Has anyone ever come back from a similar situation to this?

[ThisPoisedGoldGuide]

Married 10 years, together 20, from our early 20s.

2 kids aged 6 and 4. Separate bedrooms for the last couple of years, due to his snoring and kids being constantly in and out of our bed. Since the kids have been born it's been a bit 'ships in the night'. Sex very rare, especially in the last 2 years. It's become a bit awkward physically- little to no affection unless I force it.

I suppose I didn't worry too much in the early years of the kids, thinking it was just a phase every couple goes through. In the last year I've felt a bit more myself and I suppose have noticed the relationship dying and I've realised in comparison to friends relationships etc that we are lacking and that it can't all just be pinned on kids.

I've been making an effort to suggest things we could do together etc/projects we need to do around the house and he's just been so miserable about everything. Booking a holiday etc, just met with constant shoulder shrugging to the point where I've thought f**k it, the burden of planning etc all falls to me so I'm not going to organise it all just to drag him along behind me. I said to a friend the other week that I am the driving force of the whole family and it feels like I'm just dragging him through life sometimes.

After another day of him being miserable and non responsive to everything today, I asked outright 'do you want to split up?'. And he blurts out he doesn't know, he's been feeling like it's been over for ages, he feels guilty because he can see I've been making an effort and he knows he's been rejecting me and being a misery. Says he's been feeling like this for a year and a half or so. Swears blind there is nobody else, I think I believe him but I'm not 100% (learned that from here!). Says we are just flatmates, have nothing in common any more and he doesn't know if he loves me in that way any more. In some ways I shouldn't be surprised because I've obviously known things weren't right but him saying it still feels like a bolt from the blue and I'm obviously feeling hurt and rejected. I've asked him if he thinks he is generally depressed or whether it's the relationship (lack of) that's making him depressed.

I've said I would be willing to give it a go if he is, he says he's not sure. I said being unsure isn't really an option, I'm certainly not going to be hanging about while he makes his mind up. I've told him he either commits to trying, maybe look at counselling etc, or he moves into his mums house ASAP. She's 5mins away so would be easy in terms of maintaining contact with the kids and their routine etc.

I feel embarrassed at the thought of telling anyone in real life. I know I shouldn't, I have amazing friends and family, and in laws to be fair. I know in the event of a divorce that I'm the stronger person, I will survive and he will struggle. I will be worse off financially of course, but that can always be managed one way or another. If he had 50% custody he would struggle to cope/the kids would have a shit time just watching tv/being on ipads.

I don't know really, just wanted to write it all down and not quite feeling strong enough to tell anyone in real life right now.

Thank you everyone for your replies and for being so kind and honest.

We talked last night and he said he wants to commit to trying to work things out which seemed positive. However, after a sleepless night for me, I've woken up feeling quite angry really. I said this morning I don't really feel like you do want to work things out, you're just saying it because it's the 'right' thing to say. He was quite defensive about this, but I said that if he felt like things were salvageable, why has he not taken any of the olive branches I've been holding out for the last few months especially. He says he could see I've been making a big effort and that makes him feel even more guilty for feeling the way he does. Surely if he wanted things to work he would have already tried, rather than saying something that can never be unsaid, 'I'm not sure if I love you any more'? Even if by some miracle we did work it all out, I'll never forget that, will I?

What a head fuck honestly. And now I have a week off with the kids and this massive world project which requires a lot of concentration and effort from me. I've given the kids their ipads and come back to bed to try and sleep for an hour but I don't think I'm going to be able to.

I'm going to call my Employee Assistance Service today and see what I can get in terms of counselling. He agreed to marriage counselling so I guess I should try and arrange that too.

*work project

Thankfully, not a world project as I said in my last post. That would really send me over the edge. 🙃

I'm sorry you are going through this.

He agreed to marriage counselling so I guess I should try and arrange that too.

Why can't he arrange it? It would show that he is serious about it.

How you are feeling is very valid. You aren’t going to be able to sweep the fact he told you he might not love you under the table. He’s put that out there now. If he meant it then there isn’t hope for your relationship. If he didn’t mean it it’s up to him to do the work to prove it.

I think it’s a case of you don’t know what you’ve got until it’s lost. You’ve put in effort and that hasn’t worked for him to view your relationship differently. I would suggest saying that you want to work towards separation but you’re willing to do couples therapy to see if there is a relationship worth saving but you’re not having your heartbroken trying to make someone love you that doesn’t. It gives him a real choice- if nothing changes it’s divorce.

I would then start working on yourself, your friendships, hobbies etc so that you have a full life regardless of your relationship. Start working out finances too. This means if you do decide to give it a proper go it’s because you want to not because you are ‘stuck’.

Again I would do a little sleuthing to make sure there isn’t someone else. The last thing you want is putting in lots of effort only to be blindsided later on.

OP, I say this with kindness but my ex husband used very similar language and behaviour and he most certainly had a married OW waiting in the wings. Especially the language such as guilt and reluctant to plan ahead such as holidays. Regardless of whether your husband does, how dare he treat you and your family as cursory choices that he may or may not want! Sending you a big hug!

Thank you, I am lucky that I have great friends, I've always put effort into that. Especially the last couple of years when he hasn't really wanted to do things with me I've always done things with my friends. I'm not the type of person to sit around and mope. That's why I know I'll eventually be OK if we do split, even though this is still such a shock. I have quite an enriching life with lots of interests. I am a teacher, working 3 days a week so I earn a reasonable amount but life will be hard on just my wage. I don't know if I could cope with the demands of the job full time and there aren't any more hours available at my school at the moment but the option of moving elsewhere is there even though I don't want to, I'm settled in my work place and have super supportive colleagues that I class as friends.

He's gone to work- I've asked him to call his parents and explain what's happened and ask if they can have the kids today as I don't feel like I can stop crying and keep it together in front of them and I need to try and sleep/get some of my work done. I'm also going to call some of my friends. Fuck keeping it quiet out of embarassment and to protect him. My parents are babysitting my nieces and nephews today so I don't want to bother them but I'll speak to them tomorrow. I know they will back me 100% but also will be so upset.

Your family may be upset but you cannot be with someone who doesn’t see you as their priority. Doing so is very damaging. The doing things with friends or alone also sounds familiar. My ex saw his family as a poor second to everything else. I should have left him a long long time before I did. As a single parent, our home is happy and healthy. Of course, money is a juggle but peace is hard to put a price on. You are worth a lot more.

Look into what you are entitled to. You will get single person CT discount and other benefits being a single parent. If you are looking after the children more than 50% you will also be entitled to CM. See if you can get a free consultation with a solicitor to understand steps if you are to divorce and what you are likely entitled to.

Looking into this doesn’t mean you will divorce but don’t be waiting around for him to decide to love you or put effort in.

As pp I would recommend couple's counselling. Not necessarily to save your marriage but to be able to have a third party to help you sort things out. The result will be either:

1. You both find that you want to work on the relationship because you still love each other. Or
2. You want to separate and with a third party there it's so much easier to keep things calm and rational as to how your future will look like (house, co-parenting, how to talk to the children etc)

You do sound very mature but when we are in emotional distress we tend to hurt the other person and say things we don't mean. It's easier if you get some "coaching" as how to talk about your divorce with others as well. I wish you the best no matter what the outcome. Personally there are no other woman bells ringing for me, sounds like your husband is too lazy even for that😄

I think you could try counselling. You both sound lost. It’s not normal to lose each other just because you have kids. I would try to see if you can rekindle whatever you had at the start.

I went to Relate after I left dc’s father. Well, we did. We had 5 free sessions from the council, as they would save money on housing and benefits if our relationship could have been saved rather than potentially needing to house me. We had 3 together and 1 each separately (I think- it was a long time ago now). It might be worth seeing if there is something similar in your area, but in any event it could help you both to be good co-parents going forward even if you can’t save the relationship.

No you did the right thing. Trust your instinct. Life is too short.

He says he could see I've been making a big effort and that makes him feel even more guilty for feeling the way he does.

So he’s basically saying he’s only going go commit to try out of guilt? That’s hurtful but also, no foundation for really rebuilding- resentment will build on both fronts. I’d start with this in marriage counselling.

And put the ball in his court - tell him if he’s really committed to trying then he needs to be proactive and book it. Don’t do this for him.

Yeah that's exactly how I've woken up feeling this morning- he's only said yes to that to try and make himself feel less guilty and to try and soften the blow to me?

Who brought up the conversation last night? When he said he was committed to trying, did he describe how?
You say he was defensive this morning, did he offer any reassurances as well?
You say you have a rich and full life - does he as well? Or does he prefer to stay home / not do very much etc, I.e; have you grown apart?
MC might help you unpack whether there’s anything worth trying to save but only if he’s being honest. I do wonder if therapy for yourself to explore whether you want your DH or if actually, separating might make you happier?

We was in a similar situation and we came back from it. No other woman involved but lack of interest didn't know what he wanted etc like you op I was furious and ready to end it all.

What I started to realise though, was he didn't have the skills to save the relationship he didn't have the skills to even really find the right help.He didnt have the right mind set needed. I felt rejected and like he wouldn't even fight for us. I could of put him under the patio if I'm honest at that time. We had our own individual counselling but we had to find the right fit we went through a good few till we found good ones.

I realised he was actually really emotionally immature. He had never learnt how to resolve any conflict. His family don't talk about anything hard and his friends were the kind you see men have down the pub who never actually ask eachother how they are. He'd never learnt true empathy. When things were good between us he looked like a fully grown adult and capable. It wasn't till shit really hit the fan I realised he essentially was still a teenager only really equipped with sulking or avoiding if things were too difficult.

Very unattractive. Was it my responsibility to help him or find him help? Absolutely not.
But I was essentially asking him to learn skills and change his mindset over night. I had to give him time If he was going to have a shot at changing things. Equally I could of divorced and would of been Absolutely fine and happy. So I'm by no means saying this is the route for everyone but I also needed time to have my own therapy and get my own plan in motion so I felt in a good space to proceed whatever way things went.

After floundering about for a while he finally found a good therapist and it was like a light switched. He is not the same person at all. He is a better father better human husband all of it. We have our spark back it's truly wonderful.

The biggest thing that he did that saved us was taking on the responsibility to change his mindset. He saw it was him lacking in skills and started learning them. I was already trying, I was meeting him halfway but he would self sabotage the relationship or blame me. The moment he stopped getting in his own way it improved so much and so quickly! He also has consistently stuck with growing and evolving as a person which is lovely.

So op you need to do what feels right for you but if you feel like he isnt actually capable of salvaging the relationship it will take longer it's not as simple black and white of if he wanted to he would and then immediately able to do it.

Obviously if he just can't be arsed or there is another woman then completely different situation.
I'm sorry you're going through this op. It's really hard and such a shock.

I think the function of counselling here may be to allow both parties to explore what life will look like divorced and coparenting. Less money, requires both to have the kids on their own for parts of the week, need to maintain civil clear communication to coordinate childcare etc. What exactly would be better in his life and your life living separately? I've got a relative who was very disgruntled with a boring partner. The discovery that divorce would cost thousands and the sale of the house and a bunch of boring hassle over childcare focused minds somewhat on what to make an effort over

Quite honestly I think children often are the death of relationships.
Children in and out of your bed, sleeping separately, the boredom of young children and the day to day relationship.
When I look at people with very successful relationships (not me I've been married 3 times and divorced because I have very little tolerance for men who make zero effort with a relationship) they are people who are putting their relationship first...BOTH of them. But quite often it's mum doing it all and dad sitting around miserable but putting nothing into the marriage. It always takes two.
It's essential to act as a unit, have date nights, do things very regularly as a couple, have hobbies outside the home. Have common interests, not always putting the children and housework first but actually having a life outside the kids, loving each other and working as a team. Also neither of you just letting yourselves go. Who wants to see a partner in dirty pyjamas and homer Simpson slippers day after day.
If you don't water a plant it will just die.
It looks like neither of you have watered your plants for a long time.

Have two children. Never been in and out of our bed past the first few months for feeding. They are now adults. It’s obvious that this will affect your relationship long term surely!! I agree some people have such a low bar when choosing partners. Honestly would rather be single and childless than get with a bum.

I'm not making excuses but I had 2 in 18 months, breastfed them both and then obviously had to go back to work so just did what I needed to do to get by. In the end up, I was either pregnant or breastfeeding non stop for 4 years. In all honestly our bed is massive and comfortably fits the 2 of us and the kids. But anyway, the main reason for the separate beds is his horrific snoring, which he has always refused to address. Despite the fact he can't stay out of the doctors for every single other minor ailment he has/invents.

I don't think separate beds is the issue! There are many successful relationships where the partners don't sleep in the same bed and many that have been saved by moving to separate beds.

How are you feeling? Have you managed to speak to your people? Get as much support round you as you can.

A fair few things going on here. Counter to the tone of others here.

Firstly, you should look in to counselling regardless of staying together or splitting up. There will be loads of things to resolve and people are not skilled in discussing these things effectively. If you are in a low conflict separation it is likely to be better to work out a separation amicably (potentially experimenting and adapting) than using lawyers. Or you may save the marriage. Either way it makes sense.

Secondly, he may be depressed. So he needs to go and address that as if he is there are a not many positive options open until he addresses that. If he seems depressed I suspect the chance of an OW is low, if he were suddenly full of excitement and active but not interested in you that would be more of a sign. If he just seems uninterested in life that is unlikely to be due to maintaining a secret double life.

Thirdly, a good councillor will probably have to help you undo the mindset people on MN will try and get you in. You are coming at this with “he is the one that's completely blown our lives up,” has he? You presumably both let the time together slide, both let the sex disappear, both agreed to the separate rooms. You may have made an effort recently when you noticed things were dying but he was already feeling things were over by the time you started making an effort.

It sounds like he hasn’t gone and cheated with your best friend or anything which would be “blowing up” things. If you make this all his fault, this is over. You could be looking at a high conflict divorce or multiple other unpleasant outcomes. On the other hand if you both recognise you both let this happen you may come back. People will jump in to validate you are wonderful and he is terrible. The reality is that most of the time both are partly responsible when things fall apart. Blaming the other party probably makes you feel better but that is only good if you have already decided you want out.

You would be best off with a councillor regardless.

OP - i think you should be very clear with him, and tell him

"as per usual, you're too passive/cowardly to take responsibility for fixing the mess you've created, so as always, i am stepping up for our family. here's how you can decide if you're in or out:

1. you need to leave the house for a set period (say 3 weeks)
2. you need to be the lone-parent for at least some of that time (say, weds dinnertimes, and either 1 whole weekend, or 1 day from each weekend)
3. you have DC at your parents house, or out somewhere - you don't come back into the family home to have them
4. after the second week, you have 1 week to make your decision"

then use that time to sort yourself out, and work out if you want to carry on, get your ducks in a row, and establish what it would look like if he's out.

if he's still chickening out of making the decision after the 3 weeks, you decide if you want to keep dangling, or if you just want out.

i would imagine that if he's still prevaricating after all that, your anger and resolve will probably have grown and hardened quite a lot, meaning you'll be quite happy to make the decision!

Thank you everyone, I'm reading everything and taking in all of your advice. @Thisistyresome You're right, we both have responsibility for not investing enough into the relationship during the young kid years. Maybe it's a bit petulant but I do feel like I have more excuse than him for that considering I'm the default parents and did the night wakes etc. Anyway, you're right that I would want to try and avoid a high conflict divorce if it does go that way. I'm just very, very hurt that he had clearly already checked out and when he could see I was trying hard to re-connect, it didn't galvanise him to think that that there was something worth saving. Also, I wish he had worded it differently instead of saying he doesn't know if he loves me, that can't be unsaid and even if we patch things up I don't think I can forget that. I do think he's depressed, but if he doesn't want to address that I guess I'm a bit helpless in that scenario.

I've asked him to stay with his parents for a few days which he's agreed. Any thoughts on what to say to the kids at this stage? I thought maybe I could say he was helping them with some big jobs in the garden after work so just decided to stay over.