What do you think about Other Women

[Keptawake]

Just wondering what your thoughts are about the type of people that get involved with married/taken people with families?

I’m asking because DP left me 2 months ago for another woman. They’d been seeing each other for about 3 months before he left (an emotional affair which turned into secret dates although he was “respectful” enough to not get physical until the day he walked out). We have 2 kids. She knew he had a family.

It goes without saying that I hate him for this but I’ve also spent the last couple of months raging at the type of woman who could knowingly get involved with and break up a family.

Am I justified in thinking good people don’t do things like this? This might seem like an obvious answer but I’m just feeling a bit low.

If it works out I know at some point I may have to be civil with her as a potential stepmum to my kids but I can’t help thinking that there is no way I want someone like that as a role model in my kids life.

There are some common opinions which have been very untrue in my experience.

I don't think behaving decently is just about the sisterhood; it has to do with being a thoughtful and caring person- someone with a dependable moral compass. It's wrong to subject any fellow creature of either sex to the anguish of deception and betrayal- the OW is a collaborator in that crime.

Men don't always lie to the OW. Often both parties just compartmentalise and pretend that what happens in the love nest stays in the love nest, not hurting anyone. They may both feel bad at times, and the husband may even still love his wife, but they are having way too much fun to face up to the truth.

The reason that it's better to leave a marriage before having the affair is that cheating and lying -the process of the affair- takes away the deceived wife's opportunity to know what is going on in her own life, makes a lie of her life (often years of her life), gaslights her, sucks out her self-confidence, makes her doubt her own judgement and sense of reality. These are additional blows on top of the devastation of losing a marriage and family.

If you have been married to someone for 35 years, you don't just stop caring about him because you discover that he is a liar and cheat- you may still feel like he is your very own liar and cheat, part of the fabric of your life and family.

I agree that OW owe you no loyalty, but I still think it’s a bloody awful thing to do, even to a stranger. I’d never want to do anything that hurt anyone, even if I don’t know them. Anyone with an ounce of compassion and kindness for anyone would politely remove themselves from the situation, and why on earth they want a proven lying cheat is beyond me.
If they don’t know the guy is married or attached, then of course they are blameless, but the second they know what they are getting into, they’re complicit. To say to themselves that the wife or marriage is none of their business isn’t true once they’ve joined in. They’ve made themselves your business and whether they like it or not, they have now chosen to be viewed as an enemy of your marriage and family. Loyalty has nothing to do with it, knowingly hurting others does. OW might not owe loyalty to the betrayed wife, but then the wife owes no kindness or understanding to the OW either when she finds out she’s been sleeping with her husband. To say to angry betrayed wives that they shouldn’t be angry with the OW, just their cheating husband, is unfair and a huge ask. They should be furious with the pair of them.
The responsibility for the affair and betrayal lies with the cheating husband or partner, but knowingly condoning this and joining in, keeping his secrets for him to your own advantage makes you every bit as awful a person as he is being.

It occurs to me that, just as cheating married people have a “script”, as often discussed on here, APs also have a “script”? Justifying what they know is shitty behaviour with “well I don’t know him/her”, or “I’ve made no promises” or “if it wasn’t me, it would be someone else”? Perhaps the APs script is also a “thing”?

They definitely do! And you've nailed it. They also love to say they haven't got low self esteem, owe the wife nothing and that sisterhood isn't real😂I ready it and think yuck. Before DH, an ex tried to cheat on me and was unsuccessful in his many attempts so I had to confront him with proof that if he wasn't so unattractive he'd have probably cheated so I do see what some posters are saying about forced fidelity being useless fidelity. Despite that, I don't know how any woman can feel anything less than disgusting physically going near a man that's probably been in someone else that same day.

I think largely this is pretty accurate. Although affairs, despite being shitty, are not crimes, despite how some people on here think they should be treated!

All affairs necessitate lying to both partner and affair partner. Most people who have affairs are very adept at telling both what they want to hear and keeping their options open.

People who have affairs also get very good at lying to themselves. I have absolutely seen people break for real when they are caught, because they actually have to face up to the person they have become in that process. People don't understand what an affair actually requires longer term when they embark on it. The duplicitousness. Secrecy. Meticulous procedures to avoid discovery. Juggling multiple demands and keeping nobody happy. Even having to co-opt friends or family into being complicit. It can become incredibly stressful. For the AP, they can't be fully honest about their relationship with others, they have to make excuses why their partner can't come to birthdays, family events, why they're not there during illnesses, bereavements, etc. They are usually expendable when there's a crisis in the primary partnership/family. It can become embarrassing, stressful, create resentment, chip away at self esteem.

This isn't me sympathising with cheaters, just outlining the psychological toll it takes to maintain a relationship/marriage plus an affair, or to be an affair partner, and that most people will not have the foresight to fully appreciate not just how much they are likely to harm others, but the possible effect on their own mental state of maintaining that long term.

Of course, some cheaters won't care, and getting their rocks off is worth all of that. But I would say most of the people I've ever seen who had affairs have said they bitterly regret it.

A good summary, I think. It’s a situation that everyone leaves feeling a little wounded. That’s my experience anyway.

As far as the OP goes, for her own wellbeing it’s actually far better for her to focus on what wasn’t working in the primary relationship and to start doing things for herself. Focusing on hating the OW won’t help in the long run.

“A little wounded”? No. Increasing amounts of research show people (men and women) who are victims of infidelity suffer from symptoms incredibly similar to PTSD. That is absolutely not “a little wounded”, that is a very significant impact on someone’s mental health.

It is unfair to blame the other woman. She has not done anything wrong or immoral. It's your ex-husband who is the bastard.

You don't think it's immoral to sleep with someone who is married to someone else? What is it then?

You can absolutely blame the husband but the other woman is not innocent in it, if she knew he was married and chose to do it anyway.

If you have PTSD because of the way someone has treated you then your priority should be getting away from that person

Nope, I don't think it is a bad thing to do that as I am not deceiving anyone in those circumstances. I am single and free and it is not my problem what goes on in other homes.

Some are sociopaths, some are pathologically naive; all of them have important daddy issues.

It's always nice to hear that someone would happily play a part in causing someone pain because it's "not my problem".

You sleep with a married man and it blows up his wife's life, you're part of that whether you think it's your problem or not. You become part of it when you decide you wanting to shag someone trumps someone else's marriage.

Same situation but my anger, hurt and rage isn’t directed at her. It’s directed at my fuckwit soon to be ex husband who allowed things to progress.

The alternative being that not everyone thinks as you do. Whether you, I or a million other people think it’s shit - if the person doing it doesn’t then it makes no odds. All I’m saying is that some affair partners won’t take responsibility for something a married person is doing. They consider themselves single and that the responsibility lies with the person who made promises and gave guarantees that they would be faithful.

Well yes, but if you had even the slightest knowledge of PTSD you’d know that people who have it don’t always make the most rational decisions?
And either way, that’s not the point of this thread. If you have been complicit in causing that in another human, whether you know them or not? You are, in fact, a complete arsehole.

I probably have a better understanding of it than you do.

Because you say so? No, I think not and the research support my opinion.

I think they are pathetic creatures with extremely low self worth to behave in such a way! I don’t believe that the majority of them are either naive or stupid enough to believe the lies that men tell they just choose to believe it because it justifies their disgusting behaviour.

Based on what evidence?

I was an OW in my early twenties with someone who was the same age and in a childless marriage. I was, as follows:

• Madly in love with the person, all-consuming, and distraught I’d missed my chance with them before they were married. Also really romanticised the sort of narratives you get about missed chances and people being “meant to be”.
• Hugely motivated by lust and the incredibly good sex, which was like a drug.
• Jealous of the wife.
• Rebelling against my otherwise very cautious and strait-laced personality.
• Young and stupid.

Probably if they’d had children at that point it would have stopped me. But I know couples who’ve been happily together for 30 years who began as an affair in a bad/hasty/stale marriage. I think objectively people shouldn’t become OW but once lust and love get in the mix and you aren’t yourself committing adultery (especially if there’s been a big build up) or close to the spouse, it’s bad behaviour but it’s not personal culpability on anything like the same scale as that of the married person.

Just my opinion, Your Honor.

Fair enough. You were stating it as fact though. Thought you had some inside information.

There is an affair script. I read it on another thread recently. It was really well written too.

Yes, I'm full of myself today: feeling very daring.