achievements were in her eyes because of her or she used to buy me clothes that weren't really appropriate for a teenager and used to be happy herself whenever I got male attention its like it reflected on her.
Anyway now im an adult if I now seem to get an achievement or go on holiday or buy something nice I can see the jealously. She doesnt seem genuinely happy and its like her fake happiness is there gritted teeth to say "that's nice".
Its so odd.
Like you said I would be happy for my child. So happy if they were doing better than me or just happy in themselves with what they were doing.

I had the thought out of nowhere this weekend that I've been carrying my mother around like a heavy suitcase, and I just want to put it down. And I can do that. I can leave it unclaimed on the luggage carousel and someone else can pick it up. I can be free of that load now. Just put it down. I'm tired of thinking that I'll be free when she dies. I want to be free now.

Thank you so much for this. When I'm wavering about the best way of doing things I'll remember this picture. You've captured exactly how it feels.

@Crazysnakes @Strawberrypjs , thank you both for your empathetic responses. You both make excellent points. I really do need to sit with these thoughts for a while and let them permeate. Old habits, as they say, die hard.

I'm so grateful for this thread, but so sad we've all had such toxic parents. At least here we can unburden with others who understand. 🫂

Agreed

I can’t stand the constant cycle of thoughts over this. Having to fully accept Im of no value to this family I’m in. We had some really great news at the weekend for my little family and has anyone from his family said anything..,nope. He has told them but no comments. I don’t know why I expected anything but these constant reminders that we aren’t valued is hard. I wish so much I had a healthy family who rooted for you. It’s a cycle of grief all the time.

When I think about it I think we are the ones who are too different for our family. Trauma changes us, what we value and what we aspire for, what we clap for. We don’t fit the system anymore, society or our family. We stop wanting to prove ourselves by what we own and what we do. We don’t hide behind image and ownership and pretending everything is ok. There are others out there like this also who have values that we do. Honesty, loyalty, realness, open in communication, humble, peaceful spirits. I met a lovely lady about six months ago. We have been talking and it’s been nice to have pride for each of our struggles. We know the achievements we have made inside ourselves. I think it’s important to surround yourself with people on the same wavelength so we can help each other along.

@Strawberrypjs the less you communicate and interact, the easier it gets to cut them off. Then you care less.

I still went to my mum over the awful neighbour situation. Luckily, this time, I quickly saw her in her true form and cut that comms quickly and dealt with it myself emotionally.

It's harder to escape all the FOG and disappointment and rejection when you're having to interact. It's like taking heroin I guess - without any high either. The more you have contact with it, the more brain fogged you are. It's always in your system.

You don't need them or their approval on anything.

That's really kind. I will probably always fall back into one of those emotions and then find myself at square one again. Luckily it lasts for shorter periods now as I remember quickly to get away.

I still have a part of me that wants to go to my mum for support.

My main emotion has always been Fear in relation to my mum and all the toxic people. Fear of them, fear of being without them, fear of what they will do, fear of what will happen to me without them. My dynamic doesn't involve much guilt for me. It has always been fear since day one. My family are very able and physically well so maybe that's why.

It's not easy to cut ties. The impact is lifelong.

I wouldn't consciously ask my mother for any kind of support, because I know I wouldn't get it. She's got form. All she would want to talk about would be how stressful the situation was for her. But I still sometimes have found myself letting things slip that I later regret. It's the natural order, isn't it - our mother is older, more experienced, should therefore be wiser and helpful and comforting. But with my mother the relationship is back to front.

I feel bad for my partner that they don’t approve of me even though it’s on them. It’s a shitty environment that we are in because he can’t see it.

Does he want or need their approval?

Gosh, I relate entirely. I don't feel obligation or guilt either - the other 2 emotions wrapped up in FOG; only pure unadulterated fear. I don't think I've ever said that out loud to anyone before because who would understand that a middle aged woman is so fearful of her own family. I mean it sounds insane, but when you know you know. I never know which direction they're going to aim their ire next so I'm left with a constantly swivelling head, bracing myself for the next blow. I feel frozen with fear and my life is an absolute shit show because I don't have the luxury of being able to breathe and concentrate on moving forward with getting my life together.

He doesn’t seek anything. He is ok with his brother being praised and him nothing. He actually says his brother deserves it more. I don’t know how to feel about any of it. I don’t agree with it. I can see my partner has never had a good word from his parents and it’s sad. I’m just not ok with it and he is used to it. His parents should be proud of him, he’s a good guy, has good friends, good dad, just a solid good guy all around. His family suck.

Can you see that this isn't him, it's you? Let him feel how he feels. It's not your job to decide what that looks like. You cannot control what his parents feel towards him. You cannot control what he feels towards his parents.

What you need to work on here is your response to this family dynamic.

Yeah my response is the whole thing sucks. My tongue is bitten sore where I don’t say anything and just nod along to what he tells me. Of course it’s me who feels it because I’m not numbed to it like he is. It’s hard to sit back and accept a scapegoat position when our little family is amazing. But yeah that anger is mine to absorb. He actually believes we are right to be positioned in this place and that is what gets me more so then what they think. If he didn’t accept it but just went along with it I’d be more ok.

I haven't followed the whole thread of what's happening with your partner's family, but from what I can gather he's the scapegoat and other sibling is golden child? It's great that you support your partner so much, us scapegoats need all the love and support we can get as have never received it from our own ffamilies. But, I do agree with pp that you have to let your partner make these realisation in his own time and try not to force the issue, even though it's blatantly obvious to you that they're horrible people. As a scapegoat he will probably be used to a lifetime of control and bulkying, and you need to avoid behaviours that can add to his mental load. I probably haven't worded that well, but keep doing what you're doing and immersing in him in unconditional love but step back when it comes to voicing your opinion of his family dynamics - he'll get there one day but it has to be of his own accord.

Thank you and you are right. I tell him an awful lot that we are proud of him but his lack of understanding about his family dynamics is hurting me and my family. It’s a very hard balance. I know his upbringing must have been extremely submissive. When he talks he doesn’t see any issues with this. He was literally allowed to do whatever he wanted. What he sees as freedom was actually because they didn’t care. It’s hard. I’m not sure he will ever see the truth.

Again, this is you, not him. The problem here isn't him, it's your anger at the fact that he won't react to his parents in the way you think he should. But his feelings are not yours to control.

He has found a way to manage his family relationships that works for him. You need to find a way to accept that. He obviously values the freedom he was given. Maybe you should value it more too. There's a lot to be said for not having to impress your parents. Don't underestimate it.

But the way he has found is by believing that his brother deserves more. Not by just getting on with it and ignoring the dynamic. He’s had 36 years to adapt to this and I’m struggling to. How can I ever adapt to this by believing that we deserve less? It’s great to not need to impress your family but when this is because you believe you aren’t as important it doesn’t feel right at all. He is scapegoating all of us.

I wonder if you somehow feel you need to fix your husband. The biggest favour you can do for yourself and your husband and probably your relationship is to focus on your own feelings and what they say about you. He has his reality based on what he currently knows and you have your's.

You don't need to blieve you deserve less. But you can accept his family for who they are and also your husband for who he is. I don't think you do. It sounds like a fantasy that he'd finally see what you see and cut ties with his family. An issue might be that you seem to live very externally. Analysing the hell out of other people and the world. It is a common trauma response. This distracts from your own issues and feelings and keeps you stuck. You need to begin focussing on yourself.

Why can't you detach yourself from them.

Let him do what he wants and is ok with and you decide for yourself what you want. So maybe you don't go to these family things any longer. Maybe you come up with a standard reply to anything he says about his family, give it 1 minute then change subject. You can tell him the truth; you find them triggering so it's not anything unkind you're wanting to do to him. You simply find them and conversation about them draining and difficult. It's true and I believe very valid.

Come away from SMedia for say 1 week.

I have a friend in an identical dynamic to me. She can't see it yet. She's upset by it, but I can't really tell her much as she doesn't quite get it or maybe wants to at this stage. You can't influence other people. But you can cut the family away from you personally via the above boundaries. Don't see them, don't engage on SMedia. Tell your partner the truth but tell those other idiots that you have migraines or any excuse to avoid them and protect your emotional space.

I can from them. But I find my partner really challenging. He doesn’t stick up for us in the way I think he should. For example they said that we aren’t a real family so we don’t need family holidays altogether. He didn’t say anything. He allows them to say whatever they like. He is on their side. I’ve been down this road before at the end of the day family comes before us. I would never allow a member of my family to say this without them getting told. Basically I have to detach from absolutely everyone because I can trust no one.

I’m absolutely sick of narcs. It’s like that song…narcs to the left of me narcs to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with a scapegoat with no back bone.

There you have it. You don't feel seen/supported by him. Therefore you have the fantasy that he finally sees what you see, wakes up, gets angry and changes. He does not see what you see, so he continues to be a doormat and that extends to poor boundaries.

The main problem you have is your husband. You have put him on a pedestal, but the fact that he is a scapegoat does not absolve him of the responsibility to put his own family unit first and protect it. Your job is to decide how you want to respond to that. You find a way of dealing with it emotionally without ANYONE else needing to change (as you have tried to discuss this with your husband and he's not interested) or you walk away. These are the options.