July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I let go of the idea that my mother will be an actual mum. I know she has at least one personality disorder.

I never longed for an actual mother until I understood how mine wasn't a mother and saw all the nurturing I should have received but didn't. I now have a concept of what healthy relationships look like and it's been absolutely brutal. All I can think of is this little girl who was made scapegoat even as a baby and grew up deprived and isolated. Who had nasty seeds planted in her head and believed every bad story and criticism her mother told her. I understand now what a loving mother is like and I long for it very much. It kills me that I will never know a mother's love. I will never get over that.v

What I still have hope for is to have some family back. But it's a fantasy. I wonder what would happen if my mother died before my father, which won't happen because she's in much better health and will probably live to 95 or something. My father isn't vicious and calculating like she is. I have a fantasy that she will die and everyone will say 'thank god' and 'you were right all along twatalert'.

Yes I’ve learned that what we have told ourselves is a load of bollocks. “It’s great to put on a brave face, it’s strong to do everything on your own, it’s best to suffer in silence, don’t share any feelings, stick to what everyone else is doing, don’t stand out”… all what these parents have taught us. It kills me sometimes to have never known softness. It hardens your heart and we have to try and soften it.

People just don't understand at all what it must be like when you estrange yourself from family and never knew a mother. My friend was just telling me about a young coworker at work who lost her mother at 22. She told me that loosing a mother must be horrendous...then she said not for you twatalert with your kind of mother...but if you have a good mother it must be really tough. My friend still has her mum. I'm glad I found my voice and told her how horrendous it is to never have had a mother and to have to live with that. It didn't get through to her.

My friend said that she's amazed I managed with my mother for so long and that she would have blown up and left much sooner. I'm just so offended by it. No concept at all what it's like to leave absolutely everything and learn a new way of living that's different from all the rules and values one grew up with. Years of therapy. The tears. The desperation. The grief and the hopelessness. Zero idea. I'm quite disappointed. As far as I know what I did was incredibly brave and I'm bloody amazing for walking into the unknown and build a new internal world.

What I think people don't understand is that it requires you to look at your life, at the things you believed growing up, and to see that they aren't right, and that's an incredibly difficult thing to do. There's far more to it than just falling out with your parents. I wish it were that simple.

Yeah. It makes me realise how incredible everyone here is. Because people out there have no concept of doing a complete 180 (or even just 90 or 45) about everything you knew.

I just feel so disappointed every time I open up to someone a tiny bit about the biggest tragedy of my life. I want someone to get it. I want some I see and speak to to understand. To go 'ah' just for a split second. I don't know how anyone is going to ever know me if they can't see a tiny bit how painful all this must have been.

That is something I have also grappled with. If people knew what I’ve been through they’d be kinder, they’d truly know me. But the sad thing is, most people don’t want to really know someone for who they are but for what they offer them in the present day. You have to know just how amazing you are to yourself. Every now and again someone will get it but those people are few and far between. We have to make sure we keep the most valuable and the most vulnerable parts of ourselves to those who really deserve to hear it. Far few people now a days seem to be able to mentally stand in the shoes of another.

@Strawberrypjs it's a tricky one. With my friend for example I needed to assert myself as opposed to not saying anything as usual. It felt good, but it also meant I gave her something of me she has no concept of and got disappointed. Like I had to somehow have compassion for her coworker or even her for when her mum passes, but there isn't any for me or my situation. I guess I somehow have to learn to be okay with it.

People just don’t get it all unless they get it. When you speak to someone in RL who actually does get it it feels amazing. The friend with the birthday has been through so much, she gets it and it’s nice to not have to explain what I say or do. What we’ve been through/going through is like that dark web thing on the internet, it’s there but no one knows it’s there. I have been getting defensive with people in the past but there is no point because it’s not their fault they don’t understand.

I probably still just want a mum that's interested in me and attunes to me.

At times I have compassion for my mother. It actually pisses me off. I once saw a photo of her. She must have been 3 or 4 and all I saw was sadness. That little girl looked so sad. Her mother is a narcissist too, one who has followers in the community etc. It annoys me that I have developed an understanding and even compassion for her and I will never receive anything like it. Did she ever think that I didn't look happy in many childhood photos? It's so obvious. She probably just sees a stroppy and moody child who played up.

You are much more healthy, it’s healthy to have compassion for people. Most awful people were once innocent children and we can empathise with what that child went through. Unfortunately they are just too damaged from their experiences. They can not enter our worlds, they couldn’t when we were small or now when we are adult. We can only exist if we go into theirs and it’s shit in there and as children we have absolutely no comprehension of this.

How can you make your world a little nicer for you?

It’s been a while since I’ve been on and also changed my name. I’m posting more to get my feelings out rather than needing responses.

Im struggling at the moment. A family member my age died this week, we are 51yo, they died in a matter of days of us finding out they were sick. We weren’t close as adults, like me they distanced themself from family, me because of my narc mother, them due to childhood abuse. But in some way we were also closer than others in the family, our lives didn’t entwine but we crossed paths and we both briefly confided stuff to each other, we got each other without words if you understand what I mean.

It’s hard, I can’t explain it, their death has hit me far harder than people I’ve been openly close to. I think it’s because we grew up together, I still picture us being children playing, I also saw them so happy the last few years after decades of trauma.

I reconciled my mother dying and me not being involved a long time ago, the same with older family members, I’m prepared for these situations, but this has knocked me for six and I can’t just rock up and be with family I’ve actively distanced myself self from. The last family funeral I went to my narc mother who had fuck all to do with the deceased made it all about her, I was emotionally and mentally prepared for her then, but I don’t think I’d hold up right now,

I thought I’d prepared myself for every scenario, which involved the older family members dying off first, but this has taken me off guard. I’m not an emotional person, many of you will understand what it’s like for a parent to use your emotions against you, so I bottle them up. I’m really struggling now though, I just keep crying and need to see people but I can’t tell them that ( again showing feelings) and also feeling like I have no right because I choose to distance myself, I know my reasons but they don’t. It dosnt help that my narc mother has grown close to the sibling of the deceased, she’s tried using them as a flying monkey before (I shut that down) but they are 100% under the spell of my mother being a saint and their rock, so I can’t just turn up there to see them.

I know I will be fine, just getting it down has helped but I needed to get it out before I exploded or got drunk and regretted doing something.

Gettingbiggerandbigger I'm sorry for your loss and I understand it must be very sad to lose a family member who knew the background, who 'gets it' and who'd chosen the same path. What leaps out the page at me is not to attend any group gatherings, funeral etc for this person. They would totally get it and probably advise you to protect yourself and tell you they understand. You can do and say anything you like to and about them privately. You could possibly speak to the vicar in confidence and ask him for advice and say your own prayers for the deceased before or after the melee. You could plant a tree or dedicate a bench, without consulting any of the family.

Mother wanted a direct cremation, I think she wanted me to rent my garments and protest. I didn't. After everything was arranged and paid for (by me as executor) my monster sister told me she couldn't cope with direct cremation only and would I do a funeral and go with her.

I said no but that I would instruct the funeral director to let my sister do whatever she wanted to and to apply what I had already paid but that the bill for any changes would be my sisters. Because, after all, I had complied with the request for a direct cremation and paid for it.

I'm not normally a bitch but I just thought, get on with it you stupid cow (sister). I didn't attend her hybrid performance.

Hi I am new to this thread,but I recognise so many of the things you are saying. My mother has now developed dementia, but still after 50+ yrs makes me her scapegoat for everything. It is worse now with dementia because she constantly lies about me, says to anyone that will listen that i dont visit, ( i go daily) and she is being financially abused, when actually I have bailed her out financially and never asked for a penny from her. She has told the world about how she looked after me and has given me everything, ( she chose to privately school me for three yrs) and she now says its her time to claim everything back from me. She is rude and aggressive to people and wonders why she has no friends. Even the carer i use for a bit of respite has said she has never come across someone so spiteful towards their child, especially considering that i take care of shopping, finances,appts, admin,medication. Carer even said that she thought my own mother was jealous of me, and i think she might be on to something there. My mother has definitely guilt tripped me enough in the past for me to see that life would have been different had i recognised her for the narcissist she is when i was in my 20’s. All of this and yes i cannot help having compassion for her, even the at times i have wished she wasn’t around so i could be completely free.

Leaving an abusive family is like leaving a cult, except you don't get any support and people think you are awful. I rarely talk about it in real life.

I agree, they think you're mental and prickly and did it because someone ate your yoghurt when you were 7.

I've just remembered something. When I was about 6/7 and my monster sister 16 mum publicly, around the Christmas tree gave her a vibrator. WHAT.

Maybe she has her reasons for being such a monster. But she didn't have to be such a bitch to ME, I didn't do anything to her.

I also think that a lot of people are putting up with abuse rather than step away from their family and have to tell themselves it's not what it looks like in order to do it, which makes it very uncomfortable if they meet someone who has faced up to it. I've met people before who have regular contact with their abusive parents and bend over backwards to help them. When I asked why they maintained contact with people who treated them so badly they couldn't really explain it, but often I got the impression that they were keeping the relationship going in order to prove to themselves that they were good people because they were kind to someone who repeatedly hurt them. I made myself a promise when I was younger than when I was an adult, I wouldn't spend time with people who hurt me and I wouldn't do things I don't enjoy. Even my mother commented once about how I cut people off and that was wrong because you couldn't just end a relationship, what about their feelings, you should just get over it or you'd end up with no-one etc etc. This is after I'd watched her cling to a man who treated her like dirt. Watched her repeatedly beg her father for his attention, when he repeatedly told her to her face that he wasn't interested and that he didn't care and accused her of only seeing him to try and get money. I couldn't understand why she wanted their attention. They were awful people. Why did she want relationships with them. Why did she throw herself at these vile men. Why did she value their attention so much. Why didn't she just tell them to eff off.

If the options are have no one or have someone awful, I'll take no one every day of the week. But I know that a lot of people find that option unthinkable.

Being alone is uncomfortable and tough. But im like you people have treated me poorly and I eventually cut them out completely. Friends/exes. I don't have many friends at all but tbh I don't trust many people. Probably because my family taught me not to trust people as the people closest to me and that I was suppose to trust were so untruthworthy and taught me to lie about our family dynamics.

I think loads of people have normalised low level toxic behaviour. I mean in relationships when you are dependent on someone it’s so scary to leave. You sort of get the attitude it’s not so bad really because the alternative feels massive. Leaving means being alone and we are not programmed to be alone, we need others for survival. So going against this need is really horrifying but it just goes to show how bad it must have been. My IDVA told me that people only tend to leave abusive relationships when threat to life kicks in and over rides the bonds and ties we create keeping us with them.

I have had a really strange day, with old memories popping up uninvited. For some reason today I remembered the night my father dosed me with valium, basically insisted that I took it. I could only have been 7 or 8. My mother sat there and said nothing. It was never talked about again. I want to ask who's valium was it, why was it in the house, why didn't you witness that and then quietly start making plans to get me away from him. And then there's the puppy he wanted that we only had for a few weeks and then I got up one morning because it was my job to walk it and it wasn't there. I still don't know what happened to it. That was never talked about again either. The weird stuff freaks me out, tbh.

It is quite scary and it’s quite amazing that our bodies know who is a threat and who isn’t. It is a threat to our values and our identities having narcs, they are a threat to who we are. It’s like a little spidey sense. I keep trying to ignore it with the in-laws and just let it go over me but your body is just like nope we don’t like this shit!

Why? because she was a rubbish neglectful disordered mum. Actions are your answer. No answer can speak louder. It would all be lies anyway.