How did you get proof your partner was cheating?

[woodpeckersounds]

Just that. I have my suspicions but I just don’t know how to prove it. We don’t live together so it’s very easy for him to do it, if he is.

Sometimes he can be very reassuring, and I say to him how happy it’s made me and then the effect of that makes us happier. But more often than not, he’s not reassuring at all and just gets angry which makes my suspicions worse.

I know I’m probably not making much sense because I just can’t explain it. I know people say your gut is always right, but I have to have proof so I can’t be made out to be crazy. One girl I think he may have been speaking to, I’m so tempted to message but I’m paranoid she’s going to tell him I’ve messaged her and, as above, I’ll be the crazy, “toxic” one.

Deep down I don’t think he would do it to me, but actions speak louder than words in my opinion and I just need to know either way. He says I’m paranoid and negative, which maybe I am, but if he constantly reassured me and made me feel safe then I wouldn’t be. I don’t accuse him of cheating on me, I’ll just ask questions of where he’s been and things like that. Or he’ll lie about staying at a mates house and then get angry with me when I find out. Argh my head is in turmoil 😔 Thank you.

It absolutely isn't a "necessity". If you're at the point of surveillance, then the relationship is over anyway. No one ever needs any kind of proof to end a relationship. If people think you're crazy, then so be it. You don't owe it to anyone to prove anything if your relationship is over.

Whether he's cheating or not, a partner who makes you feel on edge or creates doubt is not a good bet.

@Foolsgold74 : i wonder what @woodpeckersounds thinks of that? Is, e.g., a voice recorder or a tracker on a car something she'd consider?

Well, the family studio portrait hidden under his socks kind of gave it away...

@woodpeckersounds
If you need proof one way or another to set your mind at rest, there’s absolutely nothing wrong searching for it.

I thought something seemed off, so I checked his phone when he was asleep, and surprise surprise it was all there.

This is exactly what my husband did.
I found out 5 years later he’d been having a very active affair.

First time her ex partner told me/sent screenshots. I'd known in myself for months but wasn't going to take his phone etc, I knew it would come out somewhere. Second time he told me on his way out the door! What a peach.

Despite popular MN opinion OP, your gut is NOT always right. Some people are just insecure and paranoid and the intrusive thoughts take over.

No it’s not; it’s illegal.

I'm happy to be contradicted, but I wouldn't have thought a voice-activated recorder in your own home or car would be illegal.

Don’t encourage someone to break the law.

Is it against the law to record someone in your own house without their knowledge? Yes or no?

If you’re putting a surveillance device in a car that is not owned by you, eg. Your partner’s car, it’s illegal. It’s not your car. The home is different, BUT morally wrong on all levels. No one should be spied on like that, however suspicious one may be. It’s disgusting and as bad as cheating in my view.

I was referring to the car.

Fair enough about the car: I've no legal knowledge, and I'll assume you have. Regarding recording in the home, it's a moral choice not a legal one.

I had a nagging feeling my ex wife was cheating but dismissed it.
We were on a family holiday in Crete just having a quiet beer with our young daughter. She had the family tablet out browsing the Internet supposedly catching up on the news etc etc...
After she's finished she hands it to me so I can check the football and she has hasn't closed her messenger page down and she hands me over her disgusting sex chat she had just been having with the guy whilst my then 9 year old daughter is sat next her .
Go with your gutt feeling. I wish I had

Thank you, I needed to hear that

I could be wrong but the way you speak comes across someone that hasn’t gone through that experience- so kindly don’t judge.

I’m sorry this happened to you, i don’t know how we go from people we love to people we don’t know any more

Gone through what experience, specifically?

The way you said it’s no more complicated than that - made me think that you haven’t experienced cheating - again I could be wrong but even if you have clearly your experience was very different that mine - which was more complicated than that

There is a huge degree of confirmation bias in most MN threads.

People who haven't experienced the topic at hand tend not to come on to the internet to discuss the thing they are not experiencing and have not experienced, so threads about infidelity tend to fill up with people who have experienced it, which gives rise to the impression that "gut" feelings are always correct, because lo and behold, most of these people who were indeed the victims of infidelity had a "gut" feeling something was going on.

Likewise "the script" and all sorts of other mumsnet perceived "wisdom". Sometimes people are totally fed up with their partner but plod along in a miserable relationship for years, but of course, once that relationship is over and people are being fundamentally honest about the fact they've been miserable for years, no, they aren't, they are "rewriting history" and all sorts. It's a sop to jilted people, nothing more.

Exactly!!

Ok.

I'll, try and explain this as concisely as I can

Have I experienced cheating?

Well not as far as I'm aware, but I'm not naive enough to assume it has never happened, only that none of my partners have ever given me any reason whatsoever to suspect it. If they had, it wouldn't matter to me if they had cheated or not, because the suspicion itself would be the end of the relationship for me. Personal definitions of "cheating" are just that, personal, and vary from one person to another, but I'm pretty clear on my boundaries, one of which is implicit trust, so unless I have full implicit trust in both directions I'm not in a viable relationship and I end it.

I'm not in any way a jealous, anxious, or possessive person, and while I do not mean to imply anyone who has felt the need to follow up a suspicion must be any of these things, its more that I have no compunction in ending relationships if I'm not 100% satisfied, because I don't feel any requirement to try and justify my reasons for that, hence no need to "prove" anything or find "evidence" of wrongdoing before I end something.

If I have been cheated on, I don't know about it, and frankly, I don't care because I'm also of the opinion that what I don't know about is of no consequence. I also have very firm beliefs about entitlement to privacy within a relationship, and it's probably more important to me than actual fidelity is in the first place, so I can't contemplate even looking at a partner's phone, for arguments sake, because any partner that demanded to look at mine would be out of the door before their feet hit the floor.

I'm not judging anyone for having different boundaries and different expectations, I just don't understand why some people seem to think they require evidence of wrongdoing before they can end a relationship. It really isn't necessary, and who cares if you are accused of being "crazy"? You are no longer in a relationship with that person, their opinions are irrelevant.

XDownwiththissortofthingX

I agree and was going to post similar.

It's harder if you live with someone and I can understand the feeling of needing proof then because the stakes are/feel so much higher.

If you know you're a jealous, anxious person and a one off incident (eg someone being late home from the pub) has your mind rushing into overdrive, then it might be good to reflect. Or consider why you feel like that at least.

But if you're at the point of 'knowing' but don't have the proof, you know they lie to you about where they've been, what they've been doing and who with, or you have proof but they deny it, or you're trawling through messages or.considering installing surveillance equipment, the 'relationship' is over whether they're cheating or not. And whether you have that proof or not.

I know I've been cheated on once but I didn't suspect and did discover it completely.by accident. I borrowed his laptop (with his express permission for that occasion), went into the history to delete my activity (as I always do).afterwards and there was a single item in his history that he'd clearly forgotten about, which gave it away.

I also have no idea of I've been cheated on since but, whenever I've dated anyone, I've ended it at the first sign I wasn't their priority.

Eg, I'd been seeing someone for 7 months or so and we went out for the day with his adult daughter. She took some photos and he was 'bothered' that she'd put a photo of us on SM because his ex gf of more than a year might see it.

I'd met his family, I didn't have any reason to think he was still seeing her but the fact he was bothered his exgf might be upset he was seeing someone else or a photo of us was enough to tell me he wasn't right for me.

If you don't feel respected and you don't trust someone, there is no relationship.