55 and STILL don’t know whether to stay or leave

[MiddleAgedMary]

DH and I been together for 30+ years with two adult kids, one with ongoing additional needs.
I get on with him really well in many ways, we enjoy spending time together, have a shared sense of humour and he can be supportive and emotionally intuitive and expressive.
However we have some long-standing dysfunctions, not easy to summarise but in a nutshell for me is that if he’s unhappy with me then he withdraws for days or weeks at a time. I know this sounds at odds with what I’ve said about him just before and it does feel like a massive contradiction. He’s a formidable person in many ways but he is also pretty vulnerable and a lot of this comes from hurt.

He provides a listening ear to his female friends and is really perceptive, but refuses to go to couples therapy, saying we can work it out ourselves. But we don’t seem able to. I’ve been seeing a therapist myself and she wonders whether he is on the asd spectrum and my friends have said similar. He certainly doesn’t meet the classic or stereotypical descriptions. My DD is both autistic and ADHD.

I suffer hugely with anxiety and lost identity, although just emerging from the latter now. I’d miss him hugely if I left but I dream of being free to be my own person.

What does being free to be your own person look like? Is it something you can only be if you’re single or can you build a new life within your marriage?

Building a network of my own friends and outside activities over recent years had been amazing but it’s given me insight into how bizarre and damaging this aspect of his behaviour is and it continues to affect me significantly. He says he wants me to be an autonomous person but then doesn’t like it if I decide to do something spontaneous or don’t involve him in almost any level of decision making. He expects me to behave in the way that he would towards me but whilst I appreciate acting with mutual respect, I don’t want to involve him in every minutiae of my life. And yes, I’ve said this, sensitively many times over the years.

It’s controlling but I wouldn’t describe it as abusive as I think it comes from fear and childhood trauma

Are you happy most of the time?
Life’s too short not to be

Yes and no! Lots of good times but always aware that it could change at any moment

Could you do a trial separation for a few months ? You could get a taste of life apart and see how you feel.

Yes that’s something I’ve contemplated but there’s complications that I can’t describe here. It’s not impossible I guess!

What would life be like if he didn't emotionally abuse you by withdrawing for days or weeks at a time?

It sounds like he is using withdrawal of interaction as a means of controlling you. And he’s refusing to try and fix himself. Both things would inspire me to leave. 55 is young - dont waste the next thirty years with someone so limiting.

Amazing!! Although I hesitate to use the A-word. Perhaps I need to embrace it!

How does he stop you being your own person? Are you sure this isn’t a case of ‘is the grass greener”

It sounds like you’re frustrated but no one is perfect, after such a long time together everyone has something that grates the relationship, but is that not normal, as there is no such thing as a perfect relationship that’s spans decades and decades with no problems.

How would splitting up benefit you far greater than the benefits you have now….and are they worth loosing?

I’m not sure it’s a conscious means of control but control is certainly the outcome. And yes it’s certainly a hugely limiting aspect of our relationship but it’s not the whole of it by any means.
Agree 55 is still young and there’s so much ahead of me - I hope!

I imagine he doesn’t want to go to couples counselling because he will be made aware of how unfair his “ silences” are….. he says “ we can sort it ourselves” but he’s not changed how he reacts has he ? Good luck with whatever lies ahead x

He provides a listening ear to his female friends

But not his wife.

Not his male friends either, just his female friends?

I’ve spent years pondering this question and am very aware the grass may not be greener. Nor do I expect a relationship to be perfect by any means; compromise is expected.
Its hard to define but it’s the ability to feel free to make my own decisions at the micro level (eg I can use more than two pieces of toilet paper 😂), buy clothes without guilt (he has 5 grey tops that he’s worn for years, believes we should only buy what we need even though we are well off); to be spontaneous at a basic level (not talking about booking a holiday or anything like that); to support my DD in the way that I feel is appropriate without criticism etc etc.

I eventually persuaded him to go and he lasted two sessions. Was outraged and upset that I brought something to the session that I hadn’t previously told him about (that I enjoy spending time away on my own). Yes that’s the point of couples therapy, a safe space and he knows that!! But can’t apply it to himself 😩

So he doesn’t like you doing things unilaterally without involving him, and yet it’s ok for him to withdraw for days or weeks at a time if he is unhappy with you? Does he see the contradiction in that?

Maybe you should start by asking if he would be willing to be assessed for ASD as there is a high inheritability factor and that needs to be ruled out before you make a final decision perhaps?

After thirty years though it is highly unlikely he is going to change.

Had always had mostly female friends! But does similar for male friends who want to talk.
Take your point!

He completed the ASQ50 at my request a couple of years ago and scored really low ie the opposite end of the scoring scale to someone who is possibly on the spectrum. Problem is these sorts of screening questionnaires are crude. I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t agree to a diagnostic assessment. It’s not even on his radar that it’s a possibility.

I know you're shying away from the word abuse, but the intention behind his behaviour or the place it comes from is irrelevant - the effect on you is the same as if it was malice or deliberate, as if it isn't.

Abusive behaviours are abusive behaviours, intention isn't magic.

And I do think the fact he is able to be emotionally intelligent with female friends he's trying to impress shows that at some level he's choosing to devalue and treat you worse.

Interesting thank you, I think I’ll read up on this, I definitely need to reflect on this.

As for his efforts with friends, female or otherwise, I think it’s because he’s not emotionally invested in them so he’s able to see their situation ‘objectively’.

Do you modify your behaviour so that you don't trigger his withdrawal? Have you considered whether he / his behaviour towards you is the cause of your anxiety and loss of identity?

Many abusers have had traumatising childhoods. Responsibility for their lives needs to be owned by them, not by (over caring / parentifying) partners who make allowances for them into their 50s and beyond.
Don’t make yourself into a doormat.
If he is abusive you don’t need to take / absorb it as your right.

What a lot of intuitive sensitive well thought out replies you have received OP. Like you I’v been married for a long time, much longer than you, but unlike you I’ve had as much freedom in our marriage as I’ve wanted and so has my husband. I suppose it’s something I take for granted until, I read a post like yours.

Yes, your husband’s silences could be taken as a control mechanism, let’s face it, that and sulking are a very unpleasant effective way of curbing or manipulating a partners behaviour.

I’m no therapist, but I tentatively wonder, if your husband’s silences (which must make things very miserable and isolating from your perspective) could maybe be a self protection strategy? He withdraws, to protect himself? I understand if this sounds absolutely doolally!! But he withdraws verbally, wraps himself up to protect himself? Not against you, but to look after himself? I imagine bravery is an ingredient needed to take part in Counselling, I wonder if your husband isn’t emotionally brave. Please, this isn’t a criticism, but for whatever reason he is simply unable to be open, cannot speak his inner most thoughts, which is what’s needed for therapy. Some people find that a step too far. I imagine it is quite threatening for some, it exposes vulnerabilities, assumed or real. For your sake I wish he could.

A poster upthread mentioned ‘grass being greener elsewhere’. Only you can decide how you proceed. I’m afraid I haven’t been a lot of help, but I wish you well.

Yes to both of those questions.

Modifying my behaviour - not always, when kids were at home, massive arguments and stand offs about how we managed DD but it meant my needs were suppressed just trying to keep things going.
Since kids have left, I’ve pushed back more or just acted on my personal needs and this has triggered a LOT of anger, upset and withdrawal. We had a significant series of conversations a few weeks ago and I thought we’d turned a corner but guess what, usual service has resumed! 🙄

I'm going to gently suggest that you currently cannot see the wood for the trees.

What you are describing sounds like an awful way to live. Your husband has it all going his way.

You might consider taking yourself away for a 2 week (minimum) holiday, just for you, to take some time out and gather some perspective. Perhaps a lovely retreat somewhere tropical where you can be pampered and taken care of. Maybe some counselling sessions while you are there. Or visiting somewhere you particularly want to go to. Have no contact at all with your husband during this time.

There are some wonderful places you can go to.