How to fix my marriage - think it's doomed

[Willthegrassbegreener]

Ive been with my husband for nearly 15 years. Sex has always been the weakest part of our relationship. I think I sacrificed my needs to settle for a nice kind man, that I thought would be a good dad. In hindsight this was pretty foolish of me, especially considering the relationship before this had so much chemistry so I know how good it can be. I'd always hoped given time that we could make it work but he's just not wired that way.

Since having children together it is the worst it has ever been. It doesn't help that our youngest child sleeps badly and sometimes ends up in our bed. I've tried to address the lack of intimacy with him but he has told me he does not feel comfortable having sex when the kids are in the house, at all.

I'm really struggling with this and can't see how we can improve our sex life. I don't feel ready to break up our family but I don't know how I can continue without some kind of intimacy. It doesn't help that we have no childcare, other than school. So its not like we can easily go out on dates or romantic weekends away as that is just not our reality.

What have other people done in my situation? I can't stop crying about it all as I never wanted to end my marriage but I'm struggling to see a way forward when things are so mismatched.

It sounds like she’s already tried to talk about it numerous times and nothing’s improved. This isn’t the first time she’s bringing it up! She could just leave without a discussion but the only one worth having now is where she makes it clear how important it is to her. Then yeast he can’t say, “but you didn’t warn me!”

@MyObservations

Did you even read the op?

They don't have childcare
He won't have sex when the kids are in the house

This is a man who doesn't want sex.

My GP many years ago said women in these situations sometimes took a lover rather than divorce. It hadn't harmed their marriages. Eventually their desire waned too.

I don’t think it’s appalling advice. I think OP has tried all that kind of ‘non threatening‘ ‘be kind’ talking over and over, got nowhere and her needs are still being entirely ignored.

Of course it’s fine to not want sex, and no means no. But one partner cannot decide by themselves that there will be no more sex in their relationship and just expect the other partner to both be ok with that and not decide for themselves that they want more. It has to at least have crossed the husband’s mind that this might not be the kind of relationship his wife wants and he could risk the marriage breaking up.

Ive name changed @Willthegrassbegreener as it’s all very personal but I’m in a similar situation. It’s not no sex in our case, but it’s infrequent and has never been that great for me if I’m honest - we’ve been through spells of it being a lot better. Communication is painful around it - DH is just so bloody awkward and doesn’t have the vocabulary or understanding I don’t think to even begin to discuss this in any meaningful way. His understanding of sex is all a bit ‘Carry on‘ film honestly, and his response to any (very nice, very non threatening) attempt to tell him this isn’t working for me, I’d like to try XYZ is to be all hurt and say ‘that’s not very nice to say’. Then we’re back to nothing for weeks and months.

Ive gone through feeling rejected and unattractive and embarrassed. Ive just laid still, said nothing and gone along with the kind of sex he did want because god forbid I scare him off! Especially in the ttc times to be honest, it was a case of ‘just get the job done’. I then got angry because it’s not fucking nice to not give a shit about your wife’s needs or to not at least want to try to make her happy in that way, especially when you’re getting the orgasms you want when you do occasionally decide you want them. And moved all the way through to not caring much either way anymore - I’m mid 40s now and kind of over it though I do feel deeply sad that a truly intimate and fulfilling sex life isnt on the cards for me again. Like you Ive known how good it can be (DH more inexperienced and I don’t think he really has).

Agree with a PP that attempts to take matters into my own hands and ‘spice things up’ ended up in more rejection and felt humiliating. Weekends away etc - whilst absolutely lovely and good for our overall relationship/ intimacy add another element of pressure - the odd one has led to sex but not always and when it doesn’t it just makes you feel shit again.

Ive made it sound very bleak - but of course it’s never that straightforward. For us there are better times, and it’s not a complete lack of intimacy.

Like you I settled or compromised on this aspect for a good, kind man who I trusted and who wanted the same things in life. He works hard, is generous in every other way, we get on and communicate about most things (apart from this obviously!) well and he makes me laugh. We get on. He’s a genuinely great, involved dad who does his equal share of parenting - more at times.

Having said that, Ive also thought about if I could go on, if I even wanted to. I also feel really guilty like I brought this on myself because I knew the sex side just wasn’t right from the beginning - but like you I genuinely believed we could work on it and get better. We have actually - but only to a certain point, I don’t think it’s possible to get beyond that.

I’m staying, and not considering an affair either:

• Its one aspect of our life, I like the rest of it and don't want to lose it
• I don’t want to mess up DC’s life, particularly over something that I knew about from the beginning, I feel very responsible!
• DH would go for, and get, 50/50 at least. As he should because he’s an amazing dad. I don’t want to not be with my DC every birthday, Christmas, holiday. I don’t want to not be with them half the time. I don’t think any amount of great sex would ever make up for that for me.
• Previous relationships that have been great on the sex front were lacking elsewhere and there’s a couple that seriously messed me up with how they ended. I also dated a lot before meeting DH, work with a lot of men too. There are not that many good ones out there honestly. There’s also no guarantee that any of them would want me! I’m capable of being happy on my own, but need to be realistic that this is likely the choice I’d be making.

It’s not a choose between DH or some other mystery person who is going to tick all the same boxes DH does AND also provide more, better sex. It’s a choice between my current life or blowing up all our lives to be on my own. Without my DC half the time. Maybe I’d meet someone else, maybe I wouldn’t - I don’t actually think he would as I don’t think he’d be bothered, but he could surprise me and then I’m dealing with a potential stepmother to my DC. I don’t want that.

I wouldn’t judge you at all if you made a different choice - I know how complex it all is. I’m just saying my reasons for my choice - and also a bit of realism about what leaving could mean - it’s often pushed as ‘go and find someone who makes you SO happy and then you’ll model that for your children and everyone will ultimately thank you for it’. I don’t buy that honestly.

What I am doing, also mentioned by a PP, is really working on putting energy into friendships, work, other interests as well as my family/ home life - I think the times Ive found it hardest I was feeling generally unfulfilled anyway and sort of looking to DH to make me feel wonderful. When I’m feeling good about life in other aspects it’s also easier to see what is really genuinely good about my marriage too.

That’s the point. If it was a woman who didn’t want sex, many posters would say to her DH too bad/do more chores/life doesn’t revolve around sex etc.

I fucking hate the ‘double standards - what if it was a man?’ posts that crop up on threads like this.

I’ve seen lots of such posts by men - I tend to click on these kinds of titles because of my own situation as described above.

In almost every case, there will be people telling the male OP that it’s ok to leave if their needs are not being met, that if they want a sexual relationship and their wife doesn’t and they can’t reconcile that then the thing to do it split up. Just as has been said here.

Often when women (mothers) don’t want sex it’s because they’re exhausted, touched out, unsupported and made to feel like a domestic appliance then expected to perform sexually. It’s so common that it makes perfect sense to suggest that as a possible reason to explore to men who complain they are not getting enough. It’s pretty rare for that to be the reason men aren’t interested in sex, so it’s less likely to be suggested - that’s not a double standard, unless you mean the double standard where women still do the bulk of household and emotional labour and are still expected to be sexy with it.

If a man expresses himself well, isnt dripping with entitlement and shows some awareness of his wife as a person in her own right then Ive nothing but sympathy if he finds himself in a situation comparable to the OP’s.

Even so, I don’t actually care if MUMSnet is a slightly more hostile or challenging place for men. But whether it is or not has absolutely no relevance to the OP’s situation and trying to score a ‘gotcha’ with ‘what if a MAN’ said that to a woman who is clearly struggling with the situation and has clearly put a lot of thought and consideration into her children’s, her husband’s and just now her own needs is pretty pathetic.

Excellent post, which I will re-read. ❤️ I'm sorry you had to write those words, though.

@namemeagain
I agree.
Some posters seem to be on here for the sole purpose of doing this. They contribute nothing else. It’s tedious and pathetic.

OP, this is a really difficult one to give advice on because we have no clue what’s actually going on with your husband. You definitely need to speak to him honestly.
I think most problems along these lines can be resolved if you love each other and are willing to work together. If you talk to him openly and he’s not willing to do that, I’m afraid that your relationship is probably done.
Do you actually love him? Are you in love with him? Before you speak to him, maybe take time to really think about that.

Thank you so much @namemeagain for taking the time to respond in such detail. You have completely captured how complex it all is, more eloquently than I did in my op. I really feel unless you have been through it, like you have that it's difficult to understand.

Our situation and husbands sound so similar, especially the awkwardness around sex. I had a lot of confidence when I met him and naively thought his issues were lack of confidence that would improve over time. I also dont think he's had much experience so I struggle to talk about how to improve it as he doesn't have much to compare to. He also has ED, so I've always gone along with what he wants so I don't scare it away. Sometimes talking about sex, creates more presssure which i know is the last thing you need with ED.

The relationship I had before him, had the most amazing chemistry. He was a great guy too but I just didn't feel he was the right dad for my future children. I don't regret my kids but I do wonder if I picked the right guy, if you know what I mean.
I feel like you that because I knew about this in the beginning I owe him one more chance to see if we can get to a better place. I know it'll never be the mind blowing sex from my past but I don't think I'm ready to accept a completely sexless marriage. I think the resentment and anger would be too much and then I wouldn't be the best mum to the kids.

I'm definitely going to take the advice to work on enjoying other aspects of my life without my husband. I really don't think I could cheat. In some ways I think that would make me resent him even more that he doesn't want sex. As you say, it's a choice between our marriage and being on my own. There's no guarantee I'd find somebody to match my libido and that I liked enough to pursue a relationship with.i thought I'd come to peace with how things were but with being peri my hormones are making everything harder again.

You’re not selfish to want sex with your husband OP.

Maybe not @okydokethen and @Eric1964 but it feels a selfish reason to end a marriage. I'm not saying that's going to happen because it's more complicated than that.

@CeliaInside I definitely love him and love our life and family. I'm not sure if I am still in love with him though. But maybe that's because some resentment has started to set in. I think the fundamental issue is that he just doesn't want sex as much as me (if at all). We've talked over the years as this is not a new issue.

For me it wasn't just the sex but being desired and the closeness. Otherwise you can feel like housemates.

Marriage can be the loneliest place to be.

@justasking111 I completely agree. It's the not being desired that I struggle the most with. I know he loves me, but he doesn't want me or my body in the way I think he should or how it's felt in the past with other people. There is just no chemistry or spark and sex just feels awkward. If we didn't have kids this would be an easy choice to make.

Er, yes, I did read the op. I hadn't appreciated grandparents were merely "childcare", it must be a generational thing! If my children referred to me and the other grandparents that way they would get an earful from me. And yes, I also appreciate it's about a man who doesn't want sex, how refreshing!

As others have said, if it was the other way around and the wife/partner didn't want sex, most of the advice on here would be different.

I can't help thinking this is as much about communication as anything else and clearly they need to talk it through.

But thank you for your comment, much appreciated.

Nope - I would advise a man to consider separating, the same as I would to a woman.

Not really seen this to be honest.

I'm in a similar situation to you OP, and it is so hard. I would say would he agree to discuss with the GP and also couples counselling? After I brought up opening up the marriage DH is now making an effort, as I think it has brought home how important sex and intimacy is to me. Would he feel more comfortable with a lock on the bedroom door, or a lock on a room downstairs (if he's worried about noise)? We go in a cycle of DH making an effort and things then dwindling, so I'm not sure if our marriage is going to survive in the long term. However I keep wondering how much intimacy am I going to get if I'm single again!? I didn't find it easy to find men that I liked before I met DH!

This is such an honest and reflective post, your relationship sounds very much like mine and your reasons for staying do too.
There are certain future landmarks (when DC get to certain ages) where I will be reevaluating to make sure staying is the best choice.
But for now, staying in a secure, friendly relationship where I spend as much time with my children as possible wins out.
I am also making sure I maintain strong friendships, maintain my career and have hobbies etc.
OP, I feel for you, it’s not a nice situation. The sexless marriage thread which has already been recommended will definitely show you that there are plenty of us in the same boat 🥴

It's amusing in a strange way when the media talk endlessly about women who clamp their thighs shut, but avoid talking about men bringing down the shutters.

AND WE'RE THE FRIGID ONES. REALLY?

@Richtea67 I think counselling or therapy is definitely a next step. Whether that's together or just me by myself to work out my feelings. When we've discussed it in the past he's avoided it but things feel more serious now.

With regards to a lock on the door, he's said he still won't feel comfortable or able to relax. Obviously with ED that's not going to help. I think the bigger issue is that he just doesn't want to. As someone up thread said, if he wanted to have sex he'd find a way.

I'm sorry to hear you're in a similar situation. The pattern of improving and then dwindling is very familiar to me. I completely agree, that's why maybe staying is better than being single. Who knows, there's so many complex feelings with it all.

I don’t understand how you have no childcare ever. Do you work?

If he won’t do it while the children are in your care, that means ye can never do it then.

Thats a dealbreaker and a difficult conversation but he doesn’t get to decide that you don’t have sex ever again.

@MyObservations you've clearly never been in my situation as your advice is coming across as rude and hurtful, whether intentional or not.

As others have said, when you try to 'spice things up' with someone with low sex drive/ other issues - most of the time this is extremely humiliating and often depressing. You make all this effort, thinking this will time will be different but you get the same result.

I'm not saying we don't need to communicate more but what do you think we've been doing all these years?!?

Also, just because I referred to grandparents as childcare in this context, doesn't mean that's the only way I view them. All I meant is that the only time I don't have the children is when they are at school. All four of our parents are dead, so I'm not lucky enough to have the help that you obviously provide to yours.

@3luckystars I never said we didn't have childcare. What I said was, the only childcare we have is school. Our oldest is at primary and our youngest is at the attached preschool. We both work. I run my own business so can work around the school drop offs and pick ups.

We are both only children and unfortunately both sets of parents are no longer with us. So we literally have no help or time away from the kids unless they are at school.

Exactly, the times when the kids aren't here is not conducive to a healthy sex life and that's what's making me struggle and contemplate leaving. Things have always been difficult but I've never considered leaving until he said this.

@MidlifeWondering that's exactly how I felt about that post. I'm sorry to hear another one in a similar boat. I think that's what I'll end up doing, for now at least.

@justasking111 I think that's why it's so difficult because we are programmed to think that men think about sex all the time. When in reality, that's not true for all men.