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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I don't know how to move forward... again...

62 replies

Girlmum2024 · 23/06/2025 17:01

Rather than continue the old thread I wanted to start a new one. This is the old thread - thank you to everyone who replied and helped.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5306368-i-dont-know-how-to-move-forward?latest=1

So, by way of update – I went on the holiday. We barely spoke – he barked at me twice “So, are you going to fix it or not”. You can imagine my response. He becomes increasingly vile when I don’t play to it. We sorted it out when we got home (me weakening when he was talking to me without hostility about something and I just grabbed the opening and went and hugged him) and then as per usual things were amazing and I question myself and why I made such a fuss – I even felt a little ashamed of this thread. Made a huge effort for his bday and things were good, including in the bedroom. Then he went away for business for a week. It was fine for 24hrs after he returned but I’d had a UTI and was on antibiotics and we didn’t have sex for a few days (literally only a few days). He was becoming increasingly withdrawn (normal with everyone else but cold to me, no affection, no engagement, light “peck” back when I go to hug and kiss him to soften him up) and so I decided to raise it gently with him and said “this is an example of what I am talking about when you withdraw, I find it so hard to speak to you or be close to you when you withdraw”. He knows EXACTLY what I mean. But his response was confusion and “what do you mean, you haven’t been near me for weeks and you still haven’t dealt with the note”.

I shouldn’t have been surprised but my jaw was on the floor – really??? Really??? I'm afraid I lost it. Told him there was no way in hell I was doing this again. None. I told him we were done and asked him to leave. I saw red. I can’t deal with the merry go round. NOTHING HAPPENED so WTF are we here again. You can’t keep bringing up the same letter from over a year ago. Even IF there are still things outstanding – how on gd’s green earth does it justify discarding me like that? It hurts so fucking much and fills me with continuous anxiety. How can anyone live like that? Why would you be so cold like that to someone you love? Just why?

So, we’ve not really spoken since. He’s not left but I have never been more resolved to not do this again. I physically can’t even if I wanted to. I literally don’t have an ounce of energy for it. I must be an idiot. It’s always been like this but in the last year it’s literally every few weeks, it is making me go insane.

Anyway.

There’s been another note.

This one was seemingly written to himself (the note is entitled “how to find the courage to leave when you are no longer being respected). This note was left casually lying on his desk in his home office. I’m certain it was left for me to find. His father had popped round to say hi and walked into the office (I watched with interest as my husband subtly placed a book over the note). Later, he removed the book. He left the note sitting there all weekend. Who leaves such a private note lying on top of the desk?

He is now away on business for a week. After he left, I saw he’d tidied the desk and left the note sticking out of a very small notebook.

This is the first para of the note word for word after the title.

Long term continual abuse. All points towards stonewalling with a touch of gaslighting (vis a vis having discussed things) as opposed to simple narcissim – only 40-50% criteria fit. Will not admit it – classic stonewalling in every sense. Evidence laid out* but will not engage. Refuses to do anything to make me think she is committed to working things out.

*presume this means in the 8 pager he sent me

Then followed by a long list of all the nasty things I have said in the history of our marriage. Then continued…

I am not willing any longer to forgo intimacy and by habitual refusal to have sex she has forfeited my fidelity.

It then goes on about me needing therapy to deal with my issues and perhaps he will raise that with me.

He then tails it with the title written in bold again.

I don’t know why I am posting other than I just need to talk and get it off my chest – I am not sure its advice I need. Unless, am I missing something? I keep asking myself that, and then revert to my firm resolve and then question again. I just need to talk about it as I have not told anyone yet IRL and I have a constant low-level anxiety coupled with feelings of excitement that I could finally be free… and then again worry I am missing something.

OP posts:
JoyousPoet · 23/06/2025 17:17

He is an abusive arsehole engaging in classic DARVO (Denial Anger Reversal of Victim and Offender).

Use this week to have a free consultation with a solicitor and speak to your local DA service first.

Good luck OP, you have got this. 💐

Confusedorabused · 23/06/2025 17:55

Oh OP it's the abuser turning himself into a victim, they love to do that. Don't fall for it. You know it, you see it.
Get your ducks in a row this week and divorce, he reckons you have "forfeited fis fidelity" anyway so tell him he has no need for being faithful anymore as he is free!

Girlmum2024 · 23/06/2025 18:28

Thanks - I just can't get my head round that I have been so stupid for more than 20 years. That I have literally lied to myself for so so long. That I have doubted myself all this time. And I still am. I can't explain it - I just can't get past it. I feel like I can't unsee it and then I worry my mind is playing tricks on me. It's exhausting.

OP posts:
BreadInCaptivity · 23/06/2025 18:57

As pp’s have already posted, this is classic abusive tactics designed to keep you off balance and questioning yourself.

You need to contact both a solicitor and a DV helpline. The former to get cracking on a divorce before he does and secure the best solicitor locally and the latter to have someone who is has seen this exact playbook multiple times over.

Your husband won’t change. He will just keep upping the pressure and gaslighting, collecting “evidence” through his texts and letters to prove he is right.

Keep his letters/texts. They don’t prove what he thinks they do. Quite the reverse. Photograph the one to “himself” that he clearly left for you to read to try and intimidate you.

He’s a bad, bad man who doesn’t deserve any affection or intimacy.

Get your ducks in a row and get your paperwork together. Savings, general bank accounts, mortgage details, his payslips/pension etc etc.

Start squirrelling money away (a good idea if you have a joint account is to buy a supermarket gift card every time you do the food shop).

This bastard will suck everything you’ve left to give if you let him and he’ll enjoy doing it - yes he knows what he’s doing and he gets a kick out of doing it - affection/sex isn’t his “drug”, it’s power and control.

Every time you hug him when you don’t want to, every text, every kiss tastes sweeter because he MADE you give it to him.

Remember that.

JoyousPoet · 23/06/2025 19:24

That’s what they do. He’s spent 20 years conditioning you to doubt yourself and feel like you can’t see past the fog and confusion.

You do have clarity now. Speak to the National DA helpline or local DA organisations. They will help you to understand what you’ve been through and help you with next steps. Xx

OchreRaven · 23/06/2025 19:44

He is enjoying the drama. He loves keeping you ‘on your toes’ guessing what will make him happy. He’s completely delusional and abusive. And he’s told you he won’t be faithful now. He doesn’t think you are serious about leaving him. I wouldn’t mention the note, just start talking about the practicalities of separation.

Girlmum2024 · 23/06/2025 19:45

I have taken a photo of the note - just can't decide if I should let him know I have read it or make him wonder.

I did speak to Refuge and they said that me feeling like I have to have sex to keep the peace is sexual abuse - never thought of it like that before. I often have to force myself because I know that will be the only way he will be loving to me again. I know how awful that sounds when I write it down but at the time I don't think of it that way - he is so wonderful afterwards that I just feel happy and determined not to let us go wrong again. Every single time.

I am worried as well that I have been stupid financially. We have a joint mortgage but I pay it in full from my salary, plus all the house bills, plus all the childcare and much of the food shopping. I have nothing leftover at the end of the month. He pays for big house purchases or any building work, holidays, tuition fees when we've had them and our car and puts money away for our savings and into the kids accounts and a lot into his pension. But now I am worried as we don't have a joint account and I don't have any access to that money. I don't even know exactly how much there is. I know I need to see a lawyer asap (though I have no spare cash to pay for one - I literally have zero money set aside as everything that comes in goes straight out - I never thought I would need to worry about it).

OP posts:
Girlmum2024 · 23/06/2025 19:48

OchreRaven · 23/06/2025 19:44

He is enjoying the drama. He loves keeping you ‘on your toes’ guessing what will make him happy. He’s completely delusional and abusive. And he’s told you he won’t be faithful now. He doesn’t think you are serious about leaving him. I wouldn’t mention the note, just start talking about the practicalities of separation.

It is sad to say that I am now hoping he does cheat to make my life easier. Black and white. I genuinely feel like I don't care now - 6 months ago I think I still did. I just think he is too smart to let me find out by accident.

OP posts:
FateAmenableToChange · 23/06/2025 20:01

So on top of the sexual and emotional abuse, he is also financially abusive. Having you spend every last penny on the day to day costs, while his money is your 'savings'. Except you have no access and dnt even know how much it is - that is financial abuse.
Ultimately when leaving it pretty much boils down to money. Unless youre going to argue over children, sorry havent read your previous post so I dont know if thats an issue.
So getting on top of the financial situation is very important. Unless you have a lot of money to throw at lawyers and forensics accountants, you need to understand what the full financial picture is. To that end, I would try to get back into his good books if you can to but yourself time to figure all that out. Look for statements on pension and investments. Try to get logins if you can, although I expect he guards all that. The more you know, the better position you will be in.
Disengage from his bullshit, and work on getting yourself in the best position you can to be free of this unself-aware, immature, sex pest.

Girlmum2024 · 23/06/2025 20:45

Yeah, that's good advice. We don't have any assets apart from the house and the (his) savings which he invests in various ISAs and stocks and I have a rough idea but I do need to get my ducks in a row. I wonder if lawyers will work on the basis of taking payment from a divorce settlement. I just wouldn't have the money to pay without asking him to pay for it. I have some research to do.

OP posts:
OchreRaven · 23/06/2025 20:51

Can you make up a big house expense you need money for? or pretend to book a holiday? His savings and pensions are 50% yours so you aren’t taking what is his but the problem is you need access to it now.

My understanding is you will need some money for lawyers upfront. But he is jointly responsible for the mortgage and you can ask him to pay half as soon as you tell him. That way you can pay for divorce expenses. If he doesn’t pay it won’t look good on him when the final settlement is agreed.

Girlmum2024 · 23/06/2025 20:59

OchreRaven · 23/06/2025 20:51

Can you make up a big house expense you need money for? or pretend to book a holiday? His savings and pensions are 50% yours so you aren’t taking what is his but the problem is you need access to it now.

My understanding is you will need some money for lawyers upfront. But he is jointly responsible for the mortgage and you can ask him to pay half as soon as you tell him. That way you can pay for divorce expenses. If he doesn’t pay it won’t look good on him when the final settlement is agreed.

That's a good idea. I am not really sure why I continue to pay all the expenses when it leaves me literally without a penny in the last few days of the month before I get paid. I am going to tell him he needs to start paying 50% of it so I have some money leftover for myself. I will take some advice on that though if I can

OP posts:
Comtesse · 23/06/2025 21:13

I read your old OP. God he’s hateful, he has you tied up in knots and paying for everything UGH.

You clearly have a good job - any chance of getting therapy or something similar through that? Something to help get your head clear and see what’s going on.

Girlmum2024 · 23/06/2025 21:55

Gd he's a bastard. He's been gone two days and hasn't once checked in on us - no call, text, nothing. I have read the old thread and again I let myself believe I am the problem. FFS. Which man behaves like this? How have I let him!!

His mum and I are close. She might suspect there is a problem but I don't talk to her about it as I don't know how to and he is her son after all.

Shall I speak to her about it? I feel I should but also don't know how to without "bitching" about her son - I don't want to destroy our relationship.

I feel I need to tell someone IRL - I tell myself I am leaving him but think it will only be real when I admit it out loud to someone IRL.

OP posts:
MadeForThis · 23/06/2025 22:33

She’s not your friend. She’s his mother and that’s always where her loyalty will be. You need to speak to someone who is 100% on your side.

hideawayforever · 23/06/2025 23:07

Definitely don't speak to his mother....he's the Rockstar in her eyes. What about your own family?

gamerchick · 23/06/2025 23:23

Did you keep the other note?

Take this one. Hide them away out of the house. Tell him they'll be useful when the divorce happens and he's welcome to write more of them if he wants.

You need support IRL though. If he hid the note from his dad then he knows what he's doing. Make copies, get other people's opinions on them. Abuse thrives on secrecy.

Girlmum2024 · 23/06/2025 23:47

gamerchick · 23/06/2025 23:23

Did you keep the other note?

Take this one. Hide them away out of the house. Tell him they'll be useful when the divorce happens and he's welcome to write more of them if he wants.

You need support IRL though. If he hid the note from his dad then he knows what he's doing. Make copies, get other people's opinions on them. Abuse thrives on secrecy.

Yes I have the other note. He emailed it to me when I asked for it again - it was marked V2 and had bits highlighted. Yes. I know.

The other I have taken a photo of. So all safely saved in the cloud.

OP posts:
BreadInCaptivity · 23/06/2025 23:53

Don’t speak to his mother. She will prioritise him and will not admit what a nasty bastard he is.

Do not tell him you have read the note. That’s what he wanted you to do.

Re: money look what you are spending and see what you can reduce without telling him.

You are not in as bad a position as you think. You can prove you’ve been paying all the mortgage. What’s he contributing to the family “pot”. Fuck all by the sounds of it.

Given how long you’ve been married you’ll be looking at joint assets- doesn’t matter whose name it’s in. So savings may be in his name…but that doesn’t mean he gets to keep it. Starting premise is 50/50.

As a start point most solicitors will offer a free first 30 min consultation. Try and book one of those to get a basic plan of action.

Girlmum2024 · 23/06/2025 23:57

I know she will always have his back but I feel I want her to know what he is like (I sort of suspect she won't be completely shocked as she has said to me often that she doesn't like to make him cross so I suspect she sees some of it)

But yeah, I need to find someone else. Possibly my parents. They are very old fashioned and traditional and elderly (late 70s/80s) and there is a chance that whilst they would definitely support me, they would try to convince me to stay and to just "ignore him". I am close to my siblings but as the eldest I am usually the one they come to for support not vice versa. I also have several close friends I can trust with this right now - I just need to say it out loud. I almost did last week but my friend then said she needed to talk to me about a personal matter she was dealing with herself and so it wasn't the right time.

OP posts:
rockstarshoes · 24/06/2025 00:19

I would have been so tempted to write go fuck yourself on the bottom of the 2nd note & put it back where I found it but that won’t help!

legal advice is what you need, can you take advantage of his time away & start looking for account numbers for saving accounts etc or is it all on his phone?!

please start making serious plans to leave, don’t let yourself get sucked in again!

MyFavouriteDaughter · 24/06/2025 00:48

I would read the note, photograph it and replace it exactly where he left it and don’t mention it. It will drive him crazy. And get your finances in order

Comtesse · 24/06/2025 01:58

Talk to a mate. Talk to a therapist. Talk to someone and make this real (not his mum, that’s a terrible idea).

Confusedorabused · 24/06/2025 06:48

Definitely don't talk to his mum. Talk to your siblings and/or a trusted friend. I found a trusted friend I can confide in (and my situation isn't nearly as bad, but who is to say it won't be) and that really helps me. She is very supportive of me.
Don't tell him you read the letter, ever! That's what he wants, and it will start the cycle all over again! You have a photo, great.
Sort out the finances, tell him you'll start a course or something and he needs to start paying half the mortgage since the house is half-owned. He will say "who will pay for all the clothes and the toys and the holidays hat I spend SO MUCH on?" And you say you'll do without that for a while, these are superfluous things after all.
Start planning a divorce, talk to WA to find out how you get access to the savings etc...
Don't get sucked in it all again, read your threads when he starts the cycle up again

Edited for typos

Girlmum2024 · 24/06/2025 09:42

Thanks all. I found a lawyer last night and they've already come back to me and offered me a free in face to face consultation tomorrow morning. I'm doing this.

I'm going to ask him to start paying at least 50% of the mortgage so I have some spare cash - will see what advice I get tomorrow.

OP posts: