July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

NC for this.
I was SA from about the age of 5. My mum actually instigated this with her boyfriend so I had no one to reach out to. It went on for 5 years after which I couldn't stand it anymore as my mum was in hospital (it was always a lot worse when she wasn't around) and he was forcing me to sleep in his bed at night.I was 10. I went and told my nanna what was happening, he had always threatened to kill my nan if I ever told her but I decided to tell her anyway.
Long long story short I ended up in a care home, my mum never ever visited she would just keep writing very sporadically that she had had another baby to him!
My mum stood up in court and swore that it never happened but the evidence said otherwise.
I have had a bit of counseling, now in my 60s but I never really got along with it.
Mum died in her early 50s and I never did nor never will shed any tears.
10 years she was with that monster!

I think i should say that I only snoop on fb every couple of months. I don't think about sm at all day to day. I generally find all sm quite depressing.

@Mycatsrulex2 I have so much love and compassion for you and that little girl. How can a human ever develop loving connection after this experience you had to cruelly endure.

So many of us have been so terribly tainted by the dark experiences of our own family/ parents. When I hear of SA, it's the ultimate hideous betrayal. I fear it's so much more common than realised. I will not understand how any mother can blame their daughters for their own abuse, yet I believe this happens often in these scenarios.

I hope you have love and goodness in your life somewhere. I find my only safety is in animals and nature. I see so much now I didn't see before. My connection to the world outside of people has been wonderful. I'm so lucky to live in a beautiful rural area and have the luxury of being able to escape alone without responsibilities.

How can we not tbh. It's so clever in it's addictive quality. I might be anonymous online now but I still can doom scroll and go zombie for ages 😆.

And I absolutely still seek validation through WhatsApp and even this as pointed out is a vehicle at times for approval and acceptance.

For @Strawberrypjs - I can sense from your posts that the link to family online is a huge struggle and not helping you.

@Twatalert - 😘 for you.

I apologise in sounding judgemental to anyone.

We've been talking about perceptions and how it's rarely how it seems. People present an image or idea and it is not going to reflect the entirety of what's really going on in their life.

There's definitely extreme joy for you somewhere and maybe that isn't in a relationship. Maybe you're going to find it somewhere else.

@Phoebesparrow that's a truly horrible experience. And it's made ten times worse because people don't and can't comprehend it. No matter how many stories you tell. Even I, with my very messed up family, would go straight to the place of thinking ' it's your mum ' and think someone was over reacting. The less said to people who don't get it, the better I find. Apart from when you meet other people who have or are experiencing it. There are plenty. This place is great because we totally understand and no one here underestimates or disbelieves the impact of their awful behaviour.

@IkeaLove you sound like the family scapegoat too. I think that's what most of us here are. It does not matter what you do, what you say, what you try change, they will always make you the villain in their mind. It's something different about you, something pretty amazing and special ( in a very good way) that makes you the scapegoat. It's worth looking into the theory behind it if you have any room left to read about it. I accept sometimes switching off is better.

@Thelnebriati yes, the things I have normalised/ we all have, in my family is too weird. I had to rely on my mum to help care for my son as I became very physically unwell. Them being drunk every night in charge was just normal. Even though inside I was subconsciously screaming. I didn't realise. All sorts of weird behaviour with zero accountability. Playing kids off against each other, telling one ( mine) he was very special and the favourite. Not great really.

Phoebe that's appalling. I'm glad you've found a good partner and if you've come away from your past with nothing to show for it other than appearing to be "a bit weird", I'd say you're doing really fricking well!

Thank you ❤️ Yes I have a brilliant husband, two amazing grown children and two adorable GC. Life is good. I managed to give my children everything that I never had though I was and still am fiercely protective of them. I tell them every day how proud I am and that I love them, this is something that was never ever said to me as a child!
I still have a lot of issues about my past, even now but the love I get from my husband and children is amazing. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones really.

.

Evening everyone - it's my first post on this thread. I'd like to thank the poster who originally started these threads. I had a pretty horrendous childhood filled with a lot of fear, physical and psychological punishment, was gaslighted and disbelieved. As a result have a 'difficult' and complex relationship with my elderly parents and the conflicting feelings of the need to stay at a distance versus guilt because they are now aged and vulnerable, is becoming overwhelming.

I think just being here among others who understand is helpful. Other than that, I don't know what to expect.

Thank you for reading.

Found you all I just thought the previous thread had gone quiet as no recent posts so place marking and will catch up

I read some great articles recently about an acronym called FOG - Fear, Guilt, Obligation.

The emotions are not yours. They're given to you. They have been part of your training and life long brainwashing. These 3 emotions are a consistent tool or weapon rather purposely evoked by the abusive people, such as your parents.

The feelings are therefore not valid, or justified or right for you to even think you are responsible for. They're projected onto you.

A loving parent would never ever expect a child to sacrifice themselves for them - no matter what.

Another good speaker I listened to explained that Guilt is much better than Resentment. If you must have one, take guilt every single time. Much less physical and emotional damage to you is the result as opposed to what resentment does. Resentment is the ultimate betrayal of you and your needs and your subconscious always knows.

Thank you @JoyDivision79 . This does make sense. Easier said than done after half a century of conditioning by the two people who should have loved and protected me. Maybe I need to seek further counselling or CBT - who knows? Im just so utterly overwhelmed. My friends have mostly all lost their parents. They had great childhoods. I still have mine, and the guilt I feel about having to cope with them - with them still projecting their anger, manipulation and lies at me, however hard I try - is difficult to bear at times.

I tried very hard to break the abuse cycle, and my children know how loved they are.

Really appreciate you taking the time to answer - thank you .

You don't have to cope with them North, you could walk away. It's a valid choice, you don't owe your abusers anything including love or care.

@SamAndAnnie , you're right. And again, I really appreciate you replying to me. Not seeing them at all would mean having to explain myself to extended family. I have a brother who sees them far less than I do. He too is traumatised by our upbringing. Sometimes I believed I must have imagined it all, until my brother and I spoke and validated each other's memories. My brother doesn't know some of what happened to me, and I doubt i could ever tell him. My husband does, and it has been a relief to tell someone I trust and who believes me.

My husband tells me to step back - to only do what I feel I can. As a caring person by nature, this is reality hard for me, but I always feel better when I know I don't have to go and see them.

I am just feeling particularly vulnerable at the moment, and I can't explain why. Perhaps it is because they are so old now? I've been stronger than this before.

Feel like I'm rambling.

We probably all have some sort of trauma bond or even something like Stockholm syndrome with our mothers.

I actually believe the horror of what our mothers are capable of is possibly worse than we realise. I mean in terms of their thoughts and having zero empathy as opposed to what they could physically do. My mum was falling over herself offering to take me to dignitas when I said I wanted to consider it if my illnesses continue like this. It was not from a place of compassion and support. It was immediately clear to me it was absent of love. Scary and horrible to even think about accepting the reality of this stuff.

It's a lifelong struggle for us because we desperately want a connection and seek love and connection as anyone would with their parents. The guilt is not something you can just switch off. It's good to recognise that they're putting it on you though. Even if you left your parents and moved to another country never speaking to them again......you would have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about; nothing. It's other people that tell you you should feel guilty. It's all lies, manipulation and part of the FOG brainwashing.

@Northwentsouth if the extended family are so concerned, they can help care for your parents. You owe them nothing. If they make you feel things that you aren't responsible for, putting them at a distance might help too. A very simple ' it is not possible for me to help any further ' - end of conversation. ' how are you and the kids?'. It's easy for me to say this but you know how absolutely ok this is to do? We are taught and trained to be the dumping ground for other people. So it feels alien to us to simply say.....no.

Your brother won't want to feel responsible either and of course will want you to take on more than him regarding the care needs of your parents. Especially being a male, it is in his best interests that you do most, so he doesn't have to. It is him being human and a bloke unfortunately.

So every person here needs you to feel guilty - so you do what they don't want to.

Put you first for once in your life. You owe them zero ❤️

@JoyDivision79 , I am so very sorry to hear you have such serious health concerns, and that you have not had the empathy you truly deserve from your mother. I'm sending you as much support as I can, and I hope you have a good support network IRL on whom you can rely and trust ❤️

You are completely correct in saying the damage caused by our mothers cuts as deep as it's possible to go. Becoming a parent I think magnifies this still further.

You've absolutely hit the nail on the head re the guilt, and how everyone needs me to feel this in order to fulfil my 'duties'. My brother - to be fair to him - would probably understand if I pared my visits right back as he has indicated that he couldn't do what I do.

The guilt my parents would lay on me - and have done so when I miss a week or two - is really quite horrible. I have pushed back on a number of occasions, but isn't it strange that when a certain look or tone of voice is used in anger and spite, or a phrase is trotted out...makes me feel like that little girl again?

Im going to read up on FOG as it makes sense to me.

Thank you x

@Northwentsouth would you believe that going No Contact with my sibling ( abusive and very much in cahoots with our mum), then going very low to almost no contact with my mum, and then my ex ( I have to co parent somewhat) - all this has allowed me to find strength from somewhere that has got me off my sofa. I have swam in lakes, I have laid in forests, I have played guitar, I have written poetry. And I'm pretty good at these things.

In spite of all my illnesses ( autoimmune diseases, no coincidence) - I have found strength to do the above. I've been sofa ridden for a long time.

It's getting rid of them that has allowed this to happen over recent months.

Toxic people really can kill you, in ways we don't always recognise.

Lots of hugs and love ❤️

@JoyDivision79 what an incredibly inspiring person you are, to have found the strength to break those toxic chains and discover yourself. May you continue to find joy in life!

I admire you. Sending much love back to you too ❤️

Toxic people will keep on taking until you are no more and then they will find someone else to take from. Guilt comes from the conditioning and from the family ties. We “should” take care of our parents as they took care of us…..only in some cases they didn’t. Be mindful that it’s the ties, the labels that they are using here. We are like plant runners or the host that parasites cling to. They use you until you’ve nothing left and they feel no remorse. Be so very mindful of your empathy, it’s a double edged sword with narcs! If they sense it they will absolutely abuse it to get what they need, whatever that be.

You're not rambling at all, when you're in this situation it can be such a tangled web and unpicking it can take a lot of working through. It's both very simple and very complicated at the same time. FWIW my situation is a bit different to yours (NC with father for decades, but still some contact with my mother which over the years has become more and more difficult for me - like you, every time I have to see her just the thought of it fills me with dread. Even a text message can leave me feeling horrible for days).

I think the vulnerability comes with our parents getting old because they are going to need help of some sort and we know it's likely that they will at least try to get us to provide it, and that other people may also want that as a solution (most likely because they don't want to get landed with the job themselves and who can blame them). The position I've taken is that my mother is getting old and will need help, but I do not have to be the one to provide it, and it's OK to decide that. I will not set myself on fire to keep her warm. I know only too well how quick she will be to take advantage of me if she thinks there's a chance to make me her support human.

I would say definitely read up on FOG. I've found it really helpful to keep reminding myself that although guilt isn't pleasant, if you accept it's going to happen rather than doing everything you can to avoid it, it passes, and often quicker than you think. One thing I do now is to never rush to answer anything so that I'm not responding from that place. Too often what we are doing is responding with what worked for us as a survival strategy as children trapped in a house with these people as our parents - so for example, hasty people pleasing, trying to preempt trouble, trying to keep them in a good mood and control their emotional state, etc. But as adults we don't need those strategies any more. We can say no now. It's safe. It's allowed. It's alright. We don't need their approval. I had the thought out of nowhere this weekend that I've been carrying my mother around like a heavy suitcase, and I just want to put it down. And I can do that. I can leave it unclaimed on the luggage carousel and someone else can pick it up. I can be free of that load now. Just put it down. I'm tired of thinking that I'll be free when she dies. I want to be free now.

I would also read up on codependency (I recommend a book called codependent no more by Melody Beattie)

I think it’s extremely difficult to carry the weight of other people’s opinions of you. Not helping your parents is like a neon flashing light above your head and most people won’t understand why. That’s a lot to carry, the thoughts of others and not cave under the pressure of judgement. Society is cruel in this sense, it has a lot to answer for and causes more trauma. Narcs would revel in this because it makes you look bad. It’s water under the bridge to others who simply don’t get it.

NC is continuing here, no attempts at contact. I'm starting to feel peaceful. I'm still getting unwanted memories popping up more often than I would like. Spent some of the weekend mulling over a couple of things and suddenly seeing them from what I suppose I'd call an outside perspective and thinking seriously WTF. The first was a thing my mother does where she starts weird conversations by asking me about something and pretending complete ignorance about the topic. I've begun to think that maybe she did know, she was just pretending not to, to get me to explain things. And sometimes she would later throw those things back in my face. She seems to really enjoy telling me I'm wrong. It's hard to explain. I hope it makes sense.

I also keep coming back to a conversation we had a while ago, where I said that DH had paid for me to see a doctor privately and she got really angry and went on a massive long rant that private healthcare was selfish and disgusting and people like me were ruining the NHS (her reasoning was utterly batshit). The more I think about it, the more it feels like her response was just spiteful and nasty and not normal. Normal would be to say I'm glad you're able to get treatment, are you OK, do you need anything, wouldn't it?

I've been telling myself that behaviour isn't that bad, but it is bad, isn't it.

Her reaction to your DH sounds more like jealously. I've recently come to realise DM is very jealous. I never saw it before.
Narcs have to be the centre of attention and anything they feel is better than them is a direct threat to them, hence her reaction