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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My son (18) has become angry and bitter

91 replies

ForLimeScroller · 27/02/2025 09:56

My son (18) is finishing his A levels this year and is going to university next year. He is incredibly angry and bitter at his life and I’d like some advice on what to say to him. He is going to do a physics degree and always found academics quite easy and was always described as very intelligent or sometimes a “genius”.
He has very mild autism and was often teased when he was younger he was called things like “spastic” and “retarded” and was told he has an “extra chromosome” although it is important to note he is not intellectually disabled in any meaningful way and no one would genuinely believe he was when speaking to him.
He is bitter he never had a high school girlfriend although I know he has “pulled girls” in house parties and more recently nightclubs. He has become incredibly bitter, and he has started looking at things online that are not good for him. People like Andrew tate ad other alpha male influencers. He started telling me about things like the “blackpill and redpill” which are dating ideologies he found online. They basically say the conventional dating advice of just be kind and the right girl will come are wrong and the only way to attract women is by working extremely hard at it and constantly obsessing over self-improvement. He seems to believe he was dealt a bad hand in life and has become obsessed with self-improvement in order to be able to “pull women” and becoming one of the top 1% of men. He looks up to and admires people such as Andrew Tate and aspires to become like them. He seems to believe he is currently treated like a “sub human” and has become obsessed with self-improvement and something called “looksmaxing” to an unhealthy degree. Very often on the weekend he goes to nightclubs where his sole objective is to find a girl to take home with him so he believes can finally ascend out of subhuman status although I don’t believe he has managed this yet.
He is so obsessed with this he has spent over £50 of my money paying people online to rate his face out of 10. They sent him a long technical document filled with ratios and measurements of his face which resembles something I would read in my career as an engineer. They also gave him a final rating of a 4.5 out of 10 or slightly below average. One of them told him “Your face is common but you will be seen as slightly below average or plain looking”. Another told him you are a 4/10 but you have potential to looksmax to a 6 and the primary advice was to keep going to the gym to slim down to 12% bodyfat and get a 6 pack. Another thing he did online is he went onto a livestream of one of these alpha males influencers and asked for looksmaxing advice and asked him to rate him out of 10. This influencer online insulted him and told him he looked like he had been through a midlife crisis and that he had man boobs and a gut. However he then rated him a 6/10 and said his face looked good and there was nothing wrong with it. This seemed to please him greatly as it seemed to give him hope that he has the genetic potential to “save himself” and manage to ascend to the top 1% of men. When my son told the influencer but a 6 out of 10 is average the influencer told my son women don’t want average they only want the best men. I think this is a harmful message as it further cemented his belief how he is is not good enough and made worse his constant need to self improve.
He seems to believe that average men in western society he is treated extremely poorly and he told him girls see him like he would see “dog shit on the street”. He also believes that the top 1% of men have a quality of life 100x better and he has made it his life goal to reach the top 1% of attractiveness.
He has often tried to change his personality to attract women. His voice is quite flat and monotone and I have noticed a conscious effort to change this around women where he would try to vary the pitch of his voice. He was also told he was socially akward and compared to “AI” or “Chat GTP” in another instance of people taking the piss out of him. This seems to really upset him and I can see how much effort he puts in trying to “fix his personality” to be more attractive to women.
I would really appreciate some advice on what to say to him so that his mental health can improve when he starts university next year and how he can learn to accept himself how he is instead of constantly seeing himself as defective and trying to fix himself into what he sees as the ideal in order to attract women.

OP posts:
Ineedpeaceandquiet · 27/02/2025 10:01

I think its very hard for the young men today especially with social media.

Perhaps gently encourage him to be the best he can be without aggressive tactics eg trendy haircut, staying fit and working on his social skills.

Then the rest will follow.

Happyinarcon · 27/02/2025 10:05

You seem to know an awful lot about his life for an 18 year old man

LondonPapa · 27/02/2025 10:09

Tell your son I'm an average guy in 'Western' society and I'm treated well by all the gorgeous women out there. The secret is to not follow Andrew Tate's BS and treat women normally.

And hitting the gym, taking part in a team sport, or at least a sport that requires human interaction via a club, good hygeine and basic good fitting clothes along with a nice haricut.

Paying for people to rate him online is seriously sad and for that, he is sub-human. Only deluded men pay others to rate them! His behaviour is frankly pathetic. Tell him to stop or, better, get a guy to tell him to stop.

LadeOde · 27/02/2025 10:13

It sounds like he is going through a mental health crisis manifesting as intense anxiety looks and women. I would try and get him to see a doctor and possibly medicated.

ForLimeScroller · 27/02/2025 10:16

Ineedpeaceandquiet · 27/02/2025 10:01

I think its very hard for the young men today especially with social media.

Perhaps gently encourage him to be the best he can be without aggressive tactics eg trendy haircut, staying fit and working on his social skills.

Then the rest will follow.

He tells me all of this.

OP posts:
ItsaMOBone · 27/02/2025 10:19

Does he have an older male role model? Is his dad in his life?

ForLimeScroller · 27/02/2025 10:20

ItsaMOBone · 27/02/2025 10:19

Does he have an older male role model? Is his dad in his life?

Yes he tells his dad this too. But his Dad just tells him it is all bullshit and whenever he brings it up it causes a fight.

OP posts:
Creepybookworm · 27/02/2025 10:20

None of this messaging young men are getting is logical. I worked with couples for years and my conclusion is that women are incredibly forgiving of looks. Women like kind men who make them laugh. They marry short men, bald men, chubby men. The same is not true of men so much, the looks inequality usually goes one way only.

Why do young men expect so much, so young these days? My tall, good looking husband didn't have to a girlfriend until he was in his 20s, I was 19 by before I had a boyfriend. This is not unusual!

I don't know what to say that will help but I have two young sons of my own who can often spout some right crap they have picked up online and I really feel for you.

Chuchoter · 27/02/2025 10:27

Give him a year out to travel. Thats what we did with all our children. It really broadens their horizons and take on life.

ForLimeScroller · 27/02/2025 10:29

One thing I didn't mention is recently he brought a girl back from a nightclub to my house and slept with her and lost his virginity. He did this in our guestroom downstairs. I am concerned as I don't think this is a good way to meet women as there is no connection. He saw this as validation of his beliefs that his "hard work" paid off. I'm worried sees the number of women he slept with as a score board and the fact he managed as validation of his previous beliefs. He is now starting to influence his younger brother who also has a few of these issues and I don't want his younger brother to go through the same line of thinking.

OP posts:
EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 27/02/2025 10:35

It really does sound likes his ASD is creating this from everything you’ve written. He is awkward socially and his peer group can spot this so he’s doing everything he can to mask, which makes him look desperate. I honestly think you have to try and help him find some acceptance for the person he is as opposed to the person he thinks he wants to be. I imagine he has spent FAR too much time online which is fuelling this massively.

Ts13folklore · 27/02/2025 11:00

Your son (and many boys now unfortunately) have been convinced online by incels that their lives are so hard as men. But in reality it’s quite far from the truth and the reason they struggle is different to what they think. e.g the stuggle is that it is harder for boys to avoid brainwashing and feeling shit when they’re constantly told they have to ‘man up’ by the same men that claim to have an online presence to help them and ‘lift’ them up.

Your son needs to understand that people like Andrew Tate are frauds and are spewing BS because of their personal brand. That’s how they make money - they’re not normal or respectable people that we should be looking up to. It’s their job to get sound bites and they are exploiting young men into thinking they need to constantly ‘improve’ (ofc improvement is a normal human behaviour but to obsess over it causes mental health issues). And teaching them stupid theories like redpill blackpill which is nonsense.

Your son probably needs to be taught about feminism. But because it sounds like he is so far gone, I would approach it in a way that’s gentler. Otherwise he is going to have a negative view on women and be an incel forever.

The thing is men can only be taught about feminism and respecting women slowly and organically - by introducing feminist conversation and media to them when they are young so that they have a base of understanding. At this point it feels like he will just laugh and argue about how feminism is harming men and is redundant. But it is because of feminism that you - his mum can be an engineer today and he should be proud of that. I think you have time to teach this to your younger son.

Just because he was bullied at school by horrible children who probably came from bad homes doesn’t mean that it should define him. Perhaps tell him the reasons kids bully - it’s because they probably saw that he was smart and were jealous. Maybe they knew he came from a home where both parents work and it struck a cord in them. Maybe kids just need to talk it up on at school and pick a target. But going forward, he can own his narrative and reject the way he’s been treated. He can be a better man for his own sake and get a girlfriend - he doesn’t need to prove a scoreboard of conquests to anyone. If he can be a decent guy and respect women and get a girl to actually love him for him - it would start to heal the wounds of school ground bullying.

You could tell them that the hallmarks of a good man is making their girlfriend feel good about themselves. Satisfying her needs - commmiting to love and understanding. Sure he can go to the gym and the ladies will love it but what matters is inside. Sure he could attract a woman that fancies him - he could change his hair and his face and voice but he would resent the fact that a woman only gave him a chance after he changed himself. Confidence comes from respecting yourself and others.

Looks really don’t matter - he needs to understand this. Sure as a teenager it’s all that matters but when grown men are obsessed with how they look it’s a bit weird. Why is he listening to grown adults on the Internet who tell teenage boys they need to improve the way they look. That’s just weird and no respectable ‘TRUE’ gentlemen would waste their life on ridiculous matters. We’re all just skin and bone. He needs perspective.

If he thinks it’s hard for men nowadays, why is he arguing with his father? So many men without a male role model would die to even have a father that’s present and a mother who even hears them out like you!

CactusForever · 27/02/2025 11:16

I think you might need specialist help since he’s effectively been radicalised online (in a way). Have you read the Laura Bates book about the manosphere?

Is he friends with other young ASD ppl? Helping him to find his tribe (that he doesn’t have to mask around) seems really important. There are many autistic women that he might be able to relate to more authentically.

A question I’d have is whether he has a lot of internalised ableism, e.g. would he consider an autistic girlfriend with some social struggles or is he focused on the incel values of looksmaxxing / idealised ‘feminine beauty’ etc. in women? Focussing on raising his self esteem and self acceptance in the first instance, might be a starting point that’s less confrontational than simply picking a fight over his (dire) beliefs about women.

sashh · 27/02/2025 11:31

Andrew Tate is currently under police investigation for trafficking and rape in one country with a second one waiting for the first to conclude before extradition.

He is a tax dodger who has just has a couple of million pounds ceased.

Why on earth does your son want to be like him?

Jasmin71 · 27/02/2025 11:53

Your son would benefit from counselling. He is going down a dangerous rabbit hole here. Please get him help. Andrew Tate is a monster.

redannie18 · 27/02/2025 12:10

I think its wrong to describe him as having very mild autism, there is no such thing, and its obvious from your post that his autism is causing him major problems that should not be minimised (bullying, social problems, black and white thinking, naivety etc).

Please try to get him to find his tribe, is there a sport, music etc he likes? If he wants women to like him he needs to understand that using them for sex/status is absolutely not going to help him.

hadwebutworldenoughandtime · 27/02/2025 12:25

There is a reason these 'influencers' come out with all this shit - money.

Ask him what incentive they would have to be negative about his looks (to make more money from him) or to be positive (he would walk off happily into the sunset).

It's very culty behaviour and all about exploiting young men and their vulnerabilities - something young men often fail to notice about Andrew Tate's income stream.

Fitzcarraldo353 · 27/02/2025 12:39

I don't know if it'll help but I did watch this channel 4.doc on Looksmaxxing recently

It might be useful for understanding what's going on.

Also this podcast

https://open.spotify.com/episode/7hg8xDAnrOHQR3baCc5VAk?si=pa8xcQFXR5aMsdL6IHRb-A

frozendaisy · 27/02/2025 12:53

The Andrew Tates of the online world first convince lots of normal males there is something wrong with them, then only they can help fix it.

snake oil strategy old as civilisation itself
he’s not dumb as you say
can you explain this to him?

if he goes to uni with these philosophies they will become self fulfilling, he will be brimming with the incel red pill vibe and women will steer clear, of course they fucking will, so proving that the Andrew tates of this world are right, and round and round he will go

if he goes to uni like this it will be a shitstorm utter waste of money and time

why does he want a girlfriend? He thinks all women are dumb fucks who all want the 1%? So where is the attractiveness in that? You could try that tactic?

dairydebris · 27/02/2025 12:59

Farking hell.
Humans invented the internet and then did this with it.

I'm so sorry OP. I don't know the way out. Lots of love will help. He needs to be around normal and normal looking people as much as possible. It's good that he's open about it.

If he was younger I'd say take the internet access away completely.

Doglady1764 · 27/02/2025 14:11

Op this sounds so incredibly hard. The real irony about what Andrew Tate does is that it makes men like that LESS attractive to women because men can then come across as misogynistic, bit headed, have a lack of self awareness and won’t listen to what the other partner wants.

Starlight7080 · 27/02/2025 14:34

This is so sad . The Internet really has made young people's lives so much harder.
Shame on all those men online rating others appearance.
Ironically most of them don't seem to talk about happiness. It's all about shallow qualities that most women don't care about.
You only have to look at famous women who are married to men who definitely don't have 6 packs and so called perfect faces .
Most women want a man who can make them laugh and treat them with respect.
He does sound like he has been brainwashed into believing all this nonsense.
Do you think therapy may help him? With a man maybe . Who has sensible views that don't echo Andrew tate type people .

crackofdoom · 27/02/2025 14:43

There are various men online who debunk this kind of nonsense. Cyzor is one who sometimes pops up on my feed- he's a fairly nice looking guy who works out (and gets a LOT of thirsty comments from women!), but he pulls apart the content of the incels and makes the point that the most important thing in attracting women is being a nice person and treating them like human beings.

Jade520 · 27/02/2025 15:01

Just reading up on 'black pill' and how the options end up at suicide or mass violence. This is a really dangerous rabbit hole he is heading down OP. To me with his history of trauma (ASD/bullying), his desperation to look good and fascination with the superficial, his low self esteem and desperation for validation I'd be concerned he's headed for a Narcissistic personality disorder. We know ND people are more at risk of developing personality disorders and he's starting to tick boxes.

I'm sorry I don't know where you go from here but I'd be very concerned.

FKAT · 27/02/2025 15:14

Jade520 · 27/02/2025 15:01

Just reading up on 'black pill' and how the options end up at suicide or mass violence. This is a really dangerous rabbit hole he is heading down OP. To me with his history of trauma (ASD/bullying), his desperation to look good and fascination with the superficial, his low self esteem and desperation for validation I'd be concerned he's headed for a Narcissistic personality disorder. We know ND people are more at risk of developing personality disorders and he's starting to tick boxes.

I'm sorry I don't know where you go from here but I'd be very concerned.

I agree with this. This is not something that can be resolved with a pep chat and some new clothes or hobbies. This is radicalisation online into dangerous misogyny and needs a serious intervention either from Prevent* or a very experienced therapist who specialises in male violence.

I am sorry OP - I can't imagine what it's like. It's prompted me to have a conversation with my teenager but please don't blame yourself. Unfortunately there is a whole world online that you can't stop teenagers accessing and it's scary.

*Yeah I know Prevent are fucking useless.