July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@Solace123 yes, I get it. It's just classic death by a thousand cuts. I wouldn't trust your sister to support you. She will probably swing back and forth and ultimately side with your parents out of guilt or enmeshment or similar. Your father made a horrible dig at you. It was a putdown.

No boundary will make your parents see you, but maybe if you keep setting them (which they will ignore or challenge) you'll get angry enough to walk away.

Loneliness is hard. But is it loneliness from not having many friends or is it loneliness from not belong to this family?

I think that having more friends would be good but it probably won't solve much. I think the family situation needs addressing/figuring out.

To add @Solace123 I used to think too that I just need to build a social circle away from my family and all will be sorted. No. Firstly, their messing up means I'm messed up and struggle with relationships. So the try to have more friends failed because of my baggage. Secondly, it needs a lot of internal work. This in one way is good because you don't need to find new people to get better. But then it's also a difficult and long process and a lonely one too. Ultimately I think it is rewarding to address the ugly past and it's possible to become much more at peace with oneself. Still lonely but more bearable.

Thanks for replying. I feel like a lot of people in my life just won't get it so I don't tell anyone.

I've had years of counselling. I'm now at a point where I'm so self aware of the issues that talking therapy doesnt seem to do much for me anymore. Have you tried any other therapies or what helped you?
Ive felt this way previously but I guess I really had 1 or 2 friends then and I do have more now but I think you're right I still feel lonely because I do find it hard with any kind of relationship.
I'm angry because its my families fault but they would never see it as their fault

I have had a horrible altercation with my neighbour.

I'm trying to understand what's me. I know deep inside that people will take a mile and I'm watching it all around me constantly .

I'm being quite firm with boundaries now. I don't know if it's that or is it me.

My natural sense is off because of my history and then becoming so sick. Surrounded by narc/ sociopathic people.

This is the scenario - for light entertainment - even though I'm gutted as my homes not even a sanctuary anymore and have mother weirdo up the road.

Housing Association - house converted. I'm at the top, neighbours below me. They moved in a year ago. Irritating doesn't cover it. The main problem is the house has really poor insulation.

• I've had their baby left crying for so long I ended up moving out my room. They take sleep tablets or something. They sleep through everything.

The baby screeches every morning now. I understand that can't be helped. I accept that.

• 4 to 5 times alarms going off and wake me up. Left for ages going off. Because they take something that stops them waking.
• Once,at 3 am you could hear it down the street. I went out to try figure out where from. I then realised it was them. Bloody Unconscious.
• They get a pup - howls non stop. So I tell them about this as I'm so exhausted. Get a sob story back. Poor them with their hardship. Very nicely say no worries but it needs to stop somehow.
• Then radio left on for the dog all day. I have to listen to that in between them waking me every single day shouting at kids.,the screeching, the alarms.
• There's a path that goes through their garden. It's how I get out and to my car. It's annoying for them I get it. But not my problem. They asked to put a gate there when moved in. No problem I say. So what was easy for me and son became more of a pain - but I understand they want their garden nice. So no problem.
• now the dog escapes under the gate so they have been putting this big metal gate thing the builders left against the gate.
• This is the only way I can get out and I hardly go out. They are super lucky with me as a neighbour and have gradually got so cheeky as I go out less etc.
• I should not have to explain - but I have fractured spine, osteoporosis. So so much wrong. I faint easily. It's so so long a list. The arseholes don't know the full details but I explained ' severe health challenges'. That was it.
• 3 times I've moved this gate piece of crap. It's not ok at all and they watch me doing it from their window.
• Firm but fair I text using the words , it has to go please, I can't lift that gate.
• I get a long sob story .it's nice but not nice. Saying you lifted it before so it's not a permanent fixture.And either we leave the gate for you to get out or get a massive vet bill wgeidig escapes 😭
• This is where I started to lose my cool . I was in shock over the CF of this. I text saying that message is not ok with me. Are you serious. Please find another way to stop dog getting out, I really can't keep lifting this to get in and out.
• She didn't like it because clearly expected me to say oh ok sorry. ( This is where I thought - hang on, I give off the vibe I'm a wet people pleaser. Because she would not have done that otherwise surely.)
• I said it needs to go. ( Usually, old me would say oh don't worry etc).
• Go out this evening and I can't get in because the gate is there again after this. I manage to open the normal gate and almost trip over this metal piece of shit trying to get in. She comes out. I with no patience now say ' please move this fucking gate '.as she charges up to move it. She swears off at me in garden about my text and how fucking rude I am. And I'm then being shouted at by this 25 year old CF.

The great news is I just walked on up the path and didn't speak. Because I knew I'd look stupid as my adrenaline was so severe.

My ego was burning up at being spoken to like this. What would a normal person do, not with my history? I am trying so hard to be reasonable and set boundaries.

Can someone tell me am I fucking crazy here please. I honestly am so overwhelmed by people and think am I this problem here.

I've lived here for years and tolerated so much and you are continually blocking my only way out when I find the rare strength to leave.. And refuse to accept my request that it goes. It's a communal right of way in and out.

Joy this is a landlord issue. You're both social housing, she's breaching her tenancy.

There's no way she has rights to prevent you entering and leaving your property. She almost certainly has no permission from landlord for the original gate. Contact them saying both gates need to be removed.

Call police and landlord if you can't gain entry/exit. Stop trying to move the thing, you'll risk injury, it's not acceptable. Take pics. Have your phone recording when you step outside/approach gate. Record them on the sly, get them looking out window and doing nothing, record their reaction when you knock and ask for it to be removed even if phone is just in pocket recording audio. Point out to everyone that if they're not in you're unable to gain access to/from your property so asking them isn't a solution because they might be out. Make notes of any times you couldn't leave or had to wait to enter, due to them being out or not answering door it's unlawful imprisonment or something. Any time they swear at you, any time they send harassing texts etc note it.

It's a communal garden, not an area suitable for turning a dog loose. Does she even have permission for the dog? Communal gardens homes near me are cats only for pets, or small dogs strictly walked from the property only and never turned loose in the communal gardens.

Her vets bills aren't your problem.

If the radio has solved the howling you're stuck with that aspect. Radio is ordinary life noise unless you can prove it's too loud by recording decibels. Dog howling is environmental health/ noise nuisence at the council AND also antisocial behaviour with the landlord. Report it, if radio hasn't fixed it.

Decibel meter/app for the alarm. Record every time it happens. Report to council and landlord. If it's loud enough and it sounds like it is, that'll have to go. They need vibrating alarms instead and to pack it in with the alcohol and drugs that are no doubt incapacitating them.

The baby crying for hours is police welfare check, every time. They'll end up with social services on their case, which sounds like it's warranted, for child neglect. You can report direct to social services too but your complaint will look better if there's been police reports too.

Domestics - you call police if necessary, also record incidences of screaming and shouting and put in antisocial behaviour complaint with landlord. Phone them up while it's happening so they can hear it.

So much of their behaviour constitutes antisocial behaviour and possibly noise nuisence too. The rest of it is life noise. The joy of living in flats and terraces.

Self help - earplugs, sleeping pills etc for yourself. Rearranging your home so you sleep in the least noisy area.

I'm not sure your health necessarily comes into it much (maybe it does?) so focus on their behaviour being anti social and noise nuisence, until you find out if the impact on you counts for anything.

You've done nothing wrong so far (except swearing at her one time?) keeping it that way will strengthen your claim for antisocial behaviour and mean she can't claim tit-for-tat.

@SamAndAnnie I can't tell you how much I appreciate your words. I am aware I sound like I'm bloody 10. It's because I feel it. Being so impaired frightens me so much it's what drives this fear. And fear is what makes me never want to do what you suggest. Which I know I probably have to do. They've shown they don't understand boundaries and will react badly to any attempts. Fear triggers he child in me. She's usually at bay bit today has done out again and I even post like I am 10 when this happens. It was easier in so many ways being the old people pleaser doormat. My spirit just couldn't let me do it anymore.

It's their garden really but I have to walk through it. The path is right of way so no debate you're right. Because I don't go out that much they get used to that. I understand that. And the behaviour becomes awful as they bed in.

You're right though. It is communal and the original gate probably isn't even allowed. I would not want to be a total bitch as they have young kids. That's why I had no issue with that gate.

I actually didn't mention a very immature bit which is I've taken the metal gate away. I said twat very loud whilst doing it. I know. I have lost it hoping my requests would stop them but it hasn't and I've flipped. The gate was left by builders so isn't their property. It's not going back as they absolutely will use it. I have to keep my mouth shut now because I know my reaction is going to make me the problem.

I'm gutted about reporting as they'll get a letter. It will be so uncomfortable as we are right on top of each other.

It's the same old pattern again. I thought I'd broken it. It's please be nice to me and don't hurt me especially as I feel so alone and vulnerable. It is exactly that feeding this. And being terrified when you realise you have to set a boundary that's going to make it no return. I have to walk past and hear them constantly so the worst one to deal with out of my CFs. The others I just lock my door and don't see.

Can you believe I actually feel guilty. But that's the technique. I had three paragraphs when I so politely asked the gate to go. It was about having to worki 6 days a week, no time to get anything that works for the bloody dog, how the dog escaped, vet bills etc etc. This is typical behaviour people do with people like me unfortunately.

Thankyou as always.

I have to walk past and hear them constantly so the worst one to deal with out of my CFs

Headphones! 😁

Them taking the piss is exactly why you have to report the original gate. You gave an inch they took a mile. So remove the inch. Let them see that if they abuse your good nature they'll suffer consequences. Not just "oh well we didn't get away with it this time but we've lost nothing".

The relationship is already dead, no need to worry about killing it further. You can't get back to being amicable at this point. You could lay down and literally die at their feet and they wouldn't appreciate your sacrifice, they'd just curse you for being something they have to step over. You can tell they're not amicable people anyway from the confrontational way they live in general.

@JoyDivision79 do you already use ear defenders? Mine block out a lot but i also feel like I get a proper break from life when I put them on. Blocking out everything let's me calm down and get out of this reactive state when you know whatever you will do or say will come across like words and actions from a lunatic.

Isn’t it sad that in order for us to survive we have to block out the world. I’ve come to realise I’ve done this since I was a child. Apparently it’s very common for ND children to live in alternate realities, create worlds that they can survive in. I guess a lot of disorders do this also. This world is just too much for sensitive people. It’s a constant bombardment on the senses and then all those complicated relationships on top. My life is going through a major cull!

The way I look at it is that all families have roles and rules. That's normal. But in dysfunctional families the roles are imposed on the child rather than the child finding the position that suits them. Everything works until a child realises they've been put into a role that is harming them and steps out of it. But it's like leaving a cult. I actually think a dysfunctional family is a mini cult in it's own right.

@Solace123 I think my position is quite similar to yours. Very few people I would call a friend, and I've only got contact with one family member, my mother, and that's TBH broken. We haven't had any contact in months. But even if I was in contact with her, I couldn't ask for help or support, so the lack of family/loneliness is there whether there's contact or not. Siblings do however get help and support (and money). They obviously got a very different message to me. I also feel like I never properly learned social skills and missed the window a bit there, plus I feel like I tend to attract users (the curse of the people pleaser) so I'm quite withdrawn now. Been burned too many times.

Trigger warning -

Thanks so much lovely @SamAndAnnie . Whoever knows you irl is so very lucky to have you 😘

I do but what's happened is I have awful nerve damage, a compressed Jugular vein and trigeminal neuralgia. I know. I honestly am a freak of nature in all ways.

I do have a nice headband with earphones in.for kids which I've just charged up. It doesn't need go in your ears.

I've contacted the housing association today about the path. I have disposed of the industrial gate which was the builders ' construction leftover anyway. They can bloody sue me.

I have today blocked my ex too. I have tried with all my might. He is emboldening the teen. I tried establish a boundary ref shitty texts when he collects my son who tells a story about me being crazy and over reacting to his behaviour and Andrew Tate style mentality with comments.

I get every hideous and concerning things in my face as the mum. And I'm told Im making it up. I've explained my boundaries quite nicely but firmly. He's just being a dick back as expected so I have politely said I can't be contacted going forward and it's email only. Blocked.

I have my teen this wknd. With neighbour hell. With ex getting told every single thing that feeds a narrative iam losing it. With granny psycho shit stirring. I am so afraid I am going to explode in the worst way if he dares do what he does. I am in such severe pain and am lying here thinking why why why, all these people like this in my life . I am asking for crumbs from them. The absolute basics. Why. I've re fractured my spine I can feel it.

I honestly sometimes wish, actually often, that it would just end for me. It is such a miserable and never ending difficult existence. ( It's not a threat btw).

What is this….is it some left over trauma?

My MIL says that I’m attention seeking. I’m actually in real life quite a happy person, like wearing bright colours, like talking. I don’t require much though to be happy about so I don’t have expensive things or loads of friends I’m just happy about what I have. I also don’t hide in the corner about it, I say and I behave like I like myself. I promote my kids to be loud, to not be shy about who they are. They want to get on stage and sing then so be it. The MiL says kids don’t need after school clubs, they don’t need attention. This confuses me because we all need attention, especially as children. We should be standing with our kids cheering them on. I know she lost her mum young. Is this just coming from her because it’s how she has survived her childhood. She thinks she doesn’t need attention but really everyone needs attention sometimes. When the family get together it’s all false. In my head family is somewhere we talk about real life, we all cheer each other on. Celebrate together etc. I brought up some medicine the doc prescribed me and it scared the shit out of her. She can’t talk about real. She thinks that being happy and loud and
not shy about it is seeking attention. Being happy is just being happy isn’t it. It doesn’t feel like it’s happening because it’s not about her, she doesn’t seem to want attention either, it’s odd! The other son is extremely showing possession wise but this isn’t frowned upon. But he has no friends and no desire to have any. It’s all a bit strange.

She thinks she doesn’t need attention

Or that's what she says, whilst simultaneously ensuring all the attention is on her at all times, even while you're not with her.

She's spouting bollocks, I'd ignore it not waste my energies psychoanalysing it. See how she's subtly manoevered you with her manipulations from feeling happy and contented with your lot, to feeling confused and thinking about her?

"Doesn't want attention", my arse. She wants nothing but!

Do you think so? She doesn’t do anything though, arrange anything so that she can get some attention. It’s weird. I don’t think there is anything wrong with wanting attention and I don’t listen to a word she says. I’ll take attention if someone gives it to me. I tell my kids hell no if you want to be centre stage go for it, if you don’t want to then don’t. One of mine wants to be an actress so she needs to learn how to have attention. Why is attention a bad thing? But like you say it’s seems like she sells this version that attention is disguising (look at me with my bright clothes, wanting to be seen) but surely she wants attention also as it’s a human desire. The bro clearly is desperate for attention as he is visibly trying to out do everyone.

Its covert. But I think I can see that even when it’s your thing she somehow manages to reflect it back on her. Like gifts, she is an amazing gift giver apparently. This one does confuse me with her intentions.

Its like they are both disgusted by but equally desperate for attention.

Strawberry she manipulates everyone, that's what she does. So she gets attention without having to organise anything.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a bit of attention but when it's the the exclusion of everybody else, always, that's not natural.

With her comments about you/your DC "being attention seeking" she's brought your attention back onto her. You're no longer enjoying yourself doing what you like, you're thinking about her and what's going on in her mind. She can't stand anyone else being center of attention for one nanosecond, so she makes snidey insults to get people's focus back onto her.

Saying you're an attention seeker - she's criticizing you, saying children don't need attention - she's criticizing your parenting. It's your punishment for enjoying yourself and letting your mind think about something other than her for one moment.

They can sense when you start to disengage from their shitty dynamics, start thinking for yourself, they sense the threat of it - the sense they're losing control of you, and go into action using some form of manipulation to bring you back into the fold. And it's worked - you've had a nice day/night out somewhere and yet here you are posting about, thinking about her.

Dont worry I’ve had a great day so far, it doesn’t affect me. I like to sort my thoughts because it helps me in general if I encounter it in others. I think I’m great just the way I am and so are my kids! They vibrant and inquisitive and great!

Right so I was thinking…oh god not again. I’ve always had a love hate relationship around attention and being seen. I now think that I had absorbed the scapegoat role (but not very well). I’ve wanted attention but I thought that made me a bad person so I made myself very small in my relationships only I got resentful. My ex obviously thought great a partner who hates attention so I can have it all. But after the decade this pissed me off, I wanted attention sometimes also. I was accused of being an attention seeker. But everyone would want attention if their partner threatened them.
My childhood had set me up.

Golden children get accustomed and addicted to attention so they are totally happy to have it. We feel like dirty little girls looking for some positive attention.

Hi gang,

I need to get this off my chest.

I’m low contact with my self absorbed (at best autistic, at worst narcissistic) mother after a neglectful childhood and poor adult relationship.

its my daughters 15th and we’ve put on a little spread/tea party. My daughter has been having a lot of mental health problems recently with self harming.

i asked my mother if she could spare 1 hour to join us (she lives a 20min walk away).

she said no, because she’s packing up her stuff to move away soon.

1 hour.

1 bloody hour for the struggling granddaughter she never sees.

I’m upset but not surprised.

Needed to get that off my chest. Does anyone relate?

I’m always shocked but not surprised at the disgustingness of these people. Somewhere in the back of our minds we think that somewhere deep inside is a good person, it’s hard to comprehend that this isn’t true. I’m sorry that your mum is a selfish waste of space and I’m sorry for your daughter that sounds hard.

Thank you. I always feel deep gnawing sadness whenever I interact with her. My heart hurts :(

The reality of the situation is just very sad for us. There is sadness in knowing the true nature of someone.

It's devastating. Years and years of therapy and my counsellor so gently and kindly highlighted the reality of who and what my mother is and more importantly will never ever be. Even now I know this, and am virtually NC, I still long for her to be a mum especially as life is so agonisingly difficult. And the disappointment never stops.

I wonder if it's actually possible to ever let go entirely of any hope.

The only advice I can give is to completely end all contact in any way, including anything about your daughter or invites. Even block her so you feel a sense of control over this rejection.

I would look at any other places you can seek support, therapy for you to talk about how hard this situation is for you with daughters MHealth, any support organisations for her, engage the GP. Finding any time to do any of the things that you love if possible.

Knowing you aren't alone.

Yes I let go of hope aged 50 by then I knew she was never going to change and would always control my dad it was actually very freeing

I think the need for a mother, or at least a mother figure, is innate. It's with us from birth, because human babies are altricial and cannot survive without a caregiver. Our mother is the first person we connect with and our relationship with them begins before we're even born. So of course there's pain and grief when that relationship isn't there as it should be. It hurts because we are missing something. Accepting that the mother you have isn't the mother you need doesn't make the need go away. Even now, well into adulthood, I still get a twinge of surprise and jealousy when someone casually says that their parents are helping them with something, or are doing something for them, or that they're looking forward to seeing them. When I was younger and I used to see the things other parents did for their children it was agony. I told myself stories about how my independence made me better than them. Now I know that a 'mature' fifteen year old isn't a good thing, they're a child trying to cope with bad parenting that has forced them to take on responsibilities and roles that they aren't ready for.