Men who put their partner down in front of others

[Somethingthecatdraggedin7]

I have witnessed this happen to friends and acquaintances so often, nasty remarks barely disguised as humour and I would appreciate suggestions on what if anything to say.
If I say nothing it feels like I am condoning the “joke”.
Recent examples being around a friend's weight and her husband laughingly said “spot the beached whale” when we were looking at their holiday photos.
Another who dismissed his wife’s decorating skills as “toddler level” when I was seeing their new house when in fact she had done a great job of painting the walls.
The women laugh it off in an embarrassed way and I feel awful for them having a man who behaves like this.
I want to show that this is not acceptable and shame the arsehole blokes because all the time it is tolerated they think it is ok.
Obviously at heart this is an issue for the women to address within their relationship but from my own circle it seems they don’t (and not my place to judge them for this at all) because nothing changes.
At the very least I don’t want to be made part of the abuse.

You'll only be creating trouble for them.

If you call him out, the man will try to distance them from you.

He will also very likely argue with her/take it out on her in private.

You'll just be creating another rod for her back.

Maybe speak privately and tactfully with her.

But as I said, they know. The women know. You don't think they are capable of observing that other men of their acquaintance aren't regularly insulting their wives and partners to their face in company?? There is no way they only know men who viciously insult their partners in company!
They just have their priorities, and at this time, being treated respectfully is lower priority than other priorities for them.

No, it needs to be called out unless you suspect she’s at risk.

I once didn’t. I will not make that mistake again. I thought they were generally happy and that my old school friend wouldn’t appreciate it. Turns out he was a cheating bastard and she wished we’d supported her.

My ex used to do this all the time. It totally ground me down. The one that’s always stuck in my memory is having friends over - the lady having a beautiful figure and he knew I was struggling at 3 months after our first baby and was due back to work in an industry that judged weight a lot, as I went upstairs he said ‘oh there she goes in her size 16 jeans’. 21 years that comment has stayed with me but he did it constantly it was awful

Men who do the put downs are engaged in a power game to humiliate their partner

Definitely true in one way.

In another, I have observed men in long marriages/LTRs say derogatory things about weight ....and it is obvious that they are resentful that their partner is now a size they don't think is ideal (probably wasn't that size when they got together) and it's like they can't (won't) filter or control the verbal outbursts related to their resentment.

They won't end the marriage/ltr for various reasons but they are resentful/unhappy/bitter that they are now "stuck with" this woman who's bigger than they prefer.

Obviously they are both shallow, and choose not to have any discretion.

Part of the reason they choose not to have any discretion is that they know there will no real consequences to not doing so.

I also think they misguidedly and idiotically think that such comments will spur the woman to lose weight.

@Mmhmmni believe you are right. There is a big theme on this thread of basically victim blaming - suggesting that women are the problem and they are putting up with abuse because they are desperate to be in a relationship. I think this is a big misunderstanding. People stay in abusive relationships for many reasons. Some are feeling trapped, with no resources, no recourse, or fearing even more terrible reprisal for them or their kids if they leave. They know perfectly well they wish they weren’t in it - they know they would be better off out and would much prefer to be alone. There are also fears that while they can protect their kids and be the buffer while staying together, they will have less ability to protect their kids if the abuser can get access after separation.

In most cases, the victim is worn down psychologically, just like a hostage, until they lose track of what is right or wrong, or what is true, and lack the strength to fight back. Abusers don’t begin by acting that way, and they don’t always act that way, which causes massive confusion. If the problem were simply that women were desperate to be in relationships, then the abuser could act awfully from the beginning and women would still stay. Instead they build gradually so they erode someone’s certainty, self esteem and sense of agency.

I also think there is a big misunderstanding that abused women are weak. Firstly, they are incredibly strong for simply enduring, often while doing their best to shield others from the same abuse, and turning up to work and doing their job as if nothing is wrong, and some even more by managing to break free. Second, the abuser reverses victim and perpetrator. Women often become convinced that the abuser is suffering, mentally ill, has trauma etc, so can’t help it- and they are being the strong one - enduring, empathetic, willing to suffer and endure because they believe in the goodness of the abuser and believe the abuser would kill themselves/ not cope if they weren’t there. This is not because women have been socialised into being desperate for a relationship. It’s because we are socialised into caring for others, being forgiving, alosing people to trample on our boundaries, and putting our own needs last.

To dismiss abused women as simply desperate for a relationship is shocking.

A guy I work with did this (his partner works there also) and I gave his partner a skeptical look and said to her something like ‘what’s he going on about like that for?’ to acknowledge the dick he was being and he was really embarrassed.

I think he was trying to be clever and it massively backfired.

Just to add that the irony is that they are often far from perfect adonises themselves.

They just have an arrogant, shallow male entitlement re. their partners that females seem way less likely to have.

I’d be wondering why so many of your friends and acquaintances have chosen such particularly awful partners. I don’t think I’ve ever heard any of my female friends’ partners ever make a derogatory remark about them in front of me, and I have a lot of friends scattered around different countries. If DH said anything of the kind, I’m pretty sure they’d savage him.

If you’re worried about challenging, or that it may have repercussions for them, I’d just ask, neutrally, ‘What did you say?’ as though you didn’t hear. Often having to repeat the remark will embarrass the insulter.

There is a big theme on this thread of basically victim blaming

It is not victim blaming to acknowledge that the values and priorities women are conditioned to have, underpins why coercive and abusive men are successful with them!

What a complete arsehole

I agree with you I wouldn't confront the man directly it won't go well, maybe say she looks nice or a throwaway light comment but I don't think being direct with an abusive man is helpful
and , speak to her alone.

Abusers don’t begin by acting that way, and they don’t always act that way, which causes massive confusion

Definitely agree with the second point, but with the first ...in my experience abusers can't stop the mask from slipping for more than a few months ...... By which point no-one sane should have entered into any irreversible commitment with them.

It's not about being 'sane'. Often victims are chosen because of their vulnerability. That might be youth, naivety, low self esteem, mental health issues, financial vulnerability, precarity, etc.

We were recently socialising with another couple, who are friends. The wife started telling us about the horrendous journey she'd had back from her holidays with her DC. The DH said 'no, they don't want to hear about that' in a really rude, not jokey way.

Very awkward silence, so I replied, I want to hear about it.

Since then i've told my DH I don't like him and my DH admitted he's made other negative remarks to him about his wife.

The thing is these kind of men won't listen to a women. This is where men need to be pulling up other men. It needs to be unacceptable and shameful amongst men to talk like this about partners not regarded as banter.

My husband will pull up any men he sees doing this. Along the lines of are you ok? That's really disrespectful and not funny, why are you in a relationship with this person if you feel xyz about them? It's always met with oh I don't mean it, it's just a joke.

What I think is the safest thing to do is to build that women up. Make them know they have support someone to ring at 3am or a place to stay. You have their back and they don't have to put up with that treatment. When that's become your normal it's hard to see anymore. Society doesn't really paint a great picture of men in general. It takes something like 8 attempts to leave an abusive partner. It's not easy.

We are conditioned by society as women to give second (3rd 4th 5th) chances. We are told men mean well they just get it wrong sometimes. They don't have the skills we have.....
This starts at day one when we are born. If thats all the relationships you saw growing up Ofcourse women will find it hard to leave.

We really need men to step up and speak out to eachother.

I've noticed my mother's generation particularly suffered from men doing this. What they tended to do, was not seem to hear the comment, but to make a positive comment directly negating whatever the putdown from the insecure little arsehole was.

God I hate people that do this, men or woman. It's just so fucking nasty.

No way would I be able to hold my tongue if I heard comments like that! I would tear strips off them.

Beach whale comment - ‘whereas you look like Brad Pitt when you’re naked? No? I didn’t fucking think so!’

Paint job comment - ‘well she’s done a better job than you, you lazy bastard!’

I would shrivel up if it was directed at me, but another woman I could, and have, stood up for them without hesitating.

Idiots like this say stupid shit in public because everyone will laugh/smile/get awkward; but no-one will call them on it.

If one person said - just once- 'well, you're a dick ', they'd think twice about doing it again.
This dickishness will continue until it's challenged.

I think we need to distinguish between abuse and what is regarded as 'normal' behaviour. (Inverted commas to distinguish of course, that it's not normal, it's sexist, nasty and unacceptable.)

Absolutely, abuse is complex and designed to entrap the sufferer. It's also a slow burn system, which gradually ramps up until the woman is isolated, totally stuck, with children, no friends or contact with family, financially disempowered.

But there are many, many of us, I'd say probably, most of us, have at one point or other in our lives had a relationship with a man like this. Not abusive relationships, but with nasty men, with some need or desire to 'keep us down'. I'm not a victim of abuse. But I definitely tolerated nasty comments and unacceptable behaviour. Fcuk only knows why. I was always the one to leave my relationships though. And then they were devastated, seemingly having no inkling that they were the ones that had really ended it, through their behaviour.

I've had 2 relationships like this. And like a pp on here, I will never have another relationship. I'm ground down by men and can't be bothered with their shit.

I have this week been heartened to read threads on MN about women at the beginning of relationships with men like this, who have walked away after the controlling behaviour started. I really hope (I'm probably wrong) that if enough women called men out on this behaviour while they are young, that they'd realise they had to change.

The words "ouch, how unkind" in a clear voice with a surprised face is very effective.

My superior self agrees with this. But I would be very tempted to ridicule the charming princes on the spot...

No, but that’s often not the tone. The tone is “I would never put up with this shit… what is it about these women?…. They must be so desperate…etc…”. That isn’t saying ‘we are all subject to powers that push us this way, it’s saying ‘I’m better and therefore you are responsible for being worse”. Ie blaming the women.

Thank you for this thread. I’m finding it cathartic, having found myself in a relationship with a man who is like this. I agree, it’s about conditioning. He’s from a culture (think a bit like Asian) where women are considered inferior, and was raised by very old fashioned parents. I have pulled him up in public when he’s done this, I even left him once in public after shaming him over it. It is very subtle but also builds up to speaking negatively behind my back (think eye rolls, “I have to put up with you” style comments). Luckily, I am a strong person and sure of myself, with an exceptional career & very well thought of by his friends. Indeed, that’s the problem, he’s massively insecure & can’t match my achievements/money/looks/whatever.

Ive managed to turn it so it’s his problem & not mine. Even his mother tells me that I’m doing a great job in standing up to it. She takes some of the responsibility but fuck, that society & town he’s in are warped. I am not a victim of abuse but I am subjected to the results of an abusive society.

My ex husband did a form of it, too, in that I became invisible after I married him. There was no acknowledgement of my career, the fact I paid half the mortgage, nanny, cars, holidays.

Men are intimidated. People have told me all my life that they are intimidated by me and I am sure that’s why my partner does it. My ex husband now has the grace to tell me he’s proud of my achievements but fuck it, why can’t they be supportive, loving, and kind, instead of scared of success? 😩

Oh and one thing is that I’ve tried to make my DCs aware - especially my DS, so he doesn’t treat women this way. Luckily they’ve been amazing at noticing things and speaking highly of me. Men like thus want reactions rather than responses, so another tactic is to laugh at their inane remarks when they make them in front of their friends. I’ve told my partner to treat me like a man & like an equal, just as he would treat his best mate (male). That did seem to help him but I’m not here to help him, he has to help himself.

It sounds like you're handling it brilliantly, Pomander.

The only time I've ever experienced public put downs was in the context of abusive relationships.

I'm not sure I've ever known it to happen in a healthy relationship.

Contempt is a red flag, imo. Public shaming, likewise. It's a power play.