Therapist’s child interrupting during session

[CoupleTrouble]

My DH and I have been struggling for over a year. Last year, after I’d been to see a solicitor about a divorce, I agreed to couple therapy to see if we could salvage things/ have a more amicable separation. We’ve been meeting a very reputable relationship therapist weekly since then. She is a well known expert, holds a senior NHS post as well as a private practice and has written a well regarded book. I thought we were in safe hands and maybe we are and I am
over reacting to a one off emergency, hence this post.

We see her privately, online from our home and she is online in her home. She usually has breaks from work during school
holidays, half term etc. We have also said we can’t have sessions when children are at home. I work in healthcare, sometimes I work from home but not in school
holidays as I could be overheard and it would feel like a breach of confidentiality to my patients and also a safeguarding issue for my children to over hear. Some
of my work is with sex offenders, much more is with people who have experienced assaults, and I am also a survivor of sexual assault, it was many, many years ago, but I’m mentioning it as my boundaries may be unusually strict.

Yesterday was our last couple therapy session before a long summer break over the school holidays. Unusually we were talking about sex. It was a very adult conversation and I spoke freely, assuming it was just the three of us who could hear the conversation. Suddenly she said she had to come off the link for a few minutes but that we’d add a few minutes on at the end. When she reconnected the link she said one of her children had been stung by a bee. My DH and I were both quite surprised but both really understanding to her, checking if she was ok and if she was ok to continue. She said she would be responsible for that. We also both mentioned times that our DC have interrupted work. My job involves a lot of putting people at ease and I think I just went into that mode. We both expressed concern for the child who has been stung and were conscious that she might not have an adult with her. The therapist then said we’d have to end at the usual time, after having said she’d add a few minutes. To be honest as it was a hurt child, we were both totally fine with it. I think I was expecting her to reschedule the rest of the session after this happened but maybe that’s my expectations out of kilter.

Today I feel distinctly uneasy. Although my children have rarely interrupted my work, it has always been non clinical work, completely non patient facing, related to a totally different role in another organisation. I have had children off ill from school and either cancelled online clinics or my DH has taken a day off to look after them, and I’ve made arrangements to work from a different location. I’ve never had sole care of a child while also working in a clinical role. It would feel inappropriate. For context my DC are 11 and 14, so could be left on a sofa with a film but I wouldn’t in case they eg vomited or had a fever or needed me for something if they were off sick. I wouldn’t take them in to the clinic base while I did in person work, so I’ve applied the same rule for home and thought everyone does similarly.

I realise paid therapy is different but I had always assumed that her children are at school when we meet. I’m now feeling quite distressed that her child might have heard me talking about my sex life. It feels like a boundary violation and potentially a child protection issue to me. I have no idea how old her DC are, but definitely school age, from her age I’d guess not older teens but hard to be sure. I have struggled with some other aspects of therapy, in particular her neutral stance when we’ve spoken about things that feel deeply misogynistic to me and it’s made me unsure about how power issues and dynamics might be dealt with or avoided. Other than this, we have found her helpful to talk to, my DH more so than me.

Am I over reacting? I feel as if I’d like to write her a note but we don’t usually have any contact between sessions apart from the admin related to booking appointments and receiving the links. Please be kind, I feel quite shaken and know that my reaction may be disproportionate because of my own experiences.

I suppose it has helped me to see that we keep going round in the same cycle, and that my hope for change is just that, a hope, it isn’t based on any reality. My DH says the right things in therapy, and we have some good times as a family, but as a couple, there isn’t really anything worth salvaging. She often says “I think he does care about you” or that he feels frightened of emotion, and I increasingly think, well how many years should I wait for that to change. So it has helped me see that I need to prioritise myself and my own happiness.

It seems to me that your husband would benefit from individual therapy to work on the specific issues you mention, but of course that would only help if he recognises the issue and wants to change it. I've never had couples therapy, but it seems as though she's working on the assumption that it's the dynamic between you that needs fixing, when maybe actually your husband needs to work on his inability to discuss feelings before the relationship can work.

It’s really interesting (and helpful) to hear that perspective. I (apparently) had postnatal depression after our second child was born. I think I became depressed because my husband checked out of our relationship while I was pregnant, had an emotional affair and made a major career change without telling me, it had massive financial implications and I ended up having to go back to some part time work when the baby was weeks old, as I was suddenly our main provider. It turned my world upside down.

At that time, I was offered medication and therapy. The therapist said she thought I had an unsupportive DH but the psychiatrist said he thought I needed medication to move to a place where I could use the therapy more effectively. I had private therapy for a couple of years and several
times the therapist suggested my husband might find therapy helpful. He went to a service though his former workplace. They basically screened for PTSD, wrote a report saying he had some adjustment issues but was basically fine and offfered CBT. He went to a few sessions of CBT, said he’d learned he’s good at compartmentalising but essentially waved the report saying no PTSD as proof there’s nothing wrong with him and that it’s all my fault.

He does blame others for things that go wrong, and finds it hard to accept responsibility for anything, whether that’s in the workplace or with friends and family. Four years ago I wanted to leave, he begged me to stay, was in tears, said he’d have therapy. He went to some sort of colour therapist. He wouldn’t tell me much about the methods but went three times, with huge gaps of several weeks in between. It sounded a little like life coaching. He said it was very helpful but nothing changed for me in the marriage.

One of the reasons I’ve stayed in couple therapy is that it is the first time that he’s been anything close to confiding or self reflective. However, I often feel he goes through the motions, says things and appears emotional when there is talk of breaking up, but doesn’t change or behave differently between sessions.

That last paragraph reminds me a bit of my experience of couples therapy. Our therapist was very good, but I think what happened was that we could communicate with her weekly support, but fundamentally we weren't able to connect in real life. So it prolonged the relationship. It did I think make our divorce more amicable and we had a lot of trauma as a family over those two years, so I don't really regret it.

It sounds to me as if you are twisting yourself around trying to persuade your husband to communicate and to make therapy work. The comment about the work only just beginning does not sound great, and there are lots of reasons to be concerned here even before the issue of a child potentially overhearing your conversation.

Trust your instincts. It's good that you are at a break with this therapist now. You don't have to go back

You've really been through a lot in this relationship. I feel quite angry on your behalf that your psychiatrist basically said you needed "fixing" with medication, when you had good reason (the effects of your husband's behaviour) to feel pissed off and sad!

Trouble is, you can't force someone to change and especially so if they can't see there's a problem.

@CoupleTrouble I've lost the post I was going to quote, but you said "I feel like she hasn't been careful with what we told her" and I think that's what matters most here. I'd see that as irreparable damage to the therapist/client relationship because it feels like your trust has been broken. Whether the therapist was in the wrong or not is almost irrelevant; the relationship is damaged

This is one of the reasons that I turned down online counselling. There is absolutely no way for me to know that what I'm saying cannot be overheard by others, whatever assurances the counsellor might try to give me.

Opening up to a stranger is hard enough without having to wonder who else might be in earshot.

I would personally seek individual therapy with a new therapist. A woman, older. I really struggle with couples therapy and some risks with this if the therapist is not fully aware and exceptionally experienced and insightful as a person.

Thank you. So I’ve actually had this, twice over, individual therapy with middle aged/ older women. I saw the last one until her retirement and she told me that she recommended ending, rather than her handing me over to a colleague as she felt it was my husband who needed to work on himself and a lot of emotion I was bringing related to his stuff. The previous therapist had said similar.

Both conversations left me feeling disloyal to my husband. He is very charming and superficially, people think he’s great, a real life and soul of the party. However, in closer relationships I’ve noticed people get frustrated with his flakiness and forgetfulness, find him hard to pin down and try to broker a lot of the social contact through me.

He’s from a very male-dominated professional background and catches up with groups of males from
that background often, and regularly has quite intense relationships with younger women where he can act as some sort of guide or mentor. I’ve felt there was quite a weird romantic overtone to some of those friendships, and he generally keeps them
secret, lies about who is seeing and when.

Because he’s fun and charming, and also bright and engaging to chat to, I feel as if he gets away with quite a lot socially and with family. His friends
persist for months if he doesn’t call back for example and he’s very good at sorting out complicated issues that people might struggle with at work, so he has a lot of loyalty. There’s always an ‘ah, but…’ and I feel like a miserable killjoy who just wants a dependable husband who has my back, doesn’t lie to me, and keeps his word. He can be good fun, says he’s proud of me, will buy thoughtful gifts if he’s been away, but the day to day care and intimacy that keep relationships alive have been missing for many years.

Writing all this down has made me feel so sad 😞 I hadn’t intended to open up so much, just to check out the boundary question and my reaction but everyone has been really kind. I’ve realised it’s over and that I’ve probably known that for a long time.

I agree with this. When my daughter had counselling online, her person made these things clear, so she felt safe

What you describe regarding charm etc is why I suggested solo therapy. I have had therapy for 15 years. I wouldn't ever feel ready to stop I think quite often. Because - there is no safe space for us really to try make sense of things about us and others and what it means. Family and friends are always going to be bias or have no understanding.

With a partner who can be charming, I do believe there's this capacity to almost woo a female therapist. And they therefore might even unintentionally fail to pick up certain things.

It feels like you are operating above and beyond what you should to try fix things in the relationship. I imagine you do most the legwork.

I really don't like the sound of this therapist. Many therapists can be appalling. Some unintentionally of course. The vibe is not feeling right to me. You have written a post because you feel it so strongly.

You could look at researching a few therapists again. A new one and look and see what feels right. The therapy could be for you alone and a means to help further unpick what's going on for you on the relationship. Not for you to change to fix it btw. Or for you to help your husband. I really don't buy into short term therapy. I believe if we all pursued it regularly we'd have significantly less issues.

Do you ever watch Couples Therapy on BBC iPlayer. I really enjoy that. She is great. It gives you so much insight into couple dynamics.

If she was solely responsible for the child while working I think that’s not ok. If the child was home sick from school she should have either arranged childcare or explained and cancelled the session.

I feel like a miserable killjoy who just wants a dependable husband who has my back, doesn’t lie to me, and keeps his word.

This is the bare minimum you can expect from a partner, you are not unreasonable to want this. Being fun and charming are the things that make someone initially attractive but if there's nothing deeper then what's the point? It's sad for him really because how will he ever form really meaningful relationships if he has no emotional depth?

Wishing you well as you move onto the next phase of your life.

Your husband changed his career without telling you so there was t enough money and you had to go back to work very early? I don't think that's a therapy issue tbh and is an exame of how real life events sometimes gets over medicalised. As far as this therapist is concerned, I agree with other posters - a therapeutic boundary was crossed and if you want to continue with her you need you talk to her and make sure that you are comfortable with the arrangements her end. But if DH had done that to me I wouldn't have gone for therapy, that's for sure. I would have been totally enraged.

have you ever been able to explore the concept of loyalty you just brought up in your recent post and what your interpretation of being disloyal means to you and for you? Sounds like you had a strong message from that retiring therapist who didn't refer you on as they maybe saw you were staying in therapy to try to change your DH and understood that wasn't going to happen?

Hey OP, apologies for this delayed reply to your last reply to what I asked. I wanted to make sure I had time to respond properly.

Yes, sure, 'the relationship is the client'. But your relationship is made up of two people, with two different backgrounds, brains, personalities, experiences and associated feelings. Couples therapy should take all of that into account and view things through the lens of the relationship, and how all those differences interact. How can she witness the way your individual emotions and feelings interact, and objectively examine them for discussion, when only one of you is present? That wasn't couples therapy, that was individual therapy.

The sisterhood comment was patronising and weird. Minimisation and dismissal of your feelings.

'Most women would just be happy for a nice meal out' is more minimisation, and does indicate he would rather you didn't feel strongly about things... that would be nice and easy for him.

He doesn't accept that rape culture is a thing... I suppose possibly because to see and understand it, you'd have to have experienced it, or have empathy.

It sounds like a real lack of empathy from your partner, with very little emotional intelligence and depth. I'm really sorry, those are abilities and skills that are difficult to learn, and it doesn't seem like he even knows he is lacking...

My sons dad also tried to make me believe that I had PND after he was born. Actually, I was just upset with him for his lack of support and terrible selfish attitude and decisions that impacted me and our future significantly. Pathologising reasonable reactions to stressful circumstances is just scapegoating, at best. It actually felt more like emotional abuse. "I can do shitty things, and if you're upset and hurt, then you need medication" essentially. Lovely.

We did split up due to the way he saw things and behaved.
I think an emotional affair with a coworker was also on the cards, but I sniffed it out a mile off (he denied it) and he seemed to drop it before it got anywhere... the mentionitis disappeared, anyway. He did sleep with her during the split, however! Funny, that.

We got back together around 18 months later, which had given him time to have a long hard look at himself, and I'd strengthened my own boundaries. He also had to watch me attempt to move on. He was angry at first and acted like a twat, then when he realised I was serious about the split, he was devastated. My party line never changed. Until he took accountability for the ways he hurt me and by extension our son, and started to truly see me and respect me, alongside making significant lifestyle changes, I was done.
It took a while, and I actually didn't think we would get back together at all.

He can still be selfish and uncaring at times. It really does feel like the parts of his brain that are responsible for certain types of empathy have limited connectivity. Maybe that's the same for your husband.
He's just learnt to respect me more now, I think, so when I point it out it seems to register more and his behaviour improves.

I'd have to agree with your former therapists. I do think it's your partner who needs the individual therapy, but talking therapy is probably just going to keep him intellectualising his emotions. It's a shame MDMA assisted couples therapy isn't more available, he wouldn't be able to escape feeling his feelings and empathy then!

I wish you the best of luck with however things materialise for you and happiness for the future, whether that's with someone else or just being without this disconnected relationship.

Thank you for the good wishes. I am starting to feel as if I’m on my way to better times.

Until recently I felt sorry that my husband doesn’t have any deeper connections but I honestly think he likes it like this. The therapist has often said we are both longing for a deeper emotional connection but both don’t manage to connect. I’ve been correcting that for several weeks now and saying that while it’s true I want that, I honestly don’t know that my husband doesn’t too. He seems to prefer the superficial stuff and I don’t think he really gets what I am asking for. He often looks at me as if I’m speaking a foreign language but in sessions he has a very British stiff upper lip persona, and acts as if he’s hearing this all for the first time.

I started to notice that his family relationships are like this. My MIL calls, asks how we are, he says everything is fine, she says everything is fine, and that’s the extent of their relationship. She’s like that with her grandchildren, everything is always fine. My late FIL was very cool and distant but had a great sense of humour, which we connected over, but he was definitely not an emotional person. My DHs siblings are similar. I’ve mentioned this in therapy but it’s all broughtt back to the dynamic. I wonder if they are just not emotionally connective people. They’re all nice, but I couldn’t say I know them at all after all these years.

I can relate to that - I don't think I've ever had a conversation with any of my in-laws that's been deeper than "would you like a cup of tea? One of them is a therapist - make of that what you will!

There’s a clear divide in the answers you’ve received on here OP; between those who work in the field or who’ve received excellent, boundaried therapy, and those whose understanding is based more on expectations of those in the caring and helping professions generally. This isn’t meant a criticism, by the way. The world of therapy is unique (and pretty strange when you first encounter it!).
I’ve been lucky enough or determined enough over the years to have been able to find and pay for therapy of the highest standard. Initially through the NHS when I was almost as low as a human being can go, and latterly privately and pre emptively when I knew I was going to need it, and sometimes also when I’ve had a knotty issue to sort out that I realised was connected to my inner workings and childhood “stuff”.
Therapy probably saved my life that first time. It broke me down - made me question what I was even made of - and enabled me to build myself up again with very different perspectives on my behaviour and my relationships. Over the years it’s enabled me at crucial times to take a step back, view things afresh, sometimes conclude that I’ve been cruel and unkind to others, and sometimes understand that I’ve not stood up for myself when it would have been better for all concerned if I had. With the help of therapy I was even able to take a new approach to my relationship with my mother, and that’s meant that she I are now enjoying spending time together as she approaches the end of her life - something I could never, ever have believed was possible.
The process has often been painful. I’ve told my latest therapist things about myself that it physically hurt me to say. I have wondered at times who I even was. I’ve had to look at myself very long and hard and frequently not liked what I’ve seen.
I can’t imagine what I’d have been without these boundaried conversations . And boundaries for me are the key. I like the dress sense of my current therapist but I’d never ask her where she bought her clothes. I know nothing about her except the skill she brings into the room. She on the other hand “sees” the whole of me - stuff I would never reveal to friends or family. I don't know where she lives, what family she has if any … and I most definitely do not want to know.
Without these clear boundaries including those relating to times, the space we meet in, payment, cancellation terms, I would not be able to maintain the focus and trust in her (and previous therapists) that’s enabled me to open myself up as I have done.
There are of course different modalities and approaches and there are some approaches which aim to treat a specific issue within a certain time frame.
However, I can barely imagine being in the OPs situation, broaching that raw and painful area of sexual intimacy within which the oldest and goriest wounds can be opened, and having an interruption of the sort described. I think it would have made me feel … humiliated …. Disrespected … not “held” but dropped, with huge anxiety about who might have heard what.
It would have destroyed my trust and respect in the therapist’s professionality and would probably have shut me down for good.
OP, your concerns are entirely justified. I can’t really understand how the situation could have happened, as having a child in the house is fairly likely to lead to the unexpected!
As for what you do now, you have big decisions to make and I’m sure you’ll make the correct ones.
I just wanted to affirm and confirm that you are not “over reacting”, being silly or anything else that might have gone through your mind. You are spot on.
I noticed that some people had misread what you’d said in quoting your therapist’s “sisterhood” comment. They were angry quite rightly on your behalf but for not quite the right reason. What she said was weird.
Good for you for raising this here and opening up an important discussion.

I’m feeling quite inarticulate today, but wanted to say thank you for reading the thread so thoughtfully, for sharing your own experiences and for offering so much empathy. You’ve helped me put my own feelings into words. I’m really grateful.