I scared a guy by asking what he wants/needs in a relationship

[fedupwiththeguy]

I started a new hobby about 2 years ago. They meet weekly but I have been attending sporadically (maybe once a month with gaps in between), and there was a couple of guys who would look for me to chat.

Last summer, one of them asked me if I was single, and then intensified contact by the end of 2024 (asking me to come to the meetup, inviting me to different events related to the hobby, asking me to go for drinks after the meetup).

I decided to go for drinks and then the contact increased to messaging a couple of times a week, and we went to a day event out of town together. He asked me for dinner on Valentine's Day and we kissed at the end of the night. Since then, he has texted or called almost every day, came around to fix something that broke in my yard and offered help with practical things (handy work or anything that needs a car since I don't have one).

When he came round, he tried to kiss me again, but I told him that we needed to have a chat first. I am not interested in hookups or casual dating so I wanted to know more about him to assess our compatibility. We have had conversations about our hobby and light stuff but nothing deep. We made plans for dinner yesterday and asked him about what he wants from a relationship and when and how long was his last relationship.

By the end of the night he asked me to go his place but I declined and told him we were not compatible since he wants kids and I don't. He looked really surprised and had not understood that I was asking these questions to evaluate compatibility. Today he told he felt uncomfortable, sounded like an interrogation and he was worried I would use what he said against him. I had no clue that's how he was feeling yesterday. I asked open ended questions, like above and didn't press for anything. He also spoke about a confrontation (I think he may refer when I said we are not compatible. He tried to backpedal saying that he didn't say he wanted kids with me to which I responded "exactly. You want kids and that should not depend on the person you are dating. That's not something you can compromise on).

He also said he realized yesterday that he is not ready to be vulnerable.

I am very confused. I felt we had a good conversation and night, regardless of not been compatible. I enjoy the time with him but I am indifferent romantically. I have seen good qualities in him during the time that we have spent together that made me consider the possibility, his kindness helping me with the yard made me think he was really interested in me. I didn't want to string him along so I decided to gather the info I needed to see if we are compatible to either open or close that door. Talking about our hobby is not enough for me to decide potential/compatibility.

Despite all of the above he called and asked me to go on a walk today, after spending 10h together yesterday and sleeping little. He told me all this. We talked a little but we were both tired and preferred lighter chat.

When he dropped me off he asked me if I had checked my calendar for the weekend out of town event for our hobby, and he wanted to make plans to travel and stay in an airbnb together.

But here I am confused. My reading of last night didn't catch any of his discomfort, the confrontation or interrogation he felt. He also seemed overwhelmed by me considering this when the only reason is that I thought he was very interested. I am a demo sexual, so I have not developed that sexual attraction to him and would not be thinking of him if he had not show interest in me first. So his emotional unavailability also comes as surprising to me.

We are from different cultures and both not British so wondering if that could also be playing a role. One of the things I realized yesterday is that we have different approaches to relationships. For him, sex is the first part of assessing that compatibility and for me values, goals, needs and wants comes before I decide to have sex. So that could also be contributing to the curveball we just had this weekend.

For anyone who read my previous thread, this is the guy #2 who I called Tom. And I know age was important in that thread, so he is 35. Both divorced 8 years, both 6 years marriage, both with kids, so some experience there.

I think it's great you sussed out his wants/intentions early and let him know you weren't compatible - more people should do this!

Op you made the right call so stop second guessing yourself. You aren't compatible.

Also it's creepy that he isn't taking no for an answer.

He's trying to guilt you and make you feel like you were mean to ask him questions to base compatiblilty on.

At best, he's looking for a fuck buddy and you've said no to that. At worst, he's a head fucking prick who thinks women don't have the right to say no to incompatible partnership.

Stop hanging out with him. Stop. No means no. You don't have to justify it any further.

You sound like you know exactly what you want out of a relationship and want to check your compatible so not to waste time. He sounds at best unsure or more open to what he wants - at worst willing to say what he thinks you want to hear in the short term. You don't fancy him - he is probably feeling a bit rejected and wishes he hadn't said as much but his answers weren't the right ones for you. However, even if he had said he didnt want children like you - you still don't fancy him.

I'm going to generalise massively generalise here, but I think men and women are looking for fundamentally different things in the early stages of dating, and that's what's causing the miscommunications and misunderstandings here.

Women take on the burden of risk when it comes to a new relationship. Because they have to worry about their safety more, but also because if they want kids, every failed relationship is time wasted, time they could have spent looking for the right person.

So women teach themselves to eye up every single new potential partner as the one. Is this the person who I can spend the rest of my life with, who isn't abusive, who aligns with my values, who wants to go through life stages at the same pace as me.

Men, when we meet a new potential partner aren't looking for any of that. We're not (as) worried about our safety, and we don't have the same time pressures fertility wise. So we're not looking for a long term partner. We're looking for someone who's company we enjoy to spend time with doing fun activities and also have sex. We're not looking for a long term relationship, the realisation that we want one doesn't usually hit us until we're already in it.

So you're trying to pin down whether this man is someone you can spend the rest of your life with, while he's feeling interrogated because he doesn't understand why any of these questions matter when you've only had once kiss.

You're wondering why he's still pursuing you when kids are off the table, while he doesn't get why it would possibly matter. Him wanting more kids is just a hypothetical, if they're not a possibility then because he's with you, then that's no different to them not being a possibility now because he's not with anyone.

Sorry I am going to keep challenging a bit. I'm not sure why OP, you are seeing a desire to have children as a 'value' and therefore criticising him for being willing to 'change his values' and assume it's something he can't compromise on.

Whether to have children or not is not some kind of ethical value, it's just a life priority or preference. And especially when somebody already has a child, and is older, it can quite legitimately be something they are flexible about. I don't see any problem with him feeling flexible about this.

I also feel we are giving him a bit of a hard time about his feeling interrogated and mentioning conflict. OP, you strike me as a very objective and methodical thinker, who yourself has said you didn't pick up on what he is feeling.... is it possible your style of asking was a bit abrupt or abstract? It sounds like during the conversation, he went with it, but after, when he realized you were essentially going through a checklist to discount him, he understandably felt both interrogated and rejected out of hand?

Anyway.... I will bow out now. I'm sure you will find what is right for you and wish you the best of luck!

Excellent post

As a 40+ year old who's been strung along by many a man saying he wants kids and then changing his tune, my guess would be he isn't actually bothered about having kids he just said what he thought would be the answer you (most women) would want to hear. He now realises he gave you the wrong answer but in reality he didn't give you a true answer- he was just saying what he thought would get him in your knickers

This post needs to be pinned at the top of the mumsnet relationship board

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

Would bet money he doesn't give a shit about kids. But he was willing to lie about it and string you along without giving it any thought. So many losers ruining womens chance at motherhood. Also they patronise us by assuming we all want kids too.

I'm not sure I'm really following too well..

I am not interested in hookups or casual dating so I wanted to know more about him to assess our compatibility. We have had conversations about our hobby and light stuff but nothing deep.

Surely if messaging and being friends outside of the hobby since late 2024 then that is the time when you should have been having the conversations to find out if you are compatible or not? Why have you been talking just light stuff and nothing deep in the time that you have been getting closer?

It seems odd to me to basically form a relationship and allow it to continue to kissing/closeness/messaging/talking everyday for a month then deciding to have a blunt bare all conversation where you suddenly declare that you aren't compatible after all.

You sound very cold about this man and based on this it would seem better to me for you not to pursue this.

If he can't be vulnerable, he can't have relationships of any depth. He would only end up hurting you.

I get what you’re saying about the different approaches, but I think the underlying message often ends up being that women should adapt to how men date rather than men meeting women halfway. If women want (or don’t want) commitment, marriage, and kids, it makes sense to be intentional from the start rather than just hoping a guy eventually realises he wants the same. There are men who are clear on what they want and date with that mindset from the beginning, so why should women waste time on those who don’t?

I don't think I'm advocating that women adapt to a male style of dating. I don't think there is any real possibility of adapting or meeting half way to be honest.

Men and women are always going to have different pressures informing what they're looking for. As such its an asymmetrical transaction, and both parties will obfuscate a bit as a result.

Women want to know whether the man wants kids, but know that asking directly will scare them off. So will ask indirectly "Do you have any nieces and nephews?", "What's your relationship like with them?", "Do you see kids in your future"?, rather than just blurting out "I want to have kids in the next 7 years, is that the case for you too?"

Men, on the other hand, know that the "correct" response is "Yes, of course I want to have kids one day", or "No, I don't want kids". The actual answer is "Maybe, one day, with the right woman. To be honest, I've not thought about it too much yet, I'm not at that stage of my life yet", but they know that that doesn't get the right reaction. That its considered wishy washy and is unlikely to get them further dates.

In both cases, the man and the woman both understand the rules of the game, but they don't understand the reason for the rules.

In OPs case, she didn't follow the rules, and now the mans feeling interrogated. He, on the other hand did follow the rules and now is wondering why OP didn't understand that "I want kids" meant "Yeah, I'm open to kids, but its not a dealbreaker if you didn't want them".

As I said, I don't think there ever can be any true meeting in the middle, when what the two parties are looking for is so fundamentally different. But for both men and women, understanding that that difference exists, and the reasons behind it can help explain the difference is behaviour.

I

I suspect that my autistic failure to understand the rules and principled refusal to play the mind games is part of why I am single. The other reason is because I am never sharing my home ever.

Men are completely failing to realised here that women who do want kids have a limited timeframe in which to have them and can't wait around whilst men make their minds up. The Relationships board have a phrase for men who dilly-dally: "he's running down your clock".

If you were interviewing candidates for a job, you wouldn't talk in code, ask indirect questions, or wait and hope. You'd start up by asking for the deal-breakers on the application form, "do you have the right to work in the UK?" and "describe how you meet the essential criteria for the job" being popular questions.

The Female Dating Strategy website recommends that women treat dating like a hiring manager treats job interviews. I think they have a point, certainly for women who want kids. You are trying to find a co-parent and partner and romance has very little to do with that.

You are trying to find a co-parent and partner and romance has very little to do with that.

I'd go so far as to argue that "romance" and all the associated gubbins about finding "the one" is a patriarchal tool of Western society to make women put up with indecisive men who aren't true partners and fail to co-parent. Many other cultures don't have a concept of romantic love.

I took a couple of days to take everything in and think about all your comments and my conversations with him.

He asked to for a conversation in person and we met. He clarified that he was not ready for deep conversations last week but he was now. He wanted to talk about kids - I said I am firm. He said it was not a problem.

We talked about our different approaches to a relationship and you were right, we see sex and emotional connection in a different order, but we could understand each other's point of view.

It was a good conversation but I still think we are incompatible and I said we will have to cut back contact and keep meeting as friends as we had done so far. He said he wanted more contact and a relationship and the things I see as incompatibilities can be discussed.

He doesn't sound like he's respecting your choice op.

So now he's basically ignoring 'no'.

Don't even try to stay friends with this person op. Pull away entirely. He is not your pal. He's someone who wants to get into your pants.

I don't think there is any kind of problem here, and I would stop worrying about it.

The man wants to date you. Because of the kissing and all the time spent together/communicating he assumed you felt the same.

You don't.

You don't need to keep seeing him and having in depth discussions with him about it and worrying what he thinks.

It's a shame for him, and he hasn't done anything wrong, but not have you.

Just leave it now. If you keep meeting as friends he will keep hoping for a relationship, and he needs to move on.

This

OP,

1. You are single/divorced with children
2. He is also single/divorced with a child

So it doesn't really matter to anyone if he had children or not, that's irrelevant.

It seems like you're trying to use the children/discussions as an excuse to keep things platonic?

It sounds like you're not that attracted him, but you've enjoyed the closeness/support/loyalty as a friend.

He's built a friendship hoping for dating.

Unfortunately it can be quite lonely as a solo woman, and true close friends are hard to find!

Often the best "friends" you get as a single/divorced woman are guys who want to date you. We're not wanted socially otherwise! 😆😉

But unfortunately these do fizzle out if they don't get something more.

A single 35 year old guy will prioritise looking for someone to date and have sex with, not hanging out with a woman who isn't that attracted to him but likes talking to him.

Agreed. This sums it up very neatly.

We met for our hobby yesterday. We had a good time and he insisted to go for dinner afterwards. It was St Patrick's weekend and pubs were quite busy so we ended having something quick, grabbed a tea to go and went for a walk.

Conversation was light and funny and we were laughing. Then my earring got entangled with my hair and puff. He helped me with it and then caressed my hair. It disarmed me. I let him kiss me and I got the feels. But I felt really conflicted and had to stop him. As I was there confused and disappointed in myself he dropped the bomb and said that he loved me. I had to leave.

I did not want to drip-feed but at this point the only factor preventing me from going for it is that he wants an open relationship. I am romantically and sexually monogamous. I don't know if there is another conversation to be had or I am an idiot trying to play friends yesterday and not letting things cool off.

He said he loved you. What a headfucking prick.

Seriously I would have laughed in his fake fucking face at that.

At least you now know what a phoney love bombing tit he is.