In what circumstances does a father get full custody of his child?

[athenaswrath]

Hi,

I was just wanting to know the answer to this question, the father of my child who is a complete narcissist and bully has stated to the judge yesterday that he going for full custody of our child after trying to prove I was mentally unstable which didn’t work and I was granted permission to take our daughter abroad. He is using everything he can which is very little to try and make my life as difficult as possible. I’ve got another court case after my holiday and he has stated he wants her full time or if not full time 50/50 (make up your mind)

This bloke has put me through hell the last 2 years and he’s really affected me mentally. As you can imagine trying to co parent with a narcissist is unbelievably hard.

He is also going to use my eldest son as a means of getting her too he has said she is unsafe round him and he worries about her round him because my eldest has a diagnosis of ADHD and is being assessed for ASD he has in the past been verbally aggressive and has put holes in my walls from his outbursts, he did two years ago accidentally break his younger brothers arm when play fighting but social come round and that case was closed. He is not a threat to our daughter he absolutely adores her but this is one of the things he will use in court. He has tried to make me look mental and like I am unstable too because I suffer with depression and anxiety.

I know I have a huge battle coming up and need to prepare for the vicious lies he’s going to attack me with. I just need some advice if possible please.

It’s highly unlikely unless he has concrete evidence you are a danger to your children.
My brother had a horrendous time for 8 years battling his ex in court to try and see his daughter (she abruptly stopped access when he was in a relationship and his daughter told her Mum she liked the new partner).
His ex isolated the daughter from everyone, police were involved multiple times, the court still didn’t see her as a danger to her daughter, just a bit of a shit Mum.

However, it’s not unlikely that he’ll be allowed 50/50. If that’s the case, set out specific days and times in the court order, if he continues to fail to meet those days and times, take him back to court to reduce the court order.

So sorry this is happening to you. I found Dr Emma Katz's research helpful and maybe useful to support your defence in any court hearing? She has a Substack with really useful posts. Surviving this kind of abuse is unbearable and exhausting - stay strong for your daughter, know that you're the protective parent she needs and you're doing an amazing job.

https://dremmakatz.com/

It happened to a close friend of mine. Her exdh has done everything possible to paint her picture as being unstable. Multiple lies never proven by anything. She had to move out from their matrimonial home due to his abuse. WA involved all the way through and she had police assistance when moving out - he was trying to physically block her from leaving the house. In the end he used that fact, and said that it is in the best interest of their child (9 at the time) to remain in the family home and not to be moved anywhere. She rented something 5mins drive from where they used to live but still was made to be too far. The court finally agreed with him. Statements of abuse from WA didn't help, psychological opinion of her circumstances didn't help, everything seemed to be ignored in ex's favour and his lies were horrendous.
She still didn't recover from it years later. DS has been manipulated and alienated.
Be careful op.

one parent will get full custody over the other if one is a safeguarding risk and has been assessed to be unable to meet a child’s needs.

My own experience is that the threshold for getting full time custody is high.

In my case the children were at risk of DV from a new partner of the other parent. This was completely unknown to me until I received that phone call from social services. Subsequent risk assessment showed new partner was a medium-high risk to the children in a domestic setting.

The challenge was to me that the agencies who report to the court (CAFCASS/Social services) operate on a ‘listen and relay’ basis. So it was ‘enough’ for other parent to say ‘I’m not seeing that person anymore’ and that would be reported to court and case closed. It was later proven by another government agency to be untrue.

What I would say about the entire process is that it turned me from victim of persistent and somewhat minor harassment e.g. threatening to destroy my car, driving by my house, persistent phone calls from them and other family members, encouraging the children to repeat things that they don’t understand, into someone who doesn’t stand for it.

The court process absolutely wasn’t what I expected. But if I can give you some advice it would be:

• document and report wherever possible. If your kids are experiencing anxiety about going to Dad’s, take them to the GP and tell the GP.
• when they go low, you go high. It is easier to survive the process when you are whiter than white. So if you are struggling with your mental health and I do get it, mine was shot to bits with it all, have a demonstrable plan that shows you have a plan, a support network, a job and stability. If it’s called into question you have the ability to show how you manage it. It is easy to be dragged down to their level and sling mud, don’t do it.
• find a good representative. McKenzie Friends can be a cheaper alternative to a solicitor.
• wear them out. Solicitors are expensive and every time they send you a letter it costs £80. Let them. Let them send another one. And another one. Costs soon mount up and they soon stop.

Good luck - full custody to one parent v unlikely from people I know. I’ve got one person I know whose ex is in jail long term for a very violent offence and the psych advice was it was better for the kid to see that parent a few times a year so they don’t romanticise them. Ditto friend where dad in and out of jail for drug offences - same advice. I know someone else who has spent an insane amount of money trying and so far failing to get full custody over at least 18 months now.

It’s extremely unlikely he will get or even wants full custody. Even if he gets 50/50 the chances are he won’t stick to that.

Mostly he wants to hurt you and worry you.

Protect yourself. When he sends his nasty messages do not engage in any way. Don’t ask him if he reported you to the council. You know he did. Don’t give him the satisfaction of knowing they turned up and it was stressful. If you ever have to see him absolute grey rock. Only talk about your child. Anything else ignore or have grey rock responses to hand ‘ok’ ‘sure’ ‘aha’ ‘right’ ‘I must go now or I’ll be late’ ‘good to know’ etc.

Take the power back OP.
See your GP maybe they can set you up with some free counselling. Take strength from your friends and those who support you. Try to laugh about his antics with them, that will make him seem smaller. Each time he’s nasty, that’s him losing his cool. You keep yours. Narcissists hate it when their tricks don’t work. When you ignore them. Don’t feed his ego by letting him think he’s getting to you.

He says ‘I’m going to get full custody, you’re mental’ you either ignore it completely or grey rock ‘OK’.

He is going to try and undermine that holiday. Grey rock all his nonsense and have a lovely relaxing time.

💐

If he takes you to court and says you're mentally unstable you need to make sure the judge sees a copy of the mental health teams report, if they say he's the cause of your distress that will count against him. He doesn't really want custody Op, he's trying to punish you for leaving him, you dented his huge ego.

I’m going through something similar. It’s one of the reasons I “chose” to stay with him for so long.. he’s the unstable unsafe one, but because he’s a Narc, he’s also manipulative, influential, makes excuses and blames and tells stories about me. I once snapped after he was raging at me (after years of rarely responding), and he started recording me and keeps using it as “proof” I’m not safe around the kids.
Have you got any evidence of abusive behaviour from him? Recordings? Texts? Have you ever been to the police? Has he?
I don’t know how courts work because I’ve been too terrified to get as far as that.. but I hope that lawyers and judges are well versed in abuse cases and are trained to recognise it.
I was told by a social worker that it’s rare to take children from their mother, but it’s possible the courts can offer 50/50. To me that would be a terrible situation so I stay with him in order to to protect my children.
Have you contacted Woman’s Aid? A pro bono lawyer? Get people behind you, collect evidence and be as informed as you can be.
Living with and leaving a Narc when there are kids involved is horrific. All I can offer is my sympathy.

He doesn’t want to take care of the kids. He wants to punish you and control everything. Using the custody card is extremely common because it’s the one thing they know will hurt and scare us the most.

Yes this is my worry I don’t think he is personally stable if honest and wouldn’t want her brought up by him.

i don’t think he has concrete evidence he has a couple of messages if me saying you keep her then as you constantly say you can do a better job than me that’s literally when I’ve been super depressed and asked for him to help support me with her instead of giving me constant abuse.

I have video evidence on a ring door cam, I have text messages and voice recordings of him.

Yes this! She’s just a weapon for him.

@Jujujudoalso police reports when I’ve reported him.

Ok all good. As long as you have evidence of his abuse then that’s on your side. Try to find a therapist or lawyer who specialises in Narcs.

My brother was main carer for his children until his ex had an affair.

he sought legal advice, and was told main residence is always given to the mother unless he could prove she was unfit- as others have said drugs/alcohol, or otherwise serious level of neglect. He was advised not to persue, as he may as well just contribute to the solicitors private school fees there and then….

he went from doing 70% of the parenting, to homeless, having to work all hours to pay cms and accelerate his career, only seeing his kids on a Wednesday and a Saturday, while his ex relied heavily on our parents for childcare in the week.

I only know one person it has happened to. In her case, her narcissist ex has been able to convince the court that she is mentally unstable and not able to provide a stable home environment.

To be fair, I think she probably is a bit mentally unstable and her child does have behavioural issues that are, at least in part, probably caused by her poor parenting. She lets him get away with anything. He destroys the house, is cruel to pets, generally a little nightmare. But no doubt his behaviour is also a reflection of how abusive his dad is and the language and attitude he has seen used by his dad towards mum and other women.

Dad is also a member of a travelling community (mum is not), so besides having a lot of money for a legal fight, I think there was also a bit of panic on the part of the courts not to come across as ethnically prejudiced or like they were trying to deny the child his ethnic roots. That’s just my personal sense.

By the sounds of it you’ve got evidence of him being abusive and the impact on you (the mental health assessment, gp appointment etc) but it also wouldn’t hurt to refer yourself to a local domestic abuse charity for support with post separation abuse. I’d also complete the freedom programme. You can do that online or if your little one is under 5 you can go to the children’s centre and do it in person. Having knowledge of domestic abuse will aid you massively as you’ll be able to highlight it to cafcass (who would do the assessment) and in any statements you make and it’s widely recognised that domestic abuse negatively impacts kids. I’d also consider ways you can evidence the impact of his actions on the kids. This may just be a diary of what he does and comments the kids make. Because of the she said he said nature of a diary though I’d also think about professionals who might note an impact on the kids. For instance might a school have shared concerns about a child’s well-being after contact etc. If so if you can get that in writing it will help massively.

The only case I know of, the Mum tried to relinquish PR and said she didnt want custody. You haven't said how old the children are but you might find even if gets 50-50 he might change his mind they often don't have clue what involved when actually parenting when it comes to it.

Our daughter is 2, my other three are 14,12 and 9

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I went through similar with my ex. He tried to paint me as an abusive, mental monster. The court accepted that I was a good mother and had no mental health problems. He still got full custody of our eldest who was 8 at the time, because he alienated him against me and our DS told CAFCASS that he hated me and wanted to live with his Dad. I got full custody of our youngest who was 3 years old.

My situation is different to yours in that my DS was apparently old enough to make his own choice. But my point is that he could make all the false claims that he wanted, the court didn’t believe him or he would have been given custody of both. They won’t take a toddler away from Mum unless there are genuine safeguarding issues that can be proven.

(FWIW eldest DS hasn’t spoken to his Dad in years and now he’s an adult he understands what a narcissistic, manipulative liar he is). Keep fighting, and good luck!

There has been a recent change with the introduction of new DA guidelines for CAFCASS in October 2024. In my personal experience, this has made a massive positive difference in terms of recognition of controlling behaviours and of the harm to the emotional wellbeing of the children. Good luck, OP! 💐

The thing is he tried to say I was mentally unstable in yesterday’s court hearing regarding why he doesn’t consent to me taking her abroad. The judge granted it so I’m guessing this can be used if he continues to say I am mentally unstable?

OMG this is unfair, see I know mothers can be like this too but I’ve never been a mum to use her children as ammo that’s just not me. I’ve never stopped contact either he’s always had contact with her too.