Should my wife support me on this?

[OzzyGrandad]

My wife & I attended a Christmas dinner at our daughters in laws. The dinner was on the table but there were still a few items to be placed & finalized. I asked my daughters mother in law if it was ok to start, she said yes. The rest of the party sat down & I had already begun eating. (I admit was not a good move). I believe the son of the mother in law wanted to say grace before dinner & was angry that I had started. He launched into a tirade of abuse, aggressively belittling me about my bad manners. I tried to explain that his mother had said it was ok to start, but this was ignored. I remained calm for the rest of the evening & then we went home. The next day I texted the son, explained my position & informed him that I would not tolerate such verbal abuse again, hoping he would regret being so abusive & apologize. He texted back, F off D Head.
We drop our grandson at his house every weekend & he returns him on Sunday. I asked my wife, when he drops his son off, to be courteous, but to not show any of the usual friendliness, just pick him up & say goodbye until he apologizes to me for his behavior. My wife refused, saying it was between me & him. She behaved as if nothing had happened & was friendly.
My question to the readers of this story is, should my wife have agreed to just be courteous & not friendly, or was she right to ignore my feelings on the matter.

@OzzyGrandad Did he go back to saying the grace after the tirade?

??????? Id be pissed about this & quite frankly towards everybody who sat through you being berated at a family dinner. Of course your wife wants to move on from it. It was embarrassing towards her, shows what your son is actually like Infront of his wife & it's just all round easier to pretend it didn't happen then call him out on it.

We do that all the time in our house. In a family situation we are super relaxed. We don’t want food to get cold so just say start. Honestly are everyone’s families really formal?

You have every right to feel your wife is disloyal to you.
I wouldn't tolerate his behaviour and I certainly wouldn't have a meal with him again.
He sounds like utter scum.

You and your wife have been dealt a very tough hand.

Look, you've acknowledged that you shouldn't have started. And it was clearly a new thing, the saying grace. This chap has been very poorly behaved in being so verbally abusive, he could have said "hey ozzy we haven't said grace so please stop eating" or something of that effect.
So I don't think you're wrong to feel a bit put out, I also am not sure your approach of a text message the next day was smart. And he's clearly a hot tempered guy so he's overreacted to that too.
But I'm not sure what you're after now. This guy is going to be in your grandsons life for a long time, you can't just go no contact. So you have to find a way through. Have you tried speaking to his mum, the host? Saying "look I messed up but I don't like the vitriol I'm getting. Can you find out if he's got some other beef going on here?"
Because it sounds like he's either unhinged or he's got something more than this bothering him.
The smart thing to do is to actually to do a very public apology, ideally in front of his mum and other people who were there.
Something like "hey you were really angry with me for starting that dinner too early and I've reflected and it was a terrible thing to have done and I just wanted to apologise to everyone right now because clearly I was so out of line and i know you were so so angry and said I was xx and yy" you get the idea
The advantage of an OTT apology like this , is that it will give him nowhere to go. He can't be angry anymore because you've apologised, you've also highlighted his anger and bad behaviour which means he will think twice before doing it again. And the others will be expecting him to apologise for his words and say hey that's OK ozzy sorry for my reaction.

First of all I want to say how much I commend you and your wife for how you have handled all these tremendously challenging circumstances, for the sake of supporting your daughter and GS.

From your account of what happened it doesn't seem that you have done anything much, if at all, wrong, and your GS's father was far more to blame. However, you seem to have expectations of reasonable behaviour from this person, despite the fact he may not be capable of it; from the way you talk about him it seems you have never thought much of him. You state how much you have done to support him and facilitate his relationship with your GS; however there are people who are resentful of, rather than grateful for support. This man may just be one of those. It sounds as though you are angry that he is not reciprocating; but he can't or won't reciprocate, and the reality is you can't control that.

So you may need instead to lower expectations of reasonable behaviour from him in the interests of everyone else especially your GS - including any hope of apology or hope of an acknowledgement of the hurt caused. You might need to 'write him off' in your head and accept that he is either unwilling or incapable of showing courtesy & appreciation.

Perhaps that is what your wife is doing? Have you actually talked to her about it, not with any expectations such as a view to convincing her of the need to show you 'loyalty' but just to listen and understand where she is coming from? Several other posters have mentioned that she may be centring her GS's interests and because of this may want to avoid any risks to GS of him seeking more visitation or even custody. She may be right that cordiality and pleasantness is the way to go here, even if it is undeserved. Generally speaking, women are far more accustomed to having to put their own feelings to one side for the sake of a greater good.

I agree that you need your wife on your side - but maybe not in the way you are thinking.

This post gives good advice. An apology is quite clearly not going to be forthcoming. OP has already asked for one and received a response that can only be described as unambiguous.

The dignity ship has sailed. The issue is now not so much the clash between two men. It's about OP's desire to dictate his wife's own responses to the situation, as though she's not an individual, autonomous adult with a mind and decision-making capacity of her own. This is where my limited sympathy expires. It's controlling, dictatorial behaviour.

My in-laws have not been pleasant to me. My DH has been reluctant to challenge this because he's aware it will end in his estrangement from them, which, despite his knowledge of their shortcomings, he doesn't want. Any objections therefore had to come from me.They did, predictably weren't appreciated, and contact between us is now limited. DH wants to maintain a relationship with them, as is his right. He can't compel me to do so, and I can't (and wouldn't want to) expect him not to. We are individual human beings who are quite capable of making individual decisions.

That's the way it works. It doesn't diminish our 'loyalty' on either side. I can only control my own behaviour. There is no earthly reason why in a normal, healthy partnership, I should want to control his, and this is a scenario I wouldn't tolerate for an instant were the positions reversed.

OP sounds like the kind of spouse who might say 'WE think', as though two people only had one shared mind between them. Attitudes like this are the reason women have had to fight for basic human liberties like the vote.

They are positively antediluvian.

Of course your wife should back you up, and you should have apologised as you did for a simple mistake. You seem to be stuck with a bunch of mannerless yobs who think nothing of acting like aggressive teens, unfortunately. Well done for keeping your cool through all this and the only thing left to do is decide what access to your grandson you want going forward. Your wife has clearly chosen to pat the baboons in order to remain in their good books. Commiserations, maybe you can steer your grandson slightly away from such a lack of social intelligence. But it sounds as if the cost will be high. You can maybe live with your wife better if she’ll agree in private that they’re completely in the wrong but she knows she’s unable to change them. Best of luck.

I can’t imagine why politely, if incorrectly, asking to start eating at a hot meal is in any way equivalent to texting ‘F off Dhead’.
It boggles me that people seem to think swearing at someone like that is better behaviour than having different customs at Xmas than another family. And that having a child entitles you to abuse the grandfather however you see fit with no consequences from anyone. It’s like you’re in the Middle Ages.

The reaction of the DGC's father was completely OTT and sounds unhinged, but I'm not surprised your DW doesn't want to make more of it.

You have to do what's best for the child frankly, not your hurt feelings.

@OzzyGrandad if this happened to my husband, I would remain polite at meet ups but not overly friendly, so yes, I’d have his back.

Fair enough, you made a mistake, but he has no right to continue swearing at you, where is the respect?!

I hope this resolves for all your sakes xx

You didn't deserve the abuse you recieved. This man sounds either unwell or an aggressive bully. In the circumstances I think its probably wise of your wife not to provoke him further as he sounds volatile and as they say on here 'unhinged'. Where people like this have to be in your life, its often wise to treat them like an unpleasant dog. Keep as much distance as you can, and don't prod them.

she prefers not to get involved therefore supporting the father. Encouraging him to do or say whatever he likes to me with no consequences.

Well that's entirely your reading - that her wanting to stay out it = supporting him and encouraging blah blah. Which is you just adding more victimhood and drama to a scenario that should've been over before the new year started. It's not about 'expecting you to accept it' as though you're about to become some downtrodden victim of domestic abuse. It happened, it's over, if you let it be. There's no reason at all to extrapolate it into this ongoing stand-off where he has to apologise or else you're going to be endlessly abused. You surely know this and it really is all a matter of pride now. Just swallow it and put this behind you for everyone's sakes, especially your wife's.

The fact that 5 months on, you're not only still holding this grudge against him but also expanding it to get pissed off at your wife for (in your head) taking his side and encouraging further (imagined) abuse of you, says a lot and makes you likely less of a poor abused victim in this. I imagine if the MIL is anything like your wife, she probably let you go ahead with the carving to try to keep the peace as you'd be complaining about the cold meat. Which backfired because the son was an arsey twat about it. Both men in this scenario are making problems while the women try to resolve them. And yet you're blaming your wife now. And this is why the world is in the state it is. Try to be a peacemaker instead.

Sorry OP you're getting a real roasting on here. I'm not sure why so many commentators are of the mindset that starting to eat your food before others is fully deserving of the aggressive treatment from your grandson's father.

Yes, it was very rude to not hold off for everyone to start but it wasn't the crime of the century. To be verbally harangued by this man (I'm trying to square his unpleasant outburst with someone wishing to say grace!) was out of all proprtion. This man is clearly not reasonable and you probably knew that already so texting him the next day was going to be a red flag to a bull, so not the best decision perhaps.

It would be nice to be backed up by our partners but clearly this is a challenging situation and your wife is right to stay out of it. She has to deal with this man too and she no doubt feels that being a neutral party is for everyone's benefit (it is). I would drop this unpleasant incident and minimise interactions with this man. BTW your daughter is lucky to have two parents that have stepped in to do the lion's share of raising your grandson.

You're right he shouldn't have spoken to you like that.
BUT, it's time to move on, be a grown up and put it behind you. And this is exactly what your wife is doing. You aren't going to get an apology, are you really going to spend the rest of your days stewing over this? It's just not worth it.

The story is definitely badly written 😂

I'm with you OP. I get that it's polite to wait, but if mother in law said it was ok than it was ok. That guy sounds highly strung and like a nasty piece of work tbh.

However I think that texting him just added fuel to the fire, I wouldn't have done that.

I would be sad if my partner didn't support me, but at the end of the day you can't control her behaviour. Plus it'll make for really awkward visits for her if she has to act falsely to appease you. That's weird. You need to let it go. Don't fall out with your wife over this, it's silly.

I've returned to this out of curiosity. While bringing up your grandchild is laudable it still doesn't excuse your manners in company, you should have waited (because that's what you do ....).

Think about it, if you had it might have avoided this whole sorry shit show. You really need to own your part of it and accept that it's yours to deal with.

He still shouldn't have asked. It's the height of bad manners

Comparing it to a stranger queue jumping is ridiculous 🤣 and the comparison would actually be if someone said it was fine to queue jumping, as regularly happens when a person with one item at the checkout is allowed to go first, then someone unaffected took umbrage. Still pretty much a non issue and wouldn’t warrant a tirade of abuse and name calling.

This is friends and family at a fun, informal dinner! It doesn’t matter a jot if someone starts to eat a minute or two before someone else does. And even if someone in the group does have archaic dinner party etiquette, it’s not ok to abuse them and then tell them to “fuck off dickhead” after they contact you to explain and apologise. Christ alive.

Did I not say there that it wasn’t fine to berate him? Also, it doesn’t seem like an “informal family meal” as by the way OP describes, they are not close and it’s not their “side” of the family, if you will.

Think you’ve had a bit of a hard time on here. What you did is not that big of a deal, and did not warrant being verbally abused. If my husband was friendly to someone who did that to me, I would be put out and hurt. That said, you cannot control her actions.

I’m just curious if your grandson’s father is someone that you want in his life? He was verbally abusive to you. Is this a one off or a pattern of behaviour? He sounds bloody awful.

Of course I want my grandson to have his father in his life. Up until that dinner we had a very friendly relationship, but when someone, anyone abuses you like that, you expect an apology, or find it difficult to remain friendly. At least I do. I also find it difficult that my wife thinks that I should just put up with it and say nothing. I did nothing wrong, I simply tried to get the ball rolling by suggesting we all start before dinner went cold. I suspect that the father was upset that he didn't get to do grace first to impress his religious friends.

Are you going to get over yourself at any point in the future? Or are you going to continue to act like a little boy who is upset because someone said some bad words to him?

how about, be the bigger man, get a grip and treat your wife as though she is a woman with her own thoughts and opinions as opposed to someone you think should defend you ‘to the hilt’?