Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ND: support thread 16

[BustyLaRoux]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5299389-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-15?page=1

My partner is ND and we’re currently awaiting for an autism assessment for her (it’ll be a long way off). She also has anxiety and depression issues.

It’s been incredibly hard the past few months. There’s times when she’s not wanted to do anything but stay in bed and make long lists of things she needs to do / focus on (which never get done).

What makes it incredibly hard is we have a 20 month old daughter (who I do the majority of the caring for) and it’s feels she’s starting to realise her mum isn’t like others, and doesn’t understand why her mother doesn’t engage with her and ignores her when she tries to interact with her.

It’s heartbreaking and extremely tough to see.

Those both sounds like really tough situations @AlteFrau and @CaffeinatedSeagull - sending love , and patience, to you both

Would being on the spectrum stop you from responding to your babies needs? Could it be PND? I know I am on the spectrum and found being a parent overwhelming but it wouldn’t stop me from responding it would just cause me to get very tired.

We have involvement from Early Help and it could be PND. They’ve recommended VIG to help with their bonding, and we’re awaiting a date for that to start.

She was fine with her when she was tiny but my partner just says she doesn’t understand her now she is a toddler and doesn’t know how to interact with her at all, and when she does try she feels overwhelmed very quickly which then leads her to shutting down completely from any interaction.

^ Should also add that my partner needs structure to her day. Everything needs to be planned out and scheduled in advance.

She doesn’t deal well with spontaneity and not having plans or them being delayed is one of her triggers, and that leads to a meltdown.

So a toddler who can’t run to one is an issue for her.

That definitely sounds more like PND or some kind of burnout-style shutdown. A new baby is A LOT. I only coped by having set “stay and play” groups I went to on specific days of the week. It’s a good rhythm as they tend to start at 9.30am, so it gets you dressed and out of the house. Assuming she’s not working full time, could you facilitate getting her to a group one day a week, as a starting point? I don’t think anyone does well without regular human contact.

@CaffeinatedSeagull my first reaction was depression/PND but seeing that your partner specifically struggles with the chaos coming with a toddler, I’m thinking more autistic burnt out.

Could you go private re assessment for her?

I mean VIG looks like a great intervention (I wish it existed when dc1 was little and I struggled to bond with him after PND). But I’m wondering if it’s as appropriate if the parent is autistic. Or rather that the person doing the VIG needs to also be ‘autistic aware’ iyswim.

@EmotionalSupportHuman she’s working part time now (she’s been signed off work recently too) but the groups did help massively when they were going. It helped give her the structure she needed but they stopped when our little one started nursery. She also had a good friendship group through that and was meeting up with her mum friends one day a week but that’s stopped now also.

@SpecialMangeTout3 I’m hoping we’ll get a date for VIG this week. I asked our worker about autism and undergoing that, they said it shouldn’t make much difference as it’s about reinforcing positive behaviour between them.

We’ve spoken about going private for the autism assessment, and it’s definitely a possibility but she wants to get VIG out of the way first. Hopefully that’ll be beneficial for her.

I am wondering what we're going to do next year when DS has to revise for mocks of GCSEs basically all year long.

The school really goes to an effort with, admittedly often hard to read, resources for revision, and they will give them question sheets to revise with, but even with checking in every 15 minutes he will say 'I don't know where to find the information' and every time there is a revision sheet named with the exact topic and every time we explain to him they will not give a question sheet without giving him a relevant revision sheet.

We are not going to be able to spend all next year checking in on him ever 10 minutes.

When dcs were doing GCSE, teaching them to be independent in their revision has been essential. I mean me stepping in always ended up with someone being upset and even more relunctance to do any revisions 🙄🙄
They both also had to learn the hard way that not revising is costly…..
Being a parent in the middle of it is hard.

Do you know what’s stopping him from finding the sheet?Is it an ND trait, a feeling it’s easier to just ask?

Maybe put together a ‘procedure’ together - you could even write it together - to say step by step what he has to do. Something like
1- what’s the title of the exercise sheet
2- open the revision tab page
3- put title of the exercise sheet in search bar
And then you can direct him back to the ‘procedure’ and only step in if needed?

The aim being to make him as independent as possible in his revisions.

I was just thinking about the avoidance of my mum and wondered if this could be from a learned behaviour from dysregulation and not just narcissistic. If you avoid then you don’t have to feel overwhelmed and the masking feels easier. It’s better than having a meltdown. Crap for the person who needs support and not how to build healthy relationships. I wonder if she even knows that she is avoidant. She can’t even write nice things in a card and made my dad send the same card each year as she didn’t need a new one. She has absolutely no idea what to say in most situations, put her on the spot and she’s like a deer in the headlights.

Thank you - that's really helpful. I definitely think the most important thing is him learning to do it independently. Not finding the sheets I guess is a bit like the way his father can look right at the place where the object he's looking for is, but still not actually see it.

I've suggested to DS now that each time he's given revision material, he starts revision by reading each sheet and writing, by hand 5-10 key points per page that he thinks might be important. Then that way if he has a specific revision sheet to fill in, hopefully he can remember that he has seen something on that topic and look it up.

@Echobelly would an ADHad coach be the person to teach the underlying strategies? Just a thought x

@AlteFrau I’m so sorry things are hard. My DH and I sometimes end up in the contradictory positions you describe. DH will insist we can buy a more expensive property and then days later get upset about how his business is doing and declare that he will never work again. He’s then shocked when I say that we should not buy the more expensive house.

I don’t understand how he’s able to hold those things separate but he can. I noticed two things, the first is that he sticks rigidly to his intention. He won’t take accountability for any other reading of what he’s said. The second thing is his catastrophisation about work is a form of meltdown and he feels free to discount that, and is surprised when I don’t.

It hugely comes between us as my experience of him is as a very inconsistent, unreliable person. It makes me feel I can’t rely on him as I don’t really know what to take seriously and what not to. I catastrophise also but am better able to acknowledge that and to hold a consistent self. Austin absolutely impacts this ability to have a consistent self.

Does that ring any bells in your situation? That the WhatsApp was a meltdown message that helped him express an unstable self and now he wants you to treat it as that, rather than an actual accusation?

I’m so sorry for what you’re going through 💐

Thanks @NoviceVillager

Does that ring any bells in your situation? That the WhatsApp was a meltdown message that helped him express an unstable self and now he wants you to treat it as that, rather than an actual accusation?

How I'm reading it is this. Stepson (SS) has expressed some regret to his father that he sent the message. But the regret is more linked to a sense that being under pressure led himself to express justifiable thoughts - that he'd previously been showing manly forbearance by suppressing. And then rather than just accepting what he's said as true, his Dad has put him under further pressure by questioning how solidly based his recollections are and by saying he should contact me and sort things out.

Six months down the line since SS blew up and eight months after the birth of his child, he still feels he is way to busy to be expected to communicate with me. (Freelancing very part-time from home. Partner still on maternity leave.

I think his wiring/temperament means that he cannot listen to alternative perspectives on past events - though he clearly does have some wish to explain to his father exactly why he is right and other people (me and his own mother - it tends to be older women, for some inexplicable reason) are wrong. Because that way we would then apologise to him, for having forced him to tell the truth, and having caused him so much suffering in the past. We would then start to behave again. I would cook him large meals, do the washing up, listen to him talking about his freelance work, ask him questions - but not of an intrusive kind - and admire his baby. But not in a way, that involved my actually saying I wanted to make arrangements to see the baby , because that would be me putting him under intolerable pressure.

I do actually think my stepson has a number of really good qualities, and I've generally - especially in recent years - managed to tolerate/work round the less easy aspects of his character. I have been around him for thirty years. An awful lot has been shared and when I think of 'family', I think about him.

It's something about his having become a Dad and wanting us to be involved with his child - but at the same time to completely back off because he's so very very very mch under presure - that has thrown up the sort of contradictions you were talking about in relation to your own husband.

Dh has what I call autistic avoidance.
Basically using avoidance as a tool to manage his autism.
I feel one of the reason is that this is what was modelled at home too (his mum is avoidant, in part because this is what worked with her very clearly autistic and demand avoidant dh….).
Also if I look at my own parents (both have some trauma issues but no ND), not engaging emotionally is a form of protection too. No reason imo that ND people wouldnt use those ‘techniques’ to protect themselves too.

Is that conducive to good, balanced, relationships? Nope but unless people have insight on their own behaviour (even harder with ND), and the ability to cope with being uncomfortable (that facing those issues will bring) then it’s not going to happen.

@NoviceVillager - yes, I've looked into coaching, it is very pricey but I think I'll just have to bite the bullet because neither of us are suited to teaching DS how to study. I did email one about a year ago after a disastrous round of school tests where DS was just too anxious complete any of them, but then he did much better on his second round. She did get back to me but after he did better next round we left it for then.

His next lot after the next two weeks are in mid January, and she has a discount for booking 5 sessions, so I think I'll get back to her and ask how she might recommend we do sessions, like maybe if possible 5 before Christmas, then he can put into practice to start revising over Christmas, and then maybe 2 more after Christmas and before the tests.

I feel awful hestitating over money, but as I've mentioned, for the last few years it's had to be me paying all the big costs and it gets anxiety-inducing

So avoiding is not an “autistic symptom” but a learned behaviour that’s come about from being autistic? What are they protecting themselves from? From their own feelings about themselves?

Well that’s my own take on it! I might be wrong though.

What are they protecting themselves from?
Shame and inadequacy, like everyone really. Except that if you have social difficulties, it’s going to happen OFTEN.
Can be a great way to avoid demand for someone who is demand avoidant.
And a way to avoid overload - from environments that too ‘stimulating’ (too loud, too much light etc…) - that’s a very physical removal of yourself - to cognitive stuff (due to issue with executive dysfunction, struggling with taking turns, with putting yourself in someone else’s shoes, with reaching a compromise etc etc….)

So they recognise the feelings they receive from others. They recognise that they don’t fit or aren’t perceived well? My mum for example will say completely the wrong things, has no idea how to make you feel better. If you just avoid it all you can stop being perceived and getting it wrong.

I always thought that they didn’t know how they are behaving and that it doesn’t get received well. Sorry I use the word they but I don’t mean it in a bad way. I am definitely ND and extremely awkward in situations but I don’t avoid because I want to be physically there for the people I love.

She doesn’t avoid my brother, they are like two of the same people, same interests, same reactions, no emotions. I guess she feels adequate with him but not with me. I wonder really if it was a coincidence or my brother has become like her in order to have not been avoided like me. I on the other hand can’t help being “different”.

I wonder really if it was a coincidence or my brother has become like her in order to have not been avoided like me

If I look at dh and the dcs, dh gets in with dc2 much better than dc1.
It’s not because dc2 has done that so that dh ‘likes him’. It’s that they’re both ND. Both the silent type. They don’t trigger each other (or maybe it’s dc2 doesn’t trigger dh).

So they recognise the feelings they receive from others. They recognise that they don’t fit or aren’t perceived well?
Yes. But it doesn’t automatically mean they know why. Or that they can change themselves to avoid being ‘badly received’. I suppose that’s the limit of how much masking one can do??
i mean one thing autistic people often rely on is patterns. To be able to rely on patterns to ‘know’ how to behave in social circumstances, you need to be able to say ‘that was well received/not accepted’.
Some autistic people are totally oblivious about it though but then I suspect they have much less issue with anxiety too.
And then the fact they dint fit in can be glaring. Like when autistic children/teens are getting bullied. Or pushed aside (the ‘no one sits with me at lunch time’ attitude)
EDIT TO ADD
I suspect that also where shame and fear comes from

Yeah I suppose I can see that. My bro just gets on with it and doesn’t make a fuss. But he spends all day every day at work as he openly finds family life boring at home. It’s wrong really. A parent or a spouse etc is really supposed to connect with all their children and make an effort with whatever interests they have. It’s very noticeable when someone isn’t interested in you. I think having ND parents can be very damaging if you aren’t aware of yourself.

DS had first school test today and it sounds like it went OK; it was a year ago that he totally fell apart in tests and couldn't do anything, I think because DH spent summer on his case having a go at him about how badly he did in his summer tests (and he had done OK in some of them actually).

I think both my parents were nd it was very difficult growing up with them, there was no interest in me and certainly no concern for my welfare . Dangerous things like a guy following me home at 16 and grabbing me resulted in them getting angry with me and behaving like it was my fault . I am now over 50 and still waiting for them to acknowledge my existence

None of that really suggests neurodiversity, more like uncaring self absorbed parents who sadly could not be bothered with you. It’s not your fault they’re like this and you did not make them that way. You owe them nothing, least of all a relationship here.