I don't know how to move forward... again...

[Girlmum2024]

Rather than continue the old thread I wanted to start a new one. This is the old thread - thank you to everyone who replied and helped.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5306368-i-dont-know-how-to-move-forward?latest=1

So, by way of update – I went on the holiday. We barely spoke – he barked at me twice “So, are you going to fix it or not”. You can imagine my response. He becomes increasingly vile when I don’t play to it. We sorted it out when we got home (me weakening when he was talking to me without hostility about something and I just grabbed the opening and went and hugged him) and then as per usual things were amazing and I question myself and why I made such a fuss – I even felt a little ashamed of this thread. Made a huge effort for his bday and things were good, including in the bedroom. Then he went away for business for a week. It was fine for 24hrs after he returned but I’d had a UTI and was on antibiotics and we didn’t have sex for a few days (literally only a few days). He was becoming increasingly withdrawn (normal with everyone else but cold to me, no affection, no engagement, light “peck” back when I go to hug and kiss him to soften him up) and so I decided to raise it gently with him and said “this is an example of what I am talking about when you withdraw, I find it so hard to speak to you or be close to you when you withdraw”. He knows EXACTLY what I mean. But his response was confusion and “what do you mean, you haven’t been near me for weeks and you still haven’t dealt with the note”.

I shouldn’t have been surprised but my jaw was on the floor – really??? Really??? I'm afraid I lost it. Told him there was no way in hell I was doing this again. None. I told him we were done and asked him to leave. I saw red. I can’t deal with the merry go round. NOTHING HAPPENED so WTF are we here again. You can’t keep bringing up the same letter from over a year ago. Even IF there are still things outstanding – how on gd’s green earth does it justify discarding me like that? It hurts so fucking much and fills me with continuous anxiety. How can anyone live like that? Why would you be so cold like that to someone you love? Just why?

So, we’ve not really spoken since. He’s not left but I have never been more resolved to not do this again. I physically can’t even if I wanted to. I literally don’t have an ounce of energy for it. I must be an idiot. It’s always been like this but in the last year it’s literally every few weeks, it is making me go insane.

Anyway.

There’s been another note.

This one was seemingly written to himself (the note is entitled “how to find the courage to leave when you are no longer being respected). This note was left casually lying on his desk in his home office. I’m certain it was left for me to find. His father had popped round to say hi and walked into the office (I watched with interest as my husband subtly placed a book over the note). Later, he removed the book. He left the note sitting there all weekend. Who leaves such a private note lying on top of the desk?

He is now away on business for a week. After he left, I saw he’d tidied the desk and left the note sticking out of a very small notebook.

This is the first para of the note word for word after the title.

Long term continual abuse. All points towards stonewalling with a touch of gaslighting (vis a vis having discussed things) as opposed to simple narcissim – only 40-50% criteria fit. Will not admit it – classic stonewalling in every sense. Evidence laid out* but will not engage. Refuses to do anything to make me think she is committed to working things out.

*presume this means in the 8 pager he sent me

Then followed by a long list of all the nasty things I have said in the history of our marriage. Then continued…

I am not willing any longer to forgo intimacy and by habitual refusal to have sex she has forfeited my fidelity.

It then goes on about me needing therapy to deal with my issues and perhaps he will raise that with me.

He then tails it with the title written in bold again.

I don’t know why I am posting other than I just need to talk and get it off my chest – I am not sure its advice I need. Unless, am I missing something? I keep asking myself that, and then revert to my firm resolve and then question again. I just need to talk about it as I have not told anyone yet IRL and I have a constant low-level anxiety coupled with feelings of excitement that I could finally be free… and then again worry I am missing something.

What you have said in your latest post does seem to just give more evidence of him being a typical abusive man. Your friend blowing him kisses and commenting on how amazing he is, isn't the one who has live with him. These abusers usually are wonderful to everyone except their partner. There is a very old saying about abusive men "An angel in the street and a devil by the hearth.". I think we can tell how old it is by the use of word hearth, how many people have a hearth nowadays?! But it shows it is not a new concept, that a man will be a devil behind closed doors with his family and an angel to everyone else.

It's not a new or unusual concept that a man will only show his bad behaviour to his romantic partner, but I appreciate it does bend your brain and make you wonder if you are imagining it all or if its your fault. No and no. You are not imagining it all and it is not your fault.

You are absolutely right it is always your fault and it will always be your fault if you take any notice of him. Blame shifting is a variety of gaslighting, a tool used by abusive people. More evidence that it's not you, it's him that's abusive and you need to escape to protect your sanity apart from anything else.

@Girlmum2024 blimey he’s incredibly needy - and neediness is to me a huge turnoff

He might not be unfaithful but he is blatantly abusive!
I bet if your friend had read either of those letters she wouldn’t be thinking he was kind & generous, she’d be thinking what an absolute dick!

what can we do to help you?
have you reached out anywhere else? Spoken to Women’s Aid
https://www.womensaid.org.uk/

Hi OP

I wonder if you would find this advice useful. I think the writer states things clearly and well.

What Are Healthy Marriage Boundaries and Why Are They Important?

The needy style of relating

Needy people try to change other people so that they can get their own needs met.

I need you to change, so I can be happy is the underlying idea behind needy behavior.

Criticism. Criticism is letting someone know you don’t like something about them. Criticism is often promoted as good communication, even though it is destructive. Have you ever heard, If your spouse is doing something you don’t like, you need to let your spouse know so that your spouse will know and can treat you better? This is an example of something that sounds logical, but does not work.

How to Identify a Needy, Dependent, Codependent, or Secure Spouse

^^ Your husband is very needy

Codependence is a behavior which appears loving in the short term, but has disastrous long term consequences.

You can know if you are codependent if you are helping someone to maintain a bad or damaging behavior.

For example, when you give-in to needy behaviors, you are being codependent. Although your spouse will like it that you give-in, it only encourages your spouse to use more and more needy behaviors.

Please look up Codependency !

Pia Mellody - Facaing Codependence

Download it, read it and see if it rings any bells.

Thank you. We are still in limbo - only talking for essentials. I spoke to women's aid after I wrote my first post - I shared a lot of the first note and explained what I explained here and they agreed with much of what has been said on the thread and the advice I have been given. I guess it is down to me now to find a way to move forward. To be honest, I am already happier in some ways as I don't have to deal with the constant mood swings, the games, the ignoring me and sulking. For me that is VERY freeing. I am not second guessing, I know where I stand and there isn't a constant yo-yo of emotions. And it's giving me space to see a lot of is behaviours a lot more clearly.

Wtf have I jist read. What an arsehole. Od leave the note where he left it and act like you didn't see it.

Id begin to get financially sorted. Move money away into your own acxount and pay bills from that. He may get nasty and move money. That's the 1st rhjng I did when I caught my ex cheating.

You are not to blame. I had the same. When will men realise that if women feel loved smd secure we will want sex more. My ex used to sulk if he didnt get jt..made him even more unattractive!!
Your oh sounds so manipulative and twisted too.

Dont reply in his mum. She may sympathise but dont tell her anythjng you wouldn't tell him.
Best advice I got was treat them as a shit business partner.
Dont worry about divorce etx...he will have to contribute and you are likely to be the main carer for the children so dont let him push you off track.

Thanks for this - so on the boundaries. It makes total sense. So my boundary is, which he knows, "don't go cold on me, don't suddenly withdraw your affections and make me figure it out". The problem is I usually don't enforce it for long. I will break and always fix it. He always claims I never fix anything (by which I believe he means I never fix the reason he goes cold - which is again I believe, not giving enough to him, not making enough effort to make him feel how he needs to feel) but when it comes to him giving me the cold shoulder it is always but always me that makes the first move to make it right and then me that has to slowly bring him round - and it's only EVER completely fixed after sex which I hate but he is so loving after sex, so I fall for it every time.

But on the last two occasions he has done his withdrawing charade I have enforced the boundary. And that is why the impasse has gone on for so long! Which proves to me that when I don't fix it, it doesn't get fixed. I think if it were not for me we would have split many years ago. In our first year of marriage, he tried to push his withdrawal charade by packing a bag and saying he was going to stay in a hotel for a few nights. That was crossing my boundary for me. No way. I told him that was not how we were going to fix arguments (it was a STUPID one as well - my friend had commented how hot an actor was during a film (Jude Law!) at the cinema - she was sat in front with her partner and turned round and said "gd he's so hot" and I responded with something like "I know" but nothing OTT and it escalated with him not speaking to me). I told him that if he left, he left for good and I would never take him back. I meant it at the time. So he stayed and he's never pulled that one again. But, he still withdraws whenever he feels like it and I am reeled in to give him the attention he wants - I won't do it anymore, but the consequence of my boundary is him digging his heels in more and giving himself further proof of what a "shit wife" I am. He is wallowing in self pity and that bloody new note is still sat on his desk.

Wtf have I jist read. What an arsehole. Od leave the note where he left it and act like you didn't see it.

@superplumb I have done just that and I presume that's why he has kept it out waiting for me to read it and bring it up. He will be waiting forever.

OP, objectively reading looks like your H is the narc - Narcs are incredibly selfish whilst still wanting to be called noble and heroic by society.

I think being a narc, he probably wanted to leave when you got a cancer diagnosis - not wanting to go without sex for 18 months. A narc probably doesnt want the responsibility honestly of 4 kids either in situations where the other parent is in hospital sick. While a regular immature a hole, would just leave. Narcs are unable to do something that straightforward , and simplistic. They have to complicate everything, subterfuge and sideways diversions are their modus operandi - it does not tire them the way it does us. They thrive on the confusion they create in confounding and complicating the situation , grinding us down into exhaustion.

This is your punishment , the past year or so with the 8 page note, for falling sick and hence him having to go without sex for 18 months. He will never admit it will he cos then its clear who the bad guy is. He therefore confusingly pretended to act caring and supportive during the 18 months and then as soon as you are back to normal again - he puts in demands for you to act in ways that probably no woman in a long term marriage who works full time and has 4 kids and has had health issues in the recent past would be able to meet effectively - especially if he knows well that behaviours like sexting for eg during the day in between actual sex every three days - is not part of your personality type right from your early dating days.

Please see this for what it is. if it was happening to your friend you would be able to see it more clearly the way we readers can. I think he is hedging his bets against you having relapses in future where sex will be off the table for extended periods of time if you are ever in hospital again + he will have to do a lot more around the house with the kids then + your earning capacity and you paying all the bills like you do now likely impacted next time round and decided he wants out - and has decided also to build a narrative around leaving where he hopes to come off as the good guy who stood by you during your sickness but ultimately left due to your cold behaviour and refusal to be more into sex outside the bedroom. I think it is a testimony to how amazing you are and what an ahole he is that literally this was the only thing he himself could find to criticise you over and over again. Also I would write a sentence by sentence rejoinder lengthy and equally boring as his original 8 pager , and send it to him

would appreciate your tough love any time on my own thread too, as I have my own narc (yay) H to deal with, but objectivity is harder when you are swimming for your life in murk and mud, to gauge the murkiness level of the mud.