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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My son (18) has become angry and bitter

91 replies

ForLimeScroller · 27/02/2025 09:56

My son (18) is finishing his A levels this year and is going to university next year. He is incredibly angry and bitter at his life and I’d like some advice on what to say to him. He is going to do a physics degree and always found academics quite easy and was always described as very intelligent or sometimes a “genius”.
He has very mild autism and was often teased when he was younger he was called things like “spastic” and “retarded” and was told he has an “extra chromosome” although it is important to note he is not intellectually disabled in any meaningful way and no one would genuinely believe he was when speaking to him.
He is bitter he never had a high school girlfriend although I know he has “pulled girls” in house parties and more recently nightclubs. He has become incredibly bitter, and he has started looking at things online that are not good for him. People like Andrew tate ad other alpha male influencers. He started telling me about things like the “blackpill and redpill” which are dating ideologies he found online. They basically say the conventional dating advice of just be kind and the right girl will come are wrong and the only way to attract women is by working extremely hard at it and constantly obsessing over self-improvement. He seems to believe he was dealt a bad hand in life and has become obsessed with self-improvement in order to be able to “pull women” and becoming one of the top 1% of men. He looks up to and admires people such as Andrew Tate and aspires to become like them. He seems to believe he is currently treated like a “sub human” and has become obsessed with self-improvement and something called “looksmaxing” to an unhealthy degree. Very often on the weekend he goes to nightclubs where his sole objective is to find a girl to take home with him so he believes can finally ascend out of subhuman status although I don’t believe he has managed this yet.
He is so obsessed with this he has spent over £50 of my money paying people online to rate his face out of 10. They sent him a long technical document filled with ratios and measurements of his face which resembles something I would read in my career as an engineer. They also gave him a final rating of a 4.5 out of 10 or slightly below average. One of them told him “Your face is common but you will be seen as slightly below average or plain looking”. Another told him you are a 4/10 but you have potential to looksmax to a 6 and the primary advice was to keep going to the gym to slim down to 12% bodyfat and get a 6 pack. Another thing he did online is he went onto a livestream of one of these alpha males influencers and asked for looksmaxing advice and asked him to rate him out of 10. This influencer online insulted him and told him he looked like he had been through a midlife crisis and that he had man boobs and a gut. However he then rated him a 6/10 and said his face looked good and there was nothing wrong with it. This seemed to please him greatly as it seemed to give him hope that he has the genetic potential to “save himself” and manage to ascend to the top 1% of men. When my son told the influencer but a 6 out of 10 is average the influencer told my son women don’t want average they only want the best men. I think this is a harmful message as it further cemented his belief how he is is not good enough and made worse his constant need to self improve.
He seems to believe that average men in western society he is treated extremely poorly and he told him girls see him like he would see “dog shit on the street”. He also believes that the top 1% of men have a quality of life 100x better and he has made it his life goal to reach the top 1% of attractiveness.
He has often tried to change his personality to attract women. His voice is quite flat and monotone and I have noticed a conscious effort to change this around women where he would try to vary the pitch of his voice. He was also told he was socially akward and compared to “AI” or “Chat GTP” in another instance of people taking the piss out of him. This seems to really upset him and I can see how much effort he puts in trying to “fix his personality” to be more attractive to women.
I would really appreciate some advice on what to say to him so that his mental health can improve when he starts university next year and how he can learn to accept himself how he is instead of constantly seeing himself as defective and trying to fix himself into what he sees as the ideal in order to attract women.

OP posts:
Shitmonger · 27/02/2025 15:19

He’s fallen into incel culture. Red pill, black pill, looksmaxxing, are all incel hotbeds. What he’s not being honest with you about is the mindset towards women that he also holds as part of these groups. They think that women are animals, stupid, inferior, only good for sex. Their theories and strategies are all about how to manipulate, trick, and coerce women into having sex with them. Most of these groups also have an element of paedophilia to them and push the idea that men in their 20s and 30s should seek out 14-16 year olds for relationships.

If this is genuine, you will absolutely need specialist help.

GatherlyGal · 27/02/2025 15:24

If he has some autism traits he may well be finding socialising and connecting with people really hard. He's seeking answers online which is a natural thing to do but of course it won't help.

My DD is autistic and had some talking therapy at about 16/17 to help with navigating friendships and relationships and it made a huge difference. Might he be open to that?

He needs to learn how to deal with very normal interactions between peers and girls as for some kids these things just don't come naturally. They think its about looks (and get stuck down rabbit holes) when of course it isn't.

The social isolation is really tough so anything to help with that might pull him away from the darker influences online.

EnchantedForestNearTheRiver · 27/02/2025 15:36

I agree with Jade and Shitmonger.

Given his age you probably can’t make him do anything. But I would set rules about him bringing girls back and I would not listen to his bullshit because he’s being really disrespectful to you talking to you about his stupid theories about women.

I would tell him he sounds like a weirdo and an incel and to never bring it up again.

EmmaMaria · 27/02/2025 15:40

I agree with the last few posts here - no matter what else may or may not be part of the mix, he has been, and is continuing to be, groomed by some very dangerous people. He needs professional help - which will be impossible if he doesn't himself see the problem because he is legally an adult.

You might try this link for advice:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4xns1bgpN68MjJrVl13dyLW/information-and-support-inside-the-secret-world-of-incels

You could also speak to Prevent to ask them for any contacts they have?

EmmaMaria · 27/02/2025 15:43

EnchantedForestNearTheRiver · 27/02/2025 15:36

I agree with Jade and Shitmonger.

Given his age you probably can’t make him do anything. But I would set rules about him bringing girls back and I would not listen to his bullshit because he’s being really disrespectful to you talking to you about his stupid theories about women.

I would tell him he sounds like a weirdo and an incel and to never bring it up again.

I would tell him he sounds like a weirdo and an incel and to never bring it up again.

And how would isolating him further assist? All that does is (a) feed into incel rhetoric and (b) ensure that he shares less about what he is doing / thinking. You can set boundaries, but calling him stupid or weird will simply push him further into the hands of these people. They are not stupid or weird - he is being groomed by very dangerous people.

outerspacepotato · 27/02/2025 15:54

Your son has been sucked into extremely misogynistic social media. This content is designed to be addictive in a sense using your son's deep insecurities to pry open his wallet and spread their ideas.

He needs professional help to address his insecurities and how he's basically been brainwashed.

Run your home. Put rules in place regarding bringing young women overnight. Make yourself aware of feminist content and intersectionality and issues around consent and privilege and discuss all this with your younger child. This red pill shit is a bad influence in the home and you have to counter it.

LadeOde · 27/02/2025 15:57

@EnchantedForestNearTheRiver Aren't you a peach? would you face your own son with and tell him he sounds like a weirdo and an incel? A vulnerable lad barely out of his teens with Autism struggling to fit in socially that's being groomed elicits no sympathy from you at all just hate and anger because that's exactly what's coming from your post. If this were a young woman going through the same thing is that the advice you would give?
There a lots of women on MN who have been hurt and abused by men but you need to be careful how you project your anger on to all men. @OP is looking for help for her ds not destructive advice to kill the last shred of trust he's got in humanity.

Hazel665 · 27/02/2025 15:58

I suspect this is all caused by his autism. He is unsure how to attract girls, so looks for answers online - his autism means he thinks there's some kind of 'formula' or procedure to be followed.

Hopefully he will meet lots of different people, ND as well as NT, at uni and things will happen naturally.

Newfoundzestforlife · 27/02/2025 16:01

Happyinarcon · 27/02/2025 10:05

You seem to know an awful lot about his life for an 18 year old man

What a pointless comment! She's his mum and it's good that he's talking to her rather than just getting more and more quietly depressed.

What's your point?

romdowa · 27/02/2025 16:07

LadeOde · 27/02/2025 15:57

@EnchantedForestNearTheRiver Aren't you a peach? would you face your own son with and tell him he sounds like a weirdo and an incel? A vulnerable lad barely out of his teens with Autism struggling to fit in socially that's being groomed elicits no sympathy from you at all just hate and anger because that's exactly what's coming from your post. If this were a young woman going through the same thing is that the advice you would give?
There a lots of women on MN who have been hurt and abused by men but you need to be careful how you project your anger on to all men. @OP is looking for help for her ds not destructive advice to kill the last shred of trust he's got in humanity.

Edited

I'm autistic myself and I would 100% come down hard on this bulshit in my home. His obsession sounds dangerous and I'd wager that's putting more women off than anything else. I've seen this story play out with too many austitc men and they usually end up in a lot of trouble when their advances are rejected.

Mynewnameis · 27/02/2025 16:08

I have an autistic 11 year old and I dread this.
Op, it's great he's talking to you. Keep his trust.

seebiscuit1 · 27/02/2025 16:11

ForLimeScroller · 27/02/2025 09:56

My son (18) is finishing his A levels this year and is going to university next year. He is incredibly angry and bitter at his life and I’d like some advice on what to say to him. He is going to do a physics degree and always found academics quite easy and was always described as very intelligent or sometimes a “genius”.
He has very mild autism and was often teased when he was younger he was called things like “spastic” and “retarded” and was told he has an “extra chromosome” although it is important to note he is not intellectually disabled in any meaningful way and no one would genuinely believe he was when speaking to him.
He is bitter he never had a high school girlfriend although I know he has “pulled girls” in house parties and more recently nightclubs. He has become incredibly bitter, and he has started looking at things online that are not good for him. People like Andrew tate ad other alpha male influencers. He started telling me about things like the “blackpill and redpill” which are dating ideologies he found online. They basically say the conventional dating advice of just be kind and the right girl will come are wrong and the only way to attract women is by working extremely hard at it and constantly obsessing over self-improvement. He seems to believe he was dealt a bad hand in life and has become obsessed with self-improvement in order to be able to “pull women” and becoming one of the top 1% of men. He looks up to and admires people such as Andrew Tate and aspires to become like them. He seems to believe he is currently treated like a “sub human” and has become obsessed with self-improvement and something called “looksmaxing” to an unhealthy degree. Very often on the weekend he goes to nightclubs where his sole objective is to find a girl to take home with him so he believes can finally ascend out of subhuman status although I don’t believe he has managed this yet.
He is so obsessed with this he has spent over £50 of my money paying people online to rate his face out of 10. They sent him a long technical document filled with ratios and measurements of his face which resembles something I would read in my career as an engineer. They also gave him a final rating of a 4.5 out of 10 or slightly below average. One of them told him “Your face is common but you will be seen as slightly below average or plain looking”. Another told him you are a 4/10 but you have potential to looksmax to a 6 and the primary advice was to keep going to the gym to slim down to 12% bodyfat and get a 6 pack. Another thing he did online is he went onto a livestream of one of these alpha males influencers and asked for looksmaxing advice and asked him to rate him out of 10. This influencer online insulted him and told him he looked like he had been through a midlife crisis and that he had man boobs and a gut. However he then rated him a 6/10 and said his face looked good and there was nothing wrong with it. This seemed to please him greatly as it seemed to give him hope that he has the genetic potential to “save himself” and manage to ascend to the top 1% of men. When my son told the influencer but a 6 out of 10 is average the influencer told my son women don’t want average they only want the best men. I think this is a harmful message as it further cemented his belief how he is is not good enough and made worse his constant need to self improve.
He seems to believe that average men in western society he is treated extremely poorly and he told him girls see him like he would see “dog shit on the street”. He also believes that the top 1% of men have a quality of life 100x better and he has made it his life goal to reach the top 1% of attractiveness.
He has often tried to change his personality to attract women. His voice is quite flat and monotone and I have noticed a conscious effort to change this around women where he would try to vary the pitch of his voice. He was also told he was socially akward and compared to “AI” or “Chat GTP” in another instance of people taking the piss out of him. This seems to really upset him and I can see how much effort he puts in trying to “fix his personality” to be more attractive to women.
I would really appreciate some advice on what to say to him so that his mental health can improve when he starts university next year and how he can learn to accept himself how he is instead of constantly seeing himself as defective and trying to fix himself into what he sees as the ideal in order to attract women.

The best advice you can offer your son in to "disregard females, acquire currency"

EmmaMaria · 27/02/2025 16:16

I don't think you truly appreciate just how dangerous this incel rhetoric is. If you came down hard on this "bullshit" - as with any extremist movement - the OP will drive him further INTO the arms of extremism. "Coming down hard" does not work. His thinking doesn't sound dangerous - it is dangerous, as much to him as to others. Like anyone drawn into extremism, he needs help to get out of it from professionals who know what they are doing.

Divastrout · 27/02/2025 16:19

Happyinarcon · 27/02/2025 10:05

You seem to know an awful lot about his life for an 18 year old man

I agree! I am pretty sure I have read or seen a documentary with very similar phraseology!

EmmaMaria · 27/02/2025 16:19

Mynewnameis · 27/02/2025 16:08

I have an autistic 11 year old and I dread this.
Op, it's great he's talking to you. Keep his trust.

This is aimed at teachers of children 14 - 16, but you might find it useful as a guyide for thinking about how to approach these conversations as your child gets older.
https://www.educateagainsthate.com/resources/incels-a-guide-for-those-teaching-year-10-and-above/

EmmaMaria · 27/02/2025 16:21

Divastrout · 27/02/2025 16:19

I agree! I am pretty sure I have read or seen a documentary with very similar phraseology!

Troll hunting isn't allowed. Take the OP at face value. It's an important subject anyway, so hopefully will be of value to anyone who reads the thread. This is the reality of life these days - parents are facing these very real challenges. And the stories are never really unique.

treesandsun · 27/02/2025 16:24

The problem with social media and the algorithms is that having looked at stuff and read things - he will be constantly getting more of the same aimed at him and fuelling his anxieties, anger and paranoia. The difficulty you have with his age is you're unable to police a lot of it.
I would see about private counselling - perhaps you can persuade him to go under the guise of making sure he is absolutely ready for the level of independence he will have at university.

The other thing and this is a reach and I have no idea if it will actually work is to find positive male role models whose behaviour you would prefer him to copy and try to drop their names in when you are near his devices and hope they pop up on his feeds.

Holdonforsummer · 27/02/2025 16:28

I would recommend watching the BBC Andrew Tate documentary with your son and discussing it. My 16 year old son was horrified at some of the stuff coming out of Tate’s mouth. If he watches that and is still has Incel tendencies, I would be worried.

Naunet · 27/02/2025 16:34

Ugh, I worry for any girls he runs into. I'm sorry but he's a misogynist who doesn't see women as full human beings. He has eyes in his head doesnt he? He can see very clearly that its not just 1% of men who have relationships with women, and frankly, in most couples I see, the woman is better looking than the man. Tell him to get off the internet, stop looking up to a sad, chinless child abuser, and look around at the real world.

EnchantedForestNearTheRiver · 27/02/2025 16:42

** Aren't you a peach? would you face your own son with and tell him he sounds like a weirdo and an incel? A vulnerable lad barely out of his teens with Autism struggling to fit in socially that's being groomed elicits no sympathy from you at all just hate and anger because that's exactly what's coming from your post. If this were a young woman going through the same thing is that the advice you would give?
There a lots of women on MN who have been hurt and abused by men but you need to be careful how you project your anger on to all men. @OP is looking for help for her ds not destructive advice to kill the last shred of trust he's got in humanity.

Yes I would. Because he is an incel and it is weird and not ok. I wouldn’t want him to be seen as the weirdo at college going on about this, and if I didn’t tell him, someone else would.

It doesn’t mean I wouldn't offer support with what’s caused this. But I wouldn’t be listening to this stuff. And I’d be making sure he couldn’t access this stuff from my router as well.

Littlefish · 27/02/2025 16:49

redannie18 · 27/02/2025 12:10

I think its wrong to describe him as having very mild autism, there is no such thing, and its obvious from your post that his autism is causing him major problems that should not be minimised (bullying, social problems, black and white thinking, naivety etc).

Please try to get him to find his tribe, is there a sport, music etc he likes? If he wants women to like him he needs to understand that using them for sex/status is absolutely not going to help him.

I absolutely agree with this.

Counselling support is really important to help your son.

His autism is highly likely to be at least partly at the route of all this.

He is blaming the fact that he doesn't feel like he fits in on women and society, rather than recognising that it's most likely due to his autism. autism is never 'mild' it just presents in different ways in different people.

Holdonforsummer · 27/02/2025 16:58

Also, this website has some good advice: www.educateagainsthate.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Incels-A-guide-for-those-teaching-Year-10-and-above-1-1.pdf

Holdonforsummer · 27/02/2025 16:59

If you think he is becoming radicalised and could commit any violence due to his beliefs, you could refer him to the Prevent team.

Scrubberdubber · 27/02/2025 17:28

EnchantedForestNearTheRiver · 27/02/2025 16:42

** Aren't you a peach? would you face your own son with and tell him he sounds like a weirdo and an incel? A vulnerable lad barely out of his teens with Autism struggling to fit in socially that's being groomed elicits no sympathy from you at all just hate and anger because that's exactly what's coming from your post. If this were a young woman going through the same thing is that the advice you would give?
There a lots of women on MN who have been hurt and abused by men but you need to be careful how you project your anger on to all men. @OP is looking for help for her ds not destructive advice to kill the last shred of trust he's got in humanity.

Yes I would. Because he is an incel and it is weird and not ok. I wouldn’t want him to be seen as the weirdo at college going on about this, and if I didn’t tell him, someone else would.

It doesn’t mean I wouldn't offer support with what’s caused this. But I wouldn’t be listening to this stuff. And I’d be making sure he couldn’t access this stuff from my router as well.

He's autistic. I don't mean this as an excuse I mean it as a reason. He has probably been told his whole life growing up that he is "a weirdo" hence why he has become isolated and fell for this online nonsense. You really think his own mother being another person in the world to tell him he's a weirdo is going to help?

Treeinthesky · 27/02/2025 17:32

Tell him to earn a lot of money and he will meet lots of women

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