Instincts are there for a reason

[Honeymare]

I've heard instincts are there to protect us. But what if instincts are ALL you're going on? I don't honestly consider myself very intuitive anyway, I tend to make cautious, logical assesments over time.

My DH has a long time fitness hobby. He's gotten very serious about it again recently and is training very regularly with a group, of mixed sexes. The training is not strange. We are both into fitness (different things) and have ramped things up recently.

Something about the dynamic between him and another woman in the group is making the hair stand up on the back of my neck - Lara. Lara is also married. Lara is friendly to me. I've never seen anything untoward between them.

But when we are in a group it feels like the air is charged between my DH and Lara, like they don't see anyone else and they keep gravitating towards each other.

We were all out in a group the other day and I felt the same even though they didn't sit beside each other or speak more than anyone else. There was another woman Stacey from the group and she seemed to be squirming. In my mind I was inventing Stacey's thought process of "this is so uncomfortable seeing his wife and DC here after what I'm witnessing with this other pair." I don't actually know Stacey either (stunning looking and if I was to be jealous of anyone it should be her but I'm not) so I have no idea if she's just quiet or was actually feeling uncomfortable around DH and Lara. It is an extreme stretch.

Another night we all got very drunk. At one point I was chatting to Lara's husband, I turned to my DH who was talking to Lara. That's when I felt it so completely, time kept passing and it felt like they were oblivious to everyone else. Everything went into slow motion, it felt torturous. I was looking at them and it felt like watching a movie suddenly figuring it out all. I then turned back to Lara's husband and he raised his eyebrows at me. We were all very drunk so I don't trust mf assessment of the evening at all.

I honestly have never felt my instincts so riled up. I can't explain it. The logical part of my brain is telling me I'm being paranoid and ridiculous yet I can't shake it.

I had a dream last night which was very detailed and drawn out. It was about a completely different set of circumstances but the message was crystal clear; everyone knows what's going on with your DH but you. When I woke up and looked at my DH I immediately thought that was about Lara (she wasn't even in the dream). I am rattled.

It sounds from your messages like you feel fairly secure and confident in the relationship that you have with your husband and his love for you.

If this is the case then just like anything else that would cause a big feeling within you it deserves to be communicated with him. Lead from your feeling - you know what that is . Not what he may or may not have done - you don’t know what that is. This doesn’t need to be accusing him or judging him or telling him what he’s doing. Simply that this strong feeling has arisen in you (stay on you in thr convo) and see what he does with it.

Hopefully as someone who loves you something that makes you feel strongly will be something he will want to know about and want to try and fix. Especially as you have said you do not have president for being the controlling judging type. He may be defensive at first but give him a little time.

if it is an unacted upon crush, you will be shedding light on it and aligning yourself with him rather than becoming an adversary with him and you can both decide what to do about it. Everyone can have a crush it’s how people act on them that is the problem.

@Rainsunrainsun perhaps I'm not so secure in myself though because everytime I think about bringing up a conversation about Lara I feel sick to my stomach.

I feel like letting her be a topic is giving her power, bigging her up to him, making me look small, jealous, threatened, insecure.

I don't want him to think "oh wife is threatened by Lara" in case it makes Lara look more alluring.

I know that's a pretty sad way to think but it's the truth. I always admire that DH never gets jealous but always seems full of admiration for me.

And there is another issue too - he's really happy and motivated at the moment. Their group is gelling very well and he's having a good time hanging out. I don't want to make it a stressful topic.

I did tell him I was feeling neglected and he stepped it up all weekend. I hope it wasn't done out of duty. I hope this is a nonsense crush and it passes. If it doesn't, I don't honestly know what I will do. I know I won't compete for attention.

I totally understand this and it’s not a sad way to feel - you feel threatened and there is some fear right now in your relationship so it’s hard to be vulnerable or take emotional risks. Especially as it sounds like being unpossessive, and supportive rather than jealous is a quality you value and has been a key part of your relationship. So that all makes total sense.

I guess I would just think if it was the other round what you would want from him? Would you want to leave him feeling like this alone rather than saying anything?

Also understand that you don’t want to give this power but in my work we often see that the things that have the biggest power are the ones not said. And actually naming things and bringing light to them diminish the power.

Saying all of that, you are the expert in your own relationship. If it doesn’t feel right to name it right now then don’t — you’ve already said something important about feeling a bit distan so that’s refocusing on your connection with him - so see what happens with that. Also try hard to focus back on yourself (I know easier said than done).

Right now, all you have is a bad feeling. It may well be 100% correct - certainly sounds like something is going on, even if they’ve not acted on it yet.

Here’s the thing, though. Maybe all they feel at this point is attraction. Maybe they’ve not put that into words either in person or via electronic messages. Maybe it has reached that stage and you’d find a wealth of evidence on his phone. And they may or may not have got physical in some way. You say that you want him to choose to not do something with her, to choose you, essentially. And in an ideal world, that is what would happen.

But right now, you’re potentially watching a car crash in real time. You can see all the signs, you have your suspicions it is going to happen, if it hasn’t already, but as yet that is all there is. Now, if the car crash happens and destroys both marriages, do you want to look back and be able to say that you tried to grab the wheel and avert it, or that you let it happen because you wanted your husband to work out the probability for himself?

Of course he should choose you, and not take things further with her: that should go without saying. And maybe he’ll suddenly twig what’s going on and stop it dead because that’s not actually the path he wants to take. There is a period in anything like this where it just feels like a strong friendship because ‘it can’t possibly be anything more’ - right up until one of them realises their heart beats a little faster, or a kiss happens. It is what happens next that matters: does he pull back from the brink or follow the hormones?

You may still be in a position to dump a bucket of cold water on what is happening and prevent it going beyond that glimmer of attraction. Maybe he’ll work it out and stop and that bucket of water isn’t necessary, but are you willing to risk it? I would want my husband to talk to me if he saw me heading down that path, and I would sure as hell talk to him because if we can’t talk about something this important the marriage is doomed to fail anyway.

People like to say “trust your instincts” but instincts can be very off, especially if you are too close.

What Is a better idea is if you get an indication is to ask someone who is actually good at spotting things to observe and see what they think. They are a bit further from it so will be more objective.

Also, look to see if there are other indications. If it is a running club do they only meet in that group or do they meet up one to one?

Instincts have a use but don’t trust them completely. If a friend sees this and thinks it is off, that may be an easier opener to discuss it with him you could also then point out her husband noticing something.

It's hard to say. I think the general distance but it wasn't obvious at 1st. Then he stopped being so house proud. He used yo come from work wash the cars cut the grass..took pride in our home, that stopped. It felt like he was just crashing here..then but by bit more and more got added to my suspicions. We've were together for 27 years so I knew him so well..at the time. Never in a million years did I think he'd do what he did but he changed last year..I didn't recognise him towards the end.

I think given as a lot of communication is non verbal, you are probably picking up on his non verbal cues and noticing he is attracted to her.
This doesn’t mean he has acted on it and it sounds like you have a strong marriage.
A great tip I had from a friend was to call an apparent attraction or crush out in a lighthearted way. When my husband was working with a new colleague he clearly fancied, I called him out on it in a joking way “gosh you keep mentioning x, I think you’ve got a little crush there!”. He denied it but bringing it into the light really took the spark out of it and did make him stop and think about boundaries etc. Something similar here may be helpful to get it out in the open.

When you very first asked him all that time ago if there'd ever been anything between them, his answer was 'of course not, she's been married for ages.' Not 'no, she's not my type.' As though the marriage were the only reason why.

In conjunction with your instincts, I think you need to talk to him.

I would say trust your instincts, not by assuming he's cheating or whatever but in terms of noticing there's stuff you aren't comfortable with and figuring out how to deal with that. I personally think you seem rational and should talk to him. Its good you don't want to go through his phone and that you aren't proposing he stops doing the class, but that doesn't mean you should just take it all on the chin and worry in silence.

I agree with some other posters.
When two people have chemistry, it’s obvious to everyone.
I would point out to your dh how obvious it is that even Lara’s dh has picked up on it and you two shared a knowing look. What’s going on?

OP,

It wasn't stupid idea, I think it was a great idea! What a lovely surprise for him.

But...he was car sharing with Lara and others, had organised free tickets for them, and was annoyed about it.

Hmm. I mean if he'd got free tickets for the others I wouldn't think anything of it...but there she is, popping up again.

Would he have mentioned the car share etc. if you hadn't had to bring up the event? And why hadn't he just mentioned in passing what was happening at the event anyway?

Definitely trust your gut.

A lot of our social understanding operates on inference and picking up unspoken types of communication. I think you’re picking up on a whole load of unsaid communication between them, and that you’re correct. There’s a communication channel running between them that you’re not part of. Whether it extends to anything tangible like texts or emails, it’s there. Trust yourself, these are ancient perception systems.

If someone asked me if I had something going on with someone who was married that's what I would say as it would be ridiculous to think I'd go with a married person. And on top of that maybe she is his type- as in a nice girl and not ugly.

Well yes this was my thought. She's attractive looking, she's nice and she's into the same stuff as him. I hit all those notes too (even though we don't look alike) which I presume is why he pursued me. I mean it's all surface level at the very beginning. I've no issue with whether he would have fancied her IF she had been single when he was single.

She hasn't been a thorn in the relationship for years or anything, I literally had forgotten I'd ever asked him about her. She's someone whose name gets occasionally mentioned in our circles along with about 40 other people who I would expect to recognise my name too.

I'm not going to do anything in the immediate future. I don't want for him to feel tension about his hobby and I certainly don't want him getting covery. He hasn't actually done anything wrong so far here and I think if I ask him he will focus on that. I would rather wait and make sure I'm at the next social gathering, NOT get drunk and watch; I'll watch both of them and more importantly I'll watch her husband to see if I imagined or misinterpreted that look.

Yes he hasnt done anything wrong (in terms of all you are basing things on is a feeling). I dont agree having a feeling is a reason to check someone's phone. There would need to be lies, or behaviour changes, or sneaky behaviour in order to get to the stage of phone checking.

Like you say be sober at the next meeting and watch and listen. If something continues to not feel right then just speak to him and gauge his reaction.

Ugh I'm reviving this as I'm feeling really crap. We went out last night on a 'date'. I organised it, the babysitter and the restaurant with great reviews.

I was feeling a bit cr about my appearance, even though I've been working hard at getting back into shape. I got rid of a load of clothes that are too big and was feeling good in a few new pieces. But now they are also too big and hanging loose and shapeless so I'd bought a couple of aspirational going out outfits which don't fit yet. So I just felt a bit stressed trying to get ready in between sizes. My reliable date dress looked like a sack on me. Then when we were going out the door he looked irritated and said he would just drive as he wasn't going to bother drinking.

It wasn't so much about the alcohol (I wouldn't have minded not drinking) but his attitude smarted, it felt like he was resenting going out with just me like I'm not worth a hangover. Anyway when we got there, he decided to leave the car and we had a nice dinner with wine then he suggested we go for a couple more in the bar where we had our first date.

All good, we had a nice time if not overrun with chemistry or flirting. I was looking forward to getting home and into bed with him regardless. We get home, see the babysitter back and upstairs. I go into the bathroom to sort myself out. I know this is not sounding like wild in the door tearing each others clothes off sort of passion but it's how i have to do things now for various reasons.

I came out expecting him to admire my lingerie etc and he was lying down asleep.

Well the combination of the disappointment, apparently rejection and yes alcohol bubbled over and I barked his name so he jumped up then got really upset saying I was not going to be bothered with any of this and he could f off with Lara and does he think I'm a fool etc etc.

He basically held his hand up and said he wasn't listening to this wine fuelled crap and was going to sleep.

This morning I said we needed to talk and the whole thing left me feeling no better. He basically didn't seem remotely concerned (or surprised) with me feeling off and was in full on defence mode saying she's a married woman that he sees as part of the group and is friendly, he likes her, he likes her husband and I'm being crazy.

I feel gaslit but also unreasonable.

Ah OP. I think you are letting this eat you up too much. You don’t need to try so hard and I’m sure he was just tired after the night out. I would be focusing more on yourself and feeling good about yourself and less about trying to look nice/set up nice things for him. He just sounds like a typical thoughtless man not noticing the effort.

Thanks for your reply but honestly it didn't feel typical.

I have NEVER come out dressed for sex to find him anything other than waiting expectantly. Not once.

And I keep replaying the conversation this morning. It was so focused on me and how he had done nothing. If I was waaaay off target wouldn't his reaction have been "and WHY are you bringing up Lara, are you talking about the woman from hobby? Wtf does she have to do with anything. It's totally bizarre you're annoyed about her. I barely know the woman."

But he didn't even mention her until I queried him ignoring the topic. I said "you know if you were upset about some man I was spending time with I'd want to know what was bothering you. But you don't even seem surprised I'm upset about her. "

He seemed uncomfortable then and was saying "she's friendly, I like her that's all. I like her husband too, they are a nice couple" he is notoriously bad at remembering people's names or having opinions on people he would spend way more time with. I find it really worrying.

I’m so sorry @Honeymare , I feel the same way you do. Why wasn’t he surprised.

If there was nothing going on, you’re right, he would have said “Lara? The woman from hobby? wtf???”

It sounds to me like he thinks you have more evidence than you do.

I’m so sorry. I’ve been there. The gaslighting and the constant lying.

How has it been left? What is he saying?

He’s your husband and you know him best.If you think something is not right then it isn’t.

This is it. There was zero astonishment or confusion.

His reaction would have made sense if we were arguing about his ex that he works with but is always causing trouble (this is a hypothetical example).

I'm pissed off now.

He's been in a grump today, snapping at DC but he isn't a big drinker and we had quite a few. He's just come back from a run and suggested I do the same. He seems in better form.

I agree. It's hard to explain - except that we are human and humans have spent two million years observing one another's behaviours, so we've evolved pretty good skills! Still, it is hard to explain, which is why it's so easy to make a person mistrust their instincts.

I remember telling a small group of friends that I felt like XH and a woman friend of his might have something going on. My reason? At a party, the pair of them almost seemed to be circling each other. They weren't showing intimacy or touching one another, nothing like that. But neither were they moving casually past each other: it was as if there was a gravitational pull between them.

Having related what I felt was a ridiculous story, I was surprised that all of my friends knew exactly what I meant! "Kind of dancing without touching", said one. Another pointed out that, when this happens, the pair spend a lot of time in close proximity but touch less than friends normally would in a crowded room.

So, yes, we have instincts for a reason. One could probably drill down to the specific cues our amygdalae pick up and put together for conscious consideration. I feel you're right about your husband and Lara, OP. I wouldn't claim to know how deep their mutual involvement goes ... but I fully understand how rejected you felt last night, and how his belittling of you this morning must have hurt.

I'm sorry OP. It sounds like he isn't being completely honest.

Ok I'm on my way out to meet a couple of women friends for a late lunch. This was a long standing arrangement, I was looking forward to it as we always have lots of fun and blocked out my calendar for no morning meetings. When he was being grumpy this morning he said "surely you're not drinking again today?" I am not in the humour for any pas-ag remarks so was ignoring him. I had considered driving but then I thought no, this has been planned for ages, I'm sticking to the original arrangement. We were fairly short with each other all morning.

He went for his run then I was working out and he went off reading then emerged looking smiley. I usually walk 15 mins to the train but he noticed I was pressed for time so he went and got his car keys and dropped me down. He said "don't walk back from the train when you get back honey, I'll come down and get you just to be safe".

Then he kissed me goodbye and kinda played with my hair smiling and me and I realised he looked really sorry. It was sweet.

My thinking now is that I wasn't imagining things but he's cleared his head and had a bit of a wake-the-f-up moment. I obviously don't have a crystal ball but if I had to guess I think he realised he was being a dick, that I'm not a fool and he has been indulging a crush but it needs to stop.

Fingers crossed that's the end of it all, including my own discontent.

I suspect people will think I'm naive but he is very trusting of me. I've male friendships since before I've met him but a couple which developed after I met him and he's never raised an eyebrow about meals out alone or stuff like that. He's even invited my most recent ex around for dinner after he did some work for one of our friends.

I don't think I'm wrong with my instincts about a vibe between them but I want to believe he will do the right thing and course correct.

I had the same thing re ex dh and a work colleague he struck up a friendship with. He actually bought her to our house for dinner and I knew for a certainty something was going on, despite zero actual evidence for it. I was right.