Husband getting more religious and I'm not sure how I feel about it

[SayDoWhatNow]

My husband and I have been together for about 8 years, married for 4. He is from Egypt and is Muslim. I am culturally Christian although philosophically/religiously humanist.

When we met, DH was not really a practicing Muslim. He would fast at Ramadan, but drank alcohol, ate pork and non-Halal meat, didn't pray, and we lived together for several years before getting married.

Before we married, we had lots of discussions about religion and faith, and we both felt that we have very similar underlying values, even if mine are humanist and his are faith-based. We also agreed that we would raise children as Muslim, so that when they are adults they have the cultural/religious knowledge to participate in faith-based events if they want to. In practice, this means that we do all the Christian and Muslim festivals, plus Halloween and everything else. He also tries to speak Arabic with DS (although really struggles with this when we're in the UK as he basically thinks in English); I'm also learning Arabic, which I enjoy - although basically have no time to work on this now that we have a child and a busy job.

In the past couple of years, since having our DS (nearly 3), he has been getting gradually more religious. He doesn't drink alcohol, no longer eats pork, and tries to pray 5 times a day. This year he has also sometimes been doing the extra Ramadan Taraweeh prayers.

Just to be clear, he's not fundamentalist at all, he doesn't want me to convert or anything and our DS is not circumcised. Similarly, if we had a DD he wouldn't expect her to ever wear a hijab. He's a very involved parent and does more than his share of household tasks and life admin / mental load.

Overall, I want to be supportive of his religious practice, as it's meaningful to him, and I think it's helping him feel positive about himself and his identity as a Muslim in the UK. When we first met, I felt like there was a big difference in how he behaved in the UK vs when we were in Egypt, and I think he's finding a way to be true to both those parts of himself, rather than switching based on context.

But I'm finding it hard that there is an increasing part of his life that I just don't relate to at all. And I'm starting to feel quite disconnected from him. Trying to talk about it doesn't really help because we both seem to get quite defensive quite easily. We've also had 2 pregnancy losses in the last 6 months and while he's found comfort in something around things being God's will I've found that alienating and upsetting (even though it's quite similar to saying that sometimes bad stuff just happens). I'm also anxious about him getting more like his dad, who is both very religious and very traditional/culturally conservative, in future - although in practice I think this is quite unlikely.

How can we work on feeling connected with each other again? I didn't expect such a big change in his religious practice and it feels strange to me.

Oh, and OP, I have a fabulous Egyptian friend who is doing a PhD.

She showed me a photo of her parents and I said "Oh, I love them because they let you be free to pursue your education and dream in life."

Honestly, life doesn't need to be living in a religious straight-jacket.

Look where that got USA! 🙄

Great post

Im not religious but i got to a thai temple about once a year to make merits its more of a habit for me.
I get invited so i tag along its a day out if nothing else.

I'd be getting divorced and not having any more children with this man

This thread is so islamophobic it would be sad if it wasn't so hilarious. Apparently your husband is going to turn extremist OP so be very worried. The media have done so well

You’d be getting divorced because your husband turned to religion in a time of emotional hardship and is still a loving compassionate spouse who puts not pressure on you or your family to believe and do what he does?

well that sounds toxic

So sorry for your friend Parsley1234

Yet MN hq continuously allows it… clearly islamaphobia is an acceptable prejudice

@FofB and @LucyMonth - I do understand that faith is faith and difficult to explain/justify. And generally no, I'm not asking him to explain or rationalize his sense of belief or faith. And I really hope I'm not interrogating him about what exactly he believes.

It's more that I think there is some cognitive dissonance for him because his beliefs sit in a different part of his brain from the rest of our daily lives. Probably quite literally actually - the Arabic part. So even though I'm not asking probing or intrusive questions about his faith, I think just talking about it in English can be a bit uncomfortable because it requires him to think of how to express/translate cultural context and concepts that are ubiquitous in Egypt, but which suddenly require explanation. And that's quite confronting in itself.

That is a very interesting thing to observe! Language and thought are entwined in interesting ways. But he has the experience of translating and engaging with the English side of his brain and with you. I think I am philosophically committed to the belief that we can use language to bridge most divisions and to share our understanding, dreams, and desires. Religion and belief are just one area of his experience that he can share.

I suppose the issue might be the change of the agreement and regarding the child. You agreed for the child to be brought up with one kind of very loose Islam and if the father becomes stricter will he still allow the child to have the kind of Islam that was agreed at the start or has the father changed the deal and the rules as they will apply to the child?

The husband ate pork when the agreement was reached so presumably he would be happy if you fed the child pork as that was in the original agreement even if the father has chosen not to eat it any more? If not, then that would be one example of how the change in the father affects the child and breaches the agreement reached. if the father would be happy for his original diluted islam to be that the child follows rather than the father's new kind then I can see that as less of a problem.

Also it sounds like it was just an in passing comment, but science does matter and it is not God but other reasons that determines miscarriages - eg in some cases because the child had a disability so it naturally might be miscarry etc etc I am sure the father here would not just put it down to God and not have medical intervention if necessary but that is obviously something to watch.

@PurpleThistle7 thank you so much for sharing your reflection and experiences. I really relate to what you are saying about having a discussion once but then needing to revisit it as the relationship evolves and the weight of decisions made earlier becomes more apparent.

I actually did quite a lot of reading about Jewish interfaith families because it is more common than Muslim interfaith relationships, so there is more literature. I found this book really helpful for really crystallizing my thoughts about how to make things work in an interfaith relationship:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Being-Both-Embracing-Religions-Interfaith/dp/0807013196

I also really love this essay from an Orthodox Jewish writer about the (boring) work of creating traditions for your family:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/belief/articles/tractate-shabbat

My husband and I share our religion. However our practise of it has grown since our child turned up - because, in part, I've found that it's important to be that she has the comforting foundation belief in a higher power can provide. There is actually some entirely scientific research that suggests having a religion gives a higher sense of wellbeing, the there could be multiple reasons for this - having more of a sense of purpose, being more connected to a community etc.

Separate from the changing religion elements of this is the challenges introduced to a marriage by having pregnancies that didn't work out, and a toddler. Even with our aligned religious beliefs my husband and I have tension in our marriage because starting a family puts massive stress on a relationship. We aren't as connected, because we don't have time or energy to be!

I'm not saying that your different religious and cultural backgrounds aren't an issue here, but don't forget that you're also at a compeltely normal time in life to find that staying married takes work!

This is beautiful and puts the Catholic Church to shame. I’m not sure if it still maintains that babies who aren’t baptised can’t get into heaven and go into purgatory but my uncle died when he was 5 and because he hadn’t made his First Communion the “priest” refused to give him a funeral mass and wouldn’t even attend the burial graveside.

I wouldn’t worry about your husband OP, he sounds like a good man.

There are two problems here.

He has always felt he had to be more outwardly Muslim when he was in Egypt.

He feels more authentically himself in the UK as a practicing Muslim.

Why?

I think you've been misled as far as his adherence to his Muslim culture goes. Maybe he misled himself.

Regardless, he's experiencing an identity crisis. Why?

What keeps him referring back to a time and a place that he has moved away from?

What does he really believe about the miscarriages?

Absolutely this.

Though I personally would avoid a born-again Christian like the plague, and if I were married to a man who started leaning in that direction, I would seriously reconsider everything about the relationship.

On the subject of changing religion vs hobbies, I think it's similar but religion is a bit more profound because it speaks to deeply held personal values. I think a closer parallel would be one half of a couple wanting to either become or stop being vegetarian - this happened to some friends of mine and the non-veggie partner found it more emotionally challenging than she expected to no longer be able to cook some of her favourite meat-based meals for the whole family.

@pikkumyy77 Interestingly, I think the fact that his English is really fluent is actually a barrier here. He's not usually translating from Arabic in his head - he just thinks in English when we're in the UK. So then there's a bigger split between Arabic culture/religion and everything else. He's really struggled to speak Arabic meaningfully with DS too - we wanted to do OPOL but he just automatically reverts to English apart from in specific contexts, which I do find frustrating.

But would you divorce your husband and father of your children because he found faith in a difficult time and didn’t force it onto you nor your children?

would you make him choose between his faith and your relationship and family?

sounds toxic, thought policing and toxic

@mathanxiety I think cultural context is important here: in Egypt it is very easy to be somewhere between culturally Muslim and relatively observant because the whole of society is set up to facilitate this. Schools and workplaces will observe all the daily prayers for example and there are prayer rooms and mosques all over the place. So in Egypt he had a degree of religious practice that was well within cultural norms.

In the UK, it's much more effort and more unusual to be a practicing Muslim and it forces this to be a much more salient part of your identity if you do practice. A corollary of that is that Muslim communities in the UK tend to be actually more observant/conservative than in Egypt, so it becomes quite all-or-nothing.

I think when DH first came to the UK he struggled to find the right balance for himself. He found most religious community spaces to be too conservative; and he wasn't used to practicing his religion solo in a culture where it's not deeply ingrained in the rhythms of daily life. That led to a period where he wasn't very observant at all.

Now he's found a different balance that is working more authentically for him. He also has friends who are similarly culturally liberal but still practice their faith. He's finding a middle ground and that's a good thing.

I think what this thread has really reminded me about is the importance of daily religious observances in both Islam and Judaism (and actually observant Catholicism), in a way that is maybe different from how people practice Christianity in the UK - where there is more of a focus on beliefs. So my expectation of what practicing a religion looks like is different from his. So my expectation was that you must have to be really religious (ie very culturally conservative too) if you are doing all the prayers. But actually, for someone from his cultural background it's a pretty normal level of observance and clearly in his case isn't associated with being socially conservative.

Absolutely my thinking @Anudawan , and also your rely to MathAnxiety's post.

I'm not saying that your different religious and cultural backgrounds aren't an issue here, but don't forget that you're also at a compeltely normal time in life to find that staying married takes work!

This, absolutely.

I'm in a cross cultural relationship with a Muslim man, and like you I am culturally Christian but I don't practice any religion and was never brought up to be religious.
While me and my partner think alike and approach life in similar ways, his faith means a lot to him and he practices it daily. He is currently fasting for Ramadan and doing extra evening prayers. He is devout but not dogmatic, and accepts my differing beliefs.
I can relate to what you say about some aspects of his belief that makes me feel a little detached from him on occasion, for me it is more an occasional jolt of realising he has a very different belief to me about something, rather than an ongoing feeling.
I accept that there will be some things related to his faith or culture that I won't understand. I do ask him to explain things to me, for example what something means to him or why something is important. He also has learned to ask me the same.
We both try to focus on our similarities and common ground, of which there is plenty.

My husband is culturally muslim and raised in a deeply conservative place. He’s been atheist from a young age. But some things definitely live in a different part of his brain. I have a few phrases of his language but he sees me and is in his English language and brain, even if I want to learn - but he can share a lot more culture with our son because they speak husband’s language together. It’s led to some surprises! My husband explained heaven and hell and the devil! Meanwhile I am spiritual but not religious so I have a number of beliefs that don’t fit with an absolute heaven and hell. He also wants to add in a lot more religious festivals, but doesn’t pray. He drinks and eats pepperoni and hotdogs and IKEA meatballs but not pork pork. It’s hard to tell which things are haram to him and not.

BUT my grandfather's side were muslim and my grandfather was atheist so I have background in those inconsistencies. And my mum and I and now my kids are all growing up/grew up in between cultures. Going to my Catholic grandparents’ services were as strange as going to mosque for a great uncle, while our usual weekends were groceries and hiking.

Maybe ask more about what he gets from connecting with faith, and ask also (separate convo) for more time to connect together.

Your kids will be okay learning humanism and Islam. And they will be proud to have parents who respected each other

Apart from your DH praying slightly more often, he has stopped drinking alcohol and not eating pork.
The dietry changes seem very positive for his health. He will be alive longer for his family.
Does he stop you drinking alcohol?
It seems that you husband has just grown up. Many men drink way less alcohol, take better care of their diet and exercise.
He is becoming more like his father. That is not odd.

You can also change and grow up.
If I were you, I'd want to expose my son to a formal view of Christianity. Take him once a month to a church. I would have a balance to his Muslim so he has real choices. I'd also take him to a Buddhist temple when he is older. He knows religion only if he learns about the practises and knows people from his religious communities. To have only Muslim associations is biased.

No, and I have personally found faith in similar circumstances (personal loss). Or rather, I have realised what the faith I was brought up in is really about, and seen its depth of wisdom (maybe the same thing).

And, while I am divorced, I would not have divorced over a husband doing the same for the same reasons.

A husband joining a cult or becoming a born again Christian otoh would imo be showing a very serious lack of judgement and a failure of intellectual understanding of religion, and I would reconsider marriage over that. Reconsider as opposed to divorce - I would think long and hard, giving the benefit of the doubt initially at any rate.

If the religious change was accompanied by a change for the worse in personality and behaviour, I would have far less patience, though I would also urge a man doing this to go to therapy. I think my idea here would be that there was some sort of psychological problem behind such a change - I would consider the embrace of a different religious belief as a symptom of something else going on.

Then again, conversion to Islam or Judaism or Buddhism or another branch of Christianity that was a purely personal choice, and a husband remained the same nice guy he'd always been - no issue. Basically, an embrace of religion that didn't negatively affect behaviour and didn't involve a religion that was traditionally intolerant of mine - I wouldn't have an issue with that. However, I'd wonder how to navigate it all with the children, because my religion is important to me and bringing my children up in the religion is too. There would be a lot of nuance and a lot to consider.

The thing here is that the OP and her H seem to have entered a state where they are not really succeeding in communicating with each other about the miscarriages. I think the OP may be placing too much emphasis on or becoming distracted by the religious practises of her husband and not looking deeply enough beneath them. We are all human regardless of religious beliefs, and it should be possible for them to encounter each other on this human level and deal with their feelings heart to heart.

Like a couple of other posters, i think this thread has turned into one about Islam (with a dose of Islamophobia) Rather than addressing your problem, op, which is feeling less connection to your husband.

Have you actually told him this?

I wonder how much of this feeling of disconnect is down to grief & you both grieving in different ways, and looking at it this way might simplify matters.

It isn't unusual for the loss of a child (or children) to affect a couple's relationship and rather than religiosity, I think it might be helpful for you both to explore the grief you both feel instead. This might also tell help remove rhe defensiveness that crops up when you discuss religion.

Given, though, that his religion and grief and undoubtedly intertwined I think there's a preliminary conversation to be had, however:

• you're feeling disconnected from him & missing emotional intimacy
• you support his religious practices & beliefs but...what? You need to be clear about what you need here, is it that you need to feel included? To understand them more? Or that you want a critical discussion about Islam? You need to work out what outcome you want.
• you would like to feel closer & more in partnership (?) Without either of you becoming defensive

You both need to feel safe with each other to unpick this disconnect between you. And remember, you're a partnership dealing with dreadful loss together - not separately. How can you cope with it as a partnership?