Therapist’s child interrupting during session

[CoupleTrouble]

My DH and I have been struggling for over a year. Last year, after I’d been to see a solicitor about a divorce, I agreed to couple therapy to see if we could salvage things/ have a more amicable separation. We’ve been meeting a very reputable relationship therapist weekly since then. She is a well known expert, holds a senior NHS post as well as a private practice and has written a well regarded book. I thought we were in safe hands and maybe we are and I am
over reacting to a one off emergency, hence this post.

We see her privately, online from our home and she is online in her home. She usually has breaks from work during school
holidays, half term etc. We have also said we can’t have sessions when children are at home. I work in healthcare, sometimes I work from home but not in school
holidays as I could be overheard and it would feel like a breach of confidentiality to my patients and also a safeguarding issue for my children to over hear. Some
of my work is with sex offenders, much more is with people who have experienced assaults, and I am also a survivor of sexual assault, it was many, many years ago, but I’m mentioning it as my boundaries may be unusually strict.

Yesterday was our last couple therapy session before a long summer break over the school holidays. Unusually we were talking about sex. It was a very adult conversation and I spoke freely, assuming it was just the three of us who could hear the conversation. Suddenly she said she had to come off the link for a few minutes but that we’d add a few minutes on at the end. When she reconnected the link she said one of her children had been stung by a bee. My DH and I were both quite surprised but both really understanding to her, checking if she was ok and if she was ok to continue. She said she would be responsible for that. We also both mentioned times that our DC have interrupted work. My job involves a lot of putting people at ease and I think I just went into that mode. We both expressed concern for the child who has been stung and were conscious that she might not have an adult with her. The therapist then said we’d have to end at the usual time, after having said she’d add a few minutes. To be honest as it was a hurt child, we were both totally fine with it. I think I was expecting her to reschedule the rest of the session after this happened but maybe that’s my expectations out of kilter.

Today I feel distinctly uneasy. Although my children have rarely interrupted my work, it has always been non clinical work, completely non patient facing, related to a totally different role in another organisation. I have had children off ill from school and either cancelled online clinics or my DH has taken a day off to look after them, and I’ve made arrangements to work from a different location. I’ve never had sole care of a child while also working in a clinical role. It would feel inappropriate. For context my DC are 11 and 14, so could be left on a sofa with a film but I wouldn’t in case they eg vomited or had a fever or needed me for something if they were off sick. I wouldn’t take them in to the clinic base while I did in person work, so I’ve applied the same rule for home and thought everyone does similarly.

I realise paid therapy is different but I had always assumed that her children are at school when we meet. I’m now feeling quite distressed that her child might have heard me talking about my sex life. It feels like a boundary violation and potentially a child protection issue to me. I have no idea how old her DC are, but definitely school age, from her age I’d guess not older teens but hard to be sure. I have struggled with some other aspects of therapy, in particular her neutral stance when we’ve spoken about things that feel deeply misogynistic to me and it’s made me unsure about how power issues and dynamics might be dealt with or avoided. Other than this, we have found her helpful to talk to, my DH more so than me.

Am I over reacting? I feel as if I’d like to write her a note but we don’t usually have any contact between sessions apart from the admin related to booking appointments and receiving the links. Please be kind, I feel quite shaken and know that my reaction may be disproportionate because of my own experiences.

Completely unprofessional. If her children are there and she’s having confidential therapy conversations (irregardless of whether they’re about sex or not) she needs them out of the room with someone else. I’m sure she has the money for a babysitter.

had she herself been stung she’d have been valid to go off screen and add more minutes on.

i would be seeking out another therapist.

I agree with this. I had a therapist who told me what her husband had just texted her, went on about the heating, had a conversation with someone outside the open window, really appalling.
It's totally unprofessional that she was in sold charge of her child during a session you were paying her for. You also lost time which she didn't make up. The fact that she had to break off for a few minutes wouldn't have helped either. Find another therapist.

@CoupleTrouble Sounds like he's not on your team, and she's on his team. He asked(/pressured) you to compromise your values for his sake, and you did. My question would be... How appreciative of this was he afterwards, how much did he value it overall? Did he reassure you and say that he would tackle this in his own way? Did he say he thought it was all completely out of line, etc?
Like, did he care about your feelings? Did he take care of you after you compromised yourself for him? Or does he wish you didn't have those values in the first place?

It's not hard to see why him essentially colluding in misogyny (which is the foundation of rape culture) would feel distressing. He's supposed to be the safe one, the one who protects you. If you're questioning his backbone in these matters, it might make you feel quite unsafe around him.

Does he know and understand your history? Did the therapist? I'm surprised she didn't connect it to your feelings surrounding the workplace misogyny.

"Betrayed by the sisterhood."

Um, wuuutt?

I'd be very uncomfortable with the same therapist doing both marital and individual (in fact I would refuse individual), my thoughts are it's a type of dual relationship that doesn't meet the goals of marital and individual therapy, but that's an argument here. Some do but I'm not a fan and along with not giving you the agreed on extra time and sisterhood talk, not addressing misogyny, and the possible breach of confidentiality....

There's some definite red flags with your therapist.

But, the examples you give there were pretty well outside the therapist’s control. Deciding to have sole charge of a child during a session was not.

Sounds like you've been seeing her for a long time with no improvement for you, I wouldn't go back if it was me. This wouldn't be bothering you if you fully trusted her and therapy with someone you don't trust is pointless.

Being senior in the NHS and publishing a book does not automatically make someone a great therapist. Other attributes than being a great therapist can get you those things. They may not be good at being challenged. I wouldn't risk my psychological safety by doing so.

OP you're the client and your concerns are 100% valid.

Speaking as a therapist who does online work only when necessary:

Online therapy needs VERY strict boundaries and transparency.

• Headphones always for both parties(with a microphone, preferably)
• discussion about both parties having a private place to do the session
• no background or blurring on the therapist's screen - client needs to be assured that nobody is around in the T's space
• T should not interrupt the session for anything that they wouldn't interrupt it for in an inperson session.

During sessions therapists don't (or shouldn't!) take phone calls, check email, answer the doorbell, speak to the postie, pet their dog, interact with other people, or go to the toilet, in person in an office; neither should they when working at home.

The only reasons to interrupt should be fire alarms or genuine emergencies e.g. something that would involve a colleague knocking on the door to get them.

If you were seeing her in an office and her child got stung by a bee at home or school, assuming the child's not allergic, nobody would consider that necessitated interrupting a session for.

Therapists of all people shouldn't be doing child care while working.

It sounds like a few minor things have built up, and you're irritated with her overall.

However, just on the issue of her child interrupting, I think you are potentially over reacting without knowing the fuller picture. Unless I've missed this, you don't know another adult wasn't in the house. It could be eg. she has a garden office, the child was in the garden and went to her first instead of the other parent. If the child is younger, they may interrupt even if they've been told not to disturb her. Yes, therapy is a protected space, but therapists are human and mishaps happen. You also don't know if the child could have heard or not - perfectly probable that they wouldn't even if outside the door.

Therapists are human. I would raise your concerns in an email, and see how she responds. Therapy is about relationships, and it gives her the chance to repair the rupture or at least to answer your concerns.

You're also definitely within your rights to ask for a discount for the missed time (how long did it take? Has she given you any extra time in previous sessions or been flexible e.g. running over if you've had connectivity problems, or is she herself very strict about this?).

However, ultimately you're paying for a service and you therefore don't have to continue if you don't want to/ don't feel its worth it.

I’d be pissed off her kids were there without another adult as it means she’d be listening with half an ear the whole time prior to the bee sting.

Very unprofessional and shit behaviour . I’d be freaked out by that

OP - you are right to feel uncomfortable. Not ok with me.

You're feeling uncomfortable about other things too.

I'd really consider going elsewhere. A good therapist will tell you to trust yourself. Trust yourself.

I am not a therapist but had about 15 years of it 😆

hmmmm I have worked with a pysch and I would be very uneasy if I knew another person was around at all. In the circumstance you reported I would acknowledge that the therapist is human, but I would also acknowledge that expectation of trust, privacy and focus had been broken.

In this cirucmstance I would speak to your partner and check whether you wish to proceed with this therapist.

I only read the first page but I cannot believe people are defending this therapist. What she did is completely unacceptable.

Unprofessional.
She shouldn’t have been looking after a child whilst getting paid to provide a service- apply this situation to other jobs.

From your posts you don’t sound like you want to save your marriage and that’s fine. No amount of therapy is going to change that in some cases, sometimes things just don’t work out.

That is beyond unprofessional. I would report her.

She has said that the client is the relationship, not either of us, and while that makes sense at an intellectual level, there are times when the neutrality has felt hurtful. He says nothing about compromises, or about the sexism, because he just does not talk about feelings, that is why I agreed to go to therapy. If I say how I feel, he either shuts it down quickly, sits in silence or leaves the room.

The therapy was in part to work this out. She works a lot with separating and divorcing couples, and we had talked about all options at different times.

I cannot check with my partner because he does not speak to me about anything emotional. If I ask him anything, he says it is fine, or offers a dog walk or asks if I want to watch TV. He deflects or redirects any conversation about anything emotional, even about the therapy and what happens there. He says it is useful because he can say things, but he does not talk to me at other times.

She is very strict about time and payment and this is part of her model. We have never run over. I don’t think she is in a garden office, it looks like an attic/ loft conversion with sloped ceilings. She suddenly looked distracted, looked away from the camera and I felt anxious because it appeared as if someone may have come into the room. She said “sorry I will have to switch off for a few minutes and we will have an extra few minutes at the end.” She then emailed to say she was back on the link. We reconnected and she said she had seen a note, I think her exact words were “a note was held up” which made me think a child had come into the room holding the note, but I can’t remember exactly, and that in the note her DC had said she had been stung by a bee and was asking for help. As we approached the usual finish time she said I will need to finish on time and then we were into practical details about the summer.

Thank you for this. Just to clarify, she doesn’t do both couple and individual. Her model is that we both had an individual session close to the start of the therapy, where she asked about early life, family background and leaving home. There were other times, eg when she or we couldn’t all make our usual session time, when she offered us individual sessions with the other person’s agreement. It has mostly worked except for two occasions, one the sisterhood comment and secondly when she offered my DH a session when I was away and said it would “stand in” for both of us, because the client is the relationship. I didn’t feel included when I was not there, but respect that her model of helping works like that and didn’t want to be difficult or obstructive. I’ve separately felt that quite a lot has been extrapolated from some of the early individual sessions that did not always feel relevant, as if our difficulties were being shoehorned into a template.

He does know, it’s pretty obvious in lots of things that I do and say at home and at work that equality matters to me. He doesn’t agree about rape culture, if I try to have those conversations, he presents counterarguments, almost as if I am living with a lawyer. He is very articulate, good at arguing intellectually, but really struggles to connect to how I am feeling. He can be very forceful about getting his way, very stubborn, and I am often left reeling, as if my emotions are just collateral damage in him getting what he wants. When I was upset about the dinner he told me most women would be enjoy a nice meal out and not find something to complain about. To see that spun as his expertise in when to speak up (he does not speak up) was hard, and that she raised it in an individual session made me think she had perhaps wondered if she had got that right, or was trying not to overtly challenge him in case he felt threatened and didn’t come back. `When I give real life examples in sessions, she almost always says these things are distractions from the dynamic. I understand there is an unhelpful dynamic between us, but these things don’t feel like distractions, they are a big part of life.

This person doesn't sound like a very good therapist regardless of this last experience. It's a safeguarding issue for her to ensure her children can't accidentally hear something potentially harmful, which hopefully she'll take more steps to prevent. You can't know if she routinely let's them hear , doesn't care if they hear , encourages them to hear ,enjoys that they hear , which would be a safeguarding matter generally. From what you say this isn't the case. But she isn't a good therapist and the arrangement doesn't sound like it's helping.

I can fully understand your concern. Why wasn’t the child at school or was it out of school hours? I would have expected there to be another adult looking after the child whilst she’s at work but I’m guessing she doesn’t have anyone. Agree a bee sting is an emergency as you can have an allergic reaction. All you can do is ask her and raise your concerns. As a professional I am sure she would ensure her child is in a separate room to her sessions and cannot hear but do ask her for your peace of mind

Really, really unprofessional. She should not be running sessions with an unsupervised child in the house.
That would end it for me and I would report her to the BACP.
Imagine going for a smear test and a child walking in? You can feel that vulnerable in therapy it’s about absolute trust.
I once went to a therapist whose practice was in the conservatory of her large home. No other people present but her dog howled for an hour. She also got a text halfway through and said she needed to let some men deliver some furniture!
This was a very experienced therapist.
Next!

Thank you. It was in the middle of the day, in term time, so no, I didn’t expect there to be a child.

The emotional equivalent of a smear test was exactly how it felt. I had a huge sense of wanting to make sure the child was ok, and the mother ie the therapist was ok, but when the session was over, I was feeling out of kilter and thinking I am not sure that was ok.