Please pile on!!

[Noelshouseparty]

Hello everyone.

First things first. I'm expecting a ton of abuse. I deserve it for what I'm about to say and ask. I just hope in the midst of it I can find some advice and perspective. Thank you in advance.

I'm a 43 year old man and married for almost 21 years. I never fell in love in with my wife. She had a child when we got together and I got swept along with having a ready made family. We had another child pretty quickly. And from the first night we met I never really left. My boys are my world. They are 23 and 21 now and still at home but have plans to move on with their lives.

I don't love my wife. The last few years as the demands on us have changed with the boys growing up has shown me that we are two very different people.

I don't hate her. But I've wanted to leave for a long time. I'm a coward. I'm the main earner in the house quite significantly. Not that I earn a great deal. She earns very little. If I left it would destroy her. She has few friends. Her family is awful to her and financially I don't know how she'd cope. I use all this as justification to stay out of guilt. It's selfish but I'm increasingly thinking I need to put myself first. I just don't know how. We rent our home and as it's local authority it's pretty cheap. Not sure how I'd cope financially having to rent (probably privately) I'd have nowhere to stay in the mean time as I also have few friends outside of work and my family are nice but at arms length.

I've found that I'm starting to be more distant which causes arguments. Talking through things is not really an option. She gets very angry very quickly. I don't hate her and don't want to destroy her but she should be with someone who loves her and I don't think that's me. I'm very unattractive so its not about finding a new partner as I doubt I ever will, but my mind has been playing tricks on me. A woman in work has been very friendly recently and I've convinced myself there was some connection there but having talked through it with another colleague I can see that it's just a symptom of my unhappiness. Yes she makes comments like "I'll be your mid life crisis affair" or "shall we run off together" etc but I know she's just having a laugh as that's her personality. She doesn't know that I'm often thinking about her.

I feel bloody terrible but I know that doesn't mean anything.

So this is ambit of a vent but also looking for some advice about what I do really. I'll put my crash helmet on!

I think we can take it as read that he’s playing down her strengths to some extent. Such is the nature of things like this. A lot of men in these situations rationalise their feelings by framing themselves as the saviours of feckless, unpromising women who they stay with out of a sense of duty, but then find after the split that the woman flourishes and thrives in a way they themselves do not. Some even try to rekindle the marriage when they get a reality check about how much it benefited them. Of course, we can only go on what OP is telling us and take it at face value. But I personally know several older men who learned that the grass isn’t always greener.

she never really wanted to work, but sounds like she did work throughout in jobs that fitted around the family, and has been working in a steady job in a school for a while now.
not that complicated, but I guess it depends how you frame it

Life took over and within a few months I was a parent.

Were you unaware of the facts of life and contraceptive choices?

I moved in and then (as my father was very unwell) decided to get engaged. All quite unceremonious really. We married

A bit of a weird decision in modern times.

So....

You moved in with her and got heavily involved with her child from day one..... But didn't love her.

You impregnated her quickly ..but didn't love her.

You got engaged and decided to go through with a marriage for your father; but didn't love her.

You stayed married afterward, but didn't love her.

You don't exactly take responsibility for your major life decisions, do you??

As others have said, there's a distinct whiff of the script here ..... You got involved with her, but not for her really - for her son/the package (if true, was that fair?), you impregnated her and took no precautions - for reasons best known to yourself (!), you got married to her for your Dad (again, was that fair on her?), you stayed married cause of the kids ....
You've never loved her.

You've made an awful lot of huge, pivotal life decisions apparently completely passively and without loving the person you're making your life partner and co parent.

I doubt that's entirely true.
But it's convenient now to say you never loved her, cause it fits with your desire to get out.

You're either running the script and are a bit feckless, or you're UTTERLY feckless.

You’ve spent years married to someone you don’t love. The kids are grown. It’s time to leave.

When did you stop having sex with this woman you got together with cause you liked her son & the ready made family set up, then impregnated (why?.you already had the family setup), then married for your Dad etc. but have never loved??

This.

Standard MN advice is to just do whatever makes you happy. Your deserve that. It’s your right. The consequences of your decision on others are not your concern.

So just leave her. Be happy. She’ll figure it out, simply not your concern. Move on, don’t look back, no guilt.

Just tell you want to separate and see a solicitor. They can decide finances and then you go from there. And this is a chance to work on your self-esteem and gain some autonomy and momentum in your life. Do some work on yourself, forget about relationships but some work on yourself and perhaps an OU course. Make your life matter. Lose weight, get fit and feel alive. You are only 43, the children are grown up, grab your chance now, before life slips away.

@Strawberrydream24 If he's anything like the man I became entangled with online, he couldn't leave her because she'd have cried and it would have 'ruined her life.'

I was told almost exactly the same thing. He met her, didn't fancy her but continued to date her. Discovered early on he didn't really like her and wanted to dump her. He classed her as a casual girlfriend - who BTW, he dated, introduced to his family and friends, lived with and moved around the country with - for 5+ years! During all those years, she was miserable, spoiling everything. The sex was shit too apparently. But he just couldn't break-up with her. He didn't want her to cry, didn't want to 'ruin her life.' Then after 5+ years of shit sex and a miserable existence she babytrapped him, and like all good men he proposed and they married. Many, many years later he's living in a miserable, sexless marriage. They still have family days out and he still buys her flowers/cards for Valentines/Birthdays/Anniversary etc.

He tells me that men just can't dump women (even though he dumped many women before her, so he tells me) and that men are often in relationships/marriages they don't want to be in. He tells me men make great sacrifices for women. In his case he sacrificed his own happiness - because he didn't want to make the miserable woman he didn't love or even like... he just didn't want to make her cry.

I dunno. Maybe it's true.

Well, I've understandably taken a bit of kicking here!
I can't argue with any of the observations offered. Some of the opinions are a bit harsh but I get where your are coming from. To the person who described me as feckless - you are right. Maybe don't judge me too harshly. This is the only long term relationship I have ever been in. We never 'dated'. I don't think I have re-written history to justify my feelings now but maybe.

Lots to think about.

We never 'dated'.

Genuinely curious - how does that work? @Noelshouseparty

Chatted online for a time. Arrangements to meet up during a night out with our separate groups of friends and that was that. Had some trips to the cinema when babysitting available but not many so I would visit her at home mainly and basically just stayed then and it sort of just became a thing.

Did you just remain in a relationship with her all this time, even though you didn’t love her, because you were getting sex from her?

No. I was frightened by the threat made at several points of not being allowed to see my children was real. We don't hate each other and I am very fond of her. I feel a sense of duty as opposed to love. Perhaps I'm just confusing the two. Maybe I do love her and I'm bored or maybe I don't. I just don't know.

It sounds to me like you don't know who you are, and you are immaturely blaming your wife for your confusion and frustration with what sounds like a very dull inauthentic life. A dull life that YOU built by floating and letting the currents take you where they will.

I really recommend therapy to help you sort things out. And see a solicitor to get a real grip of the finances and logistics for both you and your wife in the event you stay or leave.

Might be good to talk about things with a therapist, figure out your true feelings.

Definitely wasn’t ok for her to threaten you with not seeing the children. That would change my feelings for someone.

Agreed. I don't blame my wife though. There are things she has done over the years which we didn't work through and I let my resent grow. It's on me though. I have just drifted. I've had an occasional health appointment at work and they can offer some sessions but I'll probably need to work on things for a while. No quick fix. I'm probably not a particularly good person really. I have used her, a roof over my head if nothing else at times. Good to offload a bit on here and be held to account though.

Yeah but I should have been more assertive. This is my fault.

You have a certain flat affect. Is it possible that you're depressed?

Tbh, your life sounds stultifying and pretty miserable. From the sound of things, you've been drifting a long time, letting others make decisions for you, not taking action to improve things, plodding along day by day along an ever-deepening circular groove, and now half your life is over. Your one source of passion and joy seems to be your children, and now they're about to leave, and you're facing the long dark teatime of the soul (to use Douglas Adams' phrase).

I don't think this is about your wife, really, it's about you.

Who are you? What are your passions (other than your children)? Do you have any hobbies? What to you denotes a well-lived life? Where do you see yourself in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years time?

I really don’t think you’re a horrible person. But, in being dishonest, you’ve strung your poor wife along for years. That’s pretty awful.

I pick up and put down numerous hobbies all the time. I don't focus very well or see things through. Anyway. The advice on therapy is good I think. I have some sessions at work and I'll go from there. I think the most responsible thing to do is leave but I'm paralysed with fear and guilt. I'm quite the coward. But if a pity party again I'm afraid. I'll sort it out.

You sound like a decent guy, almost too decent to be real.

If you need to leave, then leave. But do it kindly and remember it might mean being single for your remaining years. If you feel relieved at that then it is time for you to go.

Can you afford to pay private rent at this stage of your life.

Not popular advice, can you split up, stay in the home and have separate bedrooms, not ideal, but won't leave you homeless or your wife financially flat broke
Its your tenancy too.

I know a few couples who do this, can't afford to buy separately.

@Noelshouseparty "The advice on therapy is good I think. I have some sessions at work and I'll go from there"

Sounds like a good plan.