How do you react to the awful spouses of friends . I’m so turned off marriage lately. Following on …

[twinkltwink]

Would you ever get married again ? I’m horrified by the behaviour you f friends/ family’s spouses lately and feel so turned off the idea.
im divorced, healed, independent, financially and emotionally secure and love my own company.
Id really enjoy a romantic partner too though.. a committed relationship.

However, in the last few months I’ve witnessed horrible behaviours towards some friends/ family by their spouses and I’m turned off .
for example: One called his wife a fucking muppet when she made an observation he didn’t agree with.
One forbade his wife from going to the pub because man who hit on said wife ten years previous was going to be in the pub.
One comes in from work every single evening, eats his dinner in front of tv and falls asleep immediately until he moves up to bed.
several
crotocose their spouses publically when they disagree on a topic or if the other doesn’t parent exactly the way the other agrees with.
Maybe it’s a coincidence but I’m appalled at the disrespect. Yet, they still cook, clean, organise , sleep with these spouses.
The bar must be low in my circle.
These people are generally kind, well educated, highly respected in their work and hobbies.
I don’t get it whatsoever .
Give me some hope please!!!

The op scenario reminds me of the Harry Enfield Mr Cholmley sketch.. women know your place.

Personally I see loads of really irritating spouses around and about. They are sooo boring or miserable or both. Women as they age are much more fun and it’s a shame so many are lumbered with these mood hoovers.

I think it can happen in a circle of friends where you end up in a cycle of "well, he's not as bad as Mary's husband..." and then "thank fuck he's not as much of a dickhead as Betty's bloke" and so on and so forth

It can also be hard to stand up to dickhead behaviour if you don't have back up in terms of being able to talk to your friends and get support.

I delayed leaving my ex for a few months because his low-level picking at my confidence and being a dick seemed nothing because my two best friends at the time had one violent husband and one who'd run up 25k of debt in her name. I was lucky that my Nana was a very blunt lady who pointed out to me that not being as bad as them didn't make him decent

I got divorced a long time ago and it was extremely acrimonious, I'm talking very young children, and being made homeless by Ex as he didn't pay the mortgage. He just walked away without a care in the world. I have a sister that was completely vile to her husband and the children used to tell their dad he was always at work, never at home blah blah. Just repeating what she was telling her friends. I asked the children where they thought the money came from for their house, hobbies (lots of them) clothes etc. They looked at me as if I was mad. My sister had an affair with her husband's friend, she doesn't talk to him, she talks at him. Undermines him, always said she would only stay until the children finished school, she's still there and he is probably still taking the five card trick. She is an absolute disgrace. Not my kind of person at all.

I just used other people's behavior as an example of how not to be in a relationship. I always said I would never get married again, about 10 years after being on my own, I got to a point where I wanted someone. I had my career, bought my own place, I didn't want to get to a point where I'd be on my own for too long I couldn't let someone in. Fast forward 22 years, I have the best husband and our relationship is amazing, maybe because we were both on the receiving and of a shite relationship the first time round. I think this has made us better at it now.

Don't give up hope, reverse psychology is a powerful tool. Use other people's negative ways to empower yourself.

There aren't all that many worthwhile men. Women have generally been socialised to settle, but they're getting wise to this now and I think that's a big part of the reason why the birth rate is dropping. Hopefully men as a group are coming to realise that being uninvolved and mediocre won't cut it if they actually do want a family. South Korea offers a great example of women saying no to male mediocrity.

I think this is a thing. Men are just so dull as they age, yet women become more interesting.

I do have friends with nice partners,
but there’s definitely a sizeable amount who are awful
and rude.

id also say I know some who are charming and great company,
but I know from their partners that they’ve behaved appallingly (and I don’t mean affairs) so it’s perfectly plausible that all these people
saying everyone in their social circle is lovely aren’t getting the full picture

I’d be worried about why your bar, and the bar of so many of your circle, are/were so low! I’m very fond of many of my friends’ spouses, and even when I’m not, it’s a matter of different social styles, political disagreements, being very different people etc, not because they mistreat my friends. And not just my female friends’ husbands, but also male friends’ partners/wives.

I'd say my friends husbands are nice enough guys...but not great partners. for more than 75% of them when the women are being honest I hear the stories of how effing useless they are, most common issues being:
-Not taking on sufficient equal share of household or child related work
-Too much drinking
-Relying on wife for social organising/friendship stuff
-Questionable parenting decisions

• being insensitive

I think of some of my friend's spouses are great but a couple are awful to the point I've pretty much stopped seeing the friends and if we do it will always be when he's not there.

Completely understand. I've got the ick for my DH at this point but when I see my friend's husbands, they are even worse. From my experience, men benefit much more from marriage than women.

Never again if it comes to that.

I don’t think the OP’s bar is low at all. She left the marriage! She isn’t intending to date these people she is describing.

I think the issue may be more about the fact your social circle are keeping up appearances and not confiding in you about their marital problems

it can often be the loveliest partners who turn out to be rotters

Would also add many people stay together because they don’t want to find themselves having to sell their home and face financial uncertainty.

It’s not because they have a low bar for how they should be treated in a relationship

She was married to a man she describes as a ‘sex pest’ and ‘coercive’ for long enough to have two children with him. I’m by no means pointing the finger at someone who survived an abusive marriage, but I imagine the OP herself would say her bar was low, as are her friends’. And no, my friends aren’t concealing sordid marital secrets, any more than I am. It’s very telling that you think they must be. Some people marry decent human beings and live in broadly happy, egalitarian relationships.

You sound like an awesome friend!!!

We don’t really know anything about OPs situation, but women don’t meet a coercive sex pest and think ‘he’s attractive’. These men can often be great at the start, but slowly show their true colours.

Look at the Gisele Pelicot case- he was by all accounts a devoted husband. (It is also a good case study in the number of men in a small village who would rape an unconscious stranger)

Abuse is complex and your assumptions reveal a victim blaming and misogynistic mindset.

I get really annoyed at posts like yours when the knee jerk response is to judge someone for having poor standards. Why not save your judgement for these husbands who behave horribly towards their wives?

I get it. You have a lovely DH. I also do, but I had to kiss a lot of frogs. I know I’m very lucky and he’s a gem.

Your attitude is a very normal psychological response- people try to look for ‘fault’ in a victim to reassure themselves that it can’t happen to them. But if you consider yourself a feminist, you really need to questions your reaction.

your husband can still be a nice person, you can still have a good relationship, but men in general can still treat their partner’s badly.

your post even shows the double standards that allow men to get away with being pricks. You are so focused on slagging off the OP and her friends to make you and your friends look superior ( of course you all have excellent judgement 🙄)

@SelinaPlace and it doesn’t need to be ‘sordid marital secrets’ - it can be the fact he doesn’t do household chores without being asked. It’s small, but I’ve tests can cause huge resentment that can make people miserable

My friends husbands and my husband are all kind and caring men with good relationships with their kids and spouses. I hear about their bad bits and they aren’t so bad as to put me off men. As with women there are good ones and bad ones.

This is a good thread. Sooo I'm 60. Never been married for the reason OP states. Most men are selfish. But I find the more time goes on the more selfish people are not just men. Im talking generally here. So ive had 3 long term relationships. Each slid into them being dicks of various degrees.

I wasn't prepared to settle for the crap they wanted me to accept. Lying about where they were when I was away on conferences. I found out when I saw alleged friends he was supposed to be with and they knew nothing about it. Another got a parking ticket in Liverpool when we lived in York and he was supposed to be at work in York. Another said after 12 years he liked his own space didn't want to share it and certainly didn't want any intimacy. And rests just the bare bones.
So for me men .... nahhhh maybe my bar is high now. But I really can't be arsed with the hassle.

If DH (a good man, we rub along well) died I’d not marry or live with another man again. Too many walking red flags out there. I know so many great women living with men who are either (or a mix of) verbally abusive, rude, controlling, lazy, selfish. I’ve learned to not say anything unless the woman volunteers information. A lot of people are in denial about their partners and you generally won’t be thanked for pointing out concerns. There is still societal judgement of women being single, although I think attitudes are slowly changing.

I’ve been single for 12 years and I’m a single parent with 2 at home. I’ve never been married and from hearing some of the things that my friends are going through with their partners I’m hesitant to get into anything with a man again. I don’t take kindly to being spoken to badly so I’m baffled how a woman can stay with someone who calls her names or betrays her trust. The things I hear from them makes me feel so mad that my friends are putting up with it. I’d say out of my 7 closest friends only one has a man who is genuinely a nice partner

Also a colleague at work said her husband has NEVER helped her around the house. Even after her 3 caesareans and her having a hand operation, he still insisted she cook traditional food. I was so mad listening to this

when I read this my reaction is that my husband is a treasure However the behaviour you describe is that which I wouldn't put up with for a nanosecond and he knows it.

my stance on marriage for what it is worth.
never be totally financially dependent on anyone
never be told what you can wear, where you can go, what you can say say by anyone.
play your part in the things you are good at and expect the other partner to do the same.
expect and receive gratitude for the part you play and give it back
retain a sense of humour and remember no-one is perfect and that includes you. So a bit of tolerance comes in handy

given the unrealistic expectations that some people demonstrate here , and their complete lack of humour and compassion for what their partner can also be going through I am often surprised that they are still married at all.

ultimately you are right better off alone than tied to someone that you really cannot stand

I think everything changes when you have kids so they probably weren’t like this beforehand. Some women change when they have kids & some men don’t. I do think that in general men are much more entitled & women are much more accepting of shitty behaviour. I don’t speak for myself as my husband does more than I do around the house, childcare & work but I see it a lot with friends.

🙄 none of what she’s described is abuse bar maybe the one who banned her from going to the pub. MNers loves to throw that word around. It’s irresponsible and devalues the experiences of victims who have actually been abused.

In my uni circle (20+ years ago) I love all the spouses as friends now, they are good husbands and wives. I'm the divorced one, and chose badly. Some of my work colleagues have wonderful husbands, I don't know the other ones.

I'm mid 40s, I think the ones with bad spouses already left them, I can't think of anyone I'm close to with a horrible partner!