Struggling with the constant tension between DH & DD

[alwaysanticipating]

Regular mumsnetter, NC for this because, even for Mumsnet, it feels like a lot of personal info about my marriage and family life. I know that not everyone thinks it's a good idea to ask for personal advice from strangers but I've read a lot of sensible wisdom on here over the years and I'm posting because I'd like some objective views on the situation between DH & DD. It's really hard to speak to friends/family about this because I'd feel it was disloyal to DH to talk about my concerns behind his back with people in RL who have relationships with him. I'm not saying I've never done that - I've definitely overshared plenty of times, which I really regret now. I'm going to try hard to be balanced in how I explain the situation and I'd very much appreciate honest and compassionate responses because I'm finding the difficulties with DD & DH are really affecting my relationship with DH. It's going to be quite long because I'm trying not to drip-feed.

My oldest DC is 17. She has ADHD and is quite chaotic. She's pretty rubbish at helping out at home and needs a lot of cajoling to get her to do basic chores. She can be a bit unkind to DC2. Her mood is quite up and down and there are often daily dramas where she's lost something and totally freaks out or gets v wound up massively overthinking a text exchanges and needs talking down.

But, she is also brilliant fun, very observant about people, and can be really thoughtful and kind. She has a lovely, close-knit group of friends and has very good relationships with adults in her life generally - gets on well with teachers, other adult family members etc She goes out a bit i.e. not one of the cool kids but occasionally invited to parties, and has definitely experimented with alcohol a bit in the past year but has always stuck to curfews, will have one or two drinks but has never to our knowledge been drunk etc. Despite the chaos & missing of deadlines etc she does v well at school, excellent GCSE results, doing well at A-levels and has an extra-curricular interest (that will prob end up being her career) that she does at a national level.

The issue is this: DH has, for a very long time, seemed very down on her and critical of her. He describes her as being 'very negative' and 'uncurious', he feels she is selfish and unkind to DC2. He gets incredibly frustrated by her lack of organisation, the constant forgetting things and being late. He finds DC2 much easier to relate to, and feels I pander to DD and don't let her deal with the consequences of her own actions.

DD has told me that she feels nothing she ever does will be good enough for DH and that he always seems disappointed in her. I always counter this with how proud he is of her but she is obviously picking up on how he actually feels.

Discussions between me and DH about this often end in an argument because he feels I'm being defensive and I feel he's over-critical of DD who is not perfect and a standard teenager in lots of ways but also wonderful in lots of other ways.
DH also feels that I get overly emotional about things, that i'm defensive about any criticism and that he gets 'shouted down' a lot. I'm sure it's true that I'm defensive at times. I'm really trying hard not to be but partly it comes from feeling I need to defend myself and carve out boundaries because DH is a very strong character and always pushes firmly for what he thinks is the right way to do things. We had another chat about it all this morning and I did manage not to get upset or be defensive but it's left me feeling really sad.

A lot of what he sees as serious flaws in DD's character, I see as standard teen stuff that will pass. But I don't feel I can see the situation clearly any more. At times I feel absolutely furious with him for being so negative about her and not appreciating all the good things, and I worry a lot about the damage this could do to her self-esteem. But then at other times I think maybe I'm just blinded by love for my DC and not able to be realistic about her flaws and behaviour. Mostly though I'm just exhausted with being stuck between the two of them moaning about each other, and it's getting harder and harder to talk about any of the concerns I do have with DD (in the way parents do from time to time) because I'm worried it will just fuel his believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with her.

For context, I'd say I have really good relationships with both DC. They couldn't be more different but I love spending time with both of them, we have open chats and they tell me stuff about their lives and what is bothering them.

Sorry it's so long and a bit rambly. I'd really appreciate any thoughts and advice.

From what you have said I suspect that your DH may be too rigid to change how he sees and relates his daughter. All you can do is try to address with him the need to treat her with greater understanding and love as you have explained it so eloquently here. If he can and does soften his ways, wonderful. If not, try to protect your daughter as best you can by supporting her emotionally and not denying her feelings (it sounds as though you are already doing a great job of this). It puts you in a really difficult and draining position though and I think it might affect how you feel about your DH.

No, typical teens are not 'unkind'. Nothing about unkindness is typical.

You need to sit down calmly with your DH and tell him you are genuinely not saying these things to have a go, but are genuinely concerned he could be ruining their future relationship. As someone else pointed out, DD1 is almost an adult now. Parents behaviour can have lasting impacts, you only need to read many threads on here. I had to speak to my ex when DS was around 12 about the way he treated DS. He was genuinely mortified when I told him what DS said and thought. He did change the way he spoke to DS.

I’ve not read the whole thread but an often overlooked symptom of adhd is emotional dysregulation. We often feel emotions much stronger than others and struggle to manage them. So if her sibling annoys her it’s the end of the world (at that time). Then there is rejection sensitive dysphoria which means that she is hyper sensitive to her father’s criticism and will imagine that he’s criticising even when he’s not. But, at the end of the day it’s on him to unconditionally love their person she IS not who he wanted her to be.

DC2 will want to borrow something that belongs to neither of them e.g. me or DH, mostly that will be appealing because DD has had use of that item and has it in their room. DD will say 'no, i'm using that', even is she isn't. Sibling will then say 'well can I use your xx instead then' and the answer will be categorically no. This will escalate into a massive argument and I'll have to intervene, taking the item out of circulation altogether.

This did jump out at me. If the 'thing' isn't DD's then she doesn't have a say over who uses it. Why do you remove the thing altogether rather than just telling DD to let sib use it? That does seem unfair to me.

Monitor, and intervene as necessary, in the relationship between siblings. Your DH relationship with DD is down to him not you.
You cannot mother and father her. Don't try. Save yourself hours of angst.
If their relationship is not as good as he would like, it's up to him to fix it, not you. Do not make excuses for him, if he needs help he can ask. Doing everything and being everything to everyone is exhausting and impossible.

One of your H’s concerns about DD is ‘negativity’ yet he complains to you about DD & you say he leaves the action ‘down to you’.

He is focusing on ways he would like DD to change, but could look to himself & what he can do to help her, improve his relationship with her, and help you and DC2z

His possible autism is a huge deal if it’s impacting on the family: not good for him not to engage with the possibility and not to find out about your and DDs’ ADHD.

The borrowing example is interesting!

You did seem to side with DC1, since you seem OK with the item ‘living’ in DC1’s room & DC2 didn’t get to use it.

DH & I expect borrowed items to be returned soon after use. To the place in ‘communal’ space. If it’s something like technology, eg a laptop & both wanted to use it at a similar time & couldn’t reach a solution would expect them to come to one of us for adjudication! 😆

He has a major parenting problem.

My mother was like this - disappointed in me, never proud of me. It’s a source of great humour amongst friends and family because I am an extremely high achiever. It hurts me to this day.

It’s one thing to provide feedback and boundaries to help children develop skills that will help them in life. It’s absolutely another for a child to know she disappoints her father in general and he is not proud of her. He is absolutely, massively wrong to let her see this and needs professional help to work on why he feels it.

It's not flaws, your child has ADHD and has a different brain. He can't shame her into being less sensitive and less forgetful. He sounds horrible, your daughter probably already feels crap about these things herself without him adding to it. Also, don't let anyone tell you that you're too sensitive, stick to what you believe in and keep your boundaries. Have you ever considered you have ADHD as well? Apparently there's a strong genetic link. (I have ADHD btw).

Edit: sorry I jumped ahead and didn't see your update about having ADHD too! I was also going to suggest medication but I see she's already on some. What is she on can she possibly try a different one? Also hormones play a massive part with women with ADHD! The worst times are apparently puberty, post-natally, menopause and just before / during our cycle! X

This makes me really sad. The thought of a parent not appreciating their child and only seeing the negative.

Your poor daughter, and poor you - this must be heartbreaking for you and I'm sorry it's the situation in your family 😭

Thank you for your posts - they are all appreciated, truly.

I had a very long conversation with DH about this last night. It was really painful for both of us but we're in a better place today. I feel I've done everything I can now to make him see how important it is for him to build bridges now and try to see things from her perspective / make her feel valued etc. He feels I'm exaggerating his negative spin on her and I'm open to that possibility too. One way or another I'm very hopeful that he will make a real effort now because I think I got across how important it is for all of us but most importantly for her.

This thread has been really useful - the combination of having constructive ideas for moving forward e.g. education around ADHD, possibility of counselling, working together to support her and agree on a way forward and the way that some of you vocalised the damage that can be done to a teen's self esteem in this sort of scenario definitely helped shape the conversation.

My DS between 15 and 17 was very difficult. He is also suspected to have ADHD, but he didn't want to get tested/me pay for it. I offered.

he is now 19 and is wonderful again. My OH (not his dad) really struggled with DS during this time and OH had his own issues going on at that time too, it was harD, but things are so much better now.

Now... the kids are fighting, and your 17 is slamming doors - why? why are you allowing that? Tell her she slams a door again and you will take her door off its hinges for a week.

My psychologist did this with her dd and it worked. Your DD can have her issues - which are medicated - so she needs to learn that tantrums and kicking off are not the productive way of dealing with anything. Just because you sympathise doesn't mean she has a green light to behave like this in the family home.

It sounds like you ARE making an awful lot of concessions to someone who IS ruling the roost through her own choices on how she deals with day to day ordinary frustrations that ARE in her domain to fix.

Our job as parents is to give boundaries and show our kids how to manage life better. If she needs help with routine and putting things in consistent places, you need to show her and remind her to do it. Have places for everything and be firm on this.

This is not a DH way vs your way, the way to fixing this is somewhere in the middle, but you have to stop allowing your DD to kick off like this without consequences.

She will have to learn how to live with people when she leaves home. Has she got plans to go to Uni - if so she is in for a horrible shock if she thinks she can carry on like this.

As a parent of an ADHD teen, I am so grateful to you for this post. All I see over and over from adults with ADHD is that their parents did it all wrong and should have done this and should have done that and everything they say must be perfect with zero accountability for their own behaviour - simply yeah well I have ADHD so I'm allowed to behave in a way that impacts others negatively.

@alwaysanticipating "He feels I'm exaggerating his negative spin on her"

This is a defensive and reactive statement that indicates he's still not really listening. He's more interested in defending himself than listening and taking on board that he could improve.

By contrast, from your posts, it seems that you consistently show willingness to listen and moderate your behavior.

The problem when you have one defensive person and another who is willing to listen and change is that the listener often accepts unacceptable behavior in the interests of "compromise" and peace. Meanwhile, the defensive person may put a temporary bandaid on their behavior, but they will eventually go back to their offensive behavior in some shape or form, because they have not changed the fundamental attitudes that lead to that behavior.

His comment "He feels I'm exaggerating his negative spin on her" is also disrespectful to you. Women are often told they're 'exaggerating', "unreasonable", "too demanding", "I'm doing my best damnit you're never satisfied", "hysterical", and "emotional"*. It's a way of dismissing the validity of what you're saying and undercutting you.

Don't accept that, OP. What did he say about therapy?

*It should be noted that people who call women emotional are generally very emotional themselves in the form of anger, defensiveness, reactivity, and immaturity.

Haven't RTFT but ADHD household here.

I think counselling for your DH would be helpful... it's all about loving the child you have. Obviously that's on him though.

I'd be reassuring him that this phase will be over before you know it, and that whether you do, your first job as parents is to lead your DCs into living an independent life.

So your DD has a hobby that she does at national level that she could pursue as a career?! She excels at school? What more could any parents possibly want? I know you know this.

Your DH won't want to eat humble pie or lose face with anyone about this.

I suggest you discuss and agree with him how you're all going to co-exist together going forward. People with ADHD are IME brilliant at a 'walk and talk'. Suggest to him that he regularly walks and talks with DD. And your other DC. Make sure V you're still having family meals together a couple of times a week and talking about the ups and downs in all of your lives. No-one in your family is too old for a family movie or a game of cards. I know you shouldn't have to, but do encourage and facilitate that bonding time so that there's plenty of basis there for solid relationships for all of you and not just picking at each other.

This is such normal teenage bickering, though. Yes, it’s annoying but it’s standard sibling behaviour. Siblings argue, wind each other up, covet each other’s stuff, compete with each other. It can be obnoxious but most teen siblings will do this kind of thing at times.

I think that is absolutely typical behaviour between siblings and sometimes continues into adulthood.
You and DH have got a bit polarised by the sound of it. If you could agree with him more when he expresses concerns about her chaotic behaviour, and encourage him to say what he likes and loves about her, you might become more of a team. Family therapy might help with this.

I think autistic dads can often be poor parents of autistic/neurodivergent children - not always obviously.
They will spend periods where they’re oblivious while you do all the hard work parenting, then when they feel the effects of the child’s difference or behaviour, they can’t cope and resort to aggression and their own rigid, often cliched thinking.
Its a hard road and I think because of our children’s’ vulnerability, when the dad is unreasonable, we need to put protecting the child first.

Thanks, folks - reading and taking on board all these comments. Appreciate a lot the fact that a group of strangers are taking the time to read and think about what I'm saying.

In answer to a few of the comments / suggestions:

• We do regular films and eat together as a family most evenings. Games less often but we do enjoy them when we manage to play them.
• I love the 'walk and talk' idea.
• There are consequences when either DC behaves badly e.g. slamming doors (though I don't think we've ever thought of taking door of hinges, not a bad idea!) but we prob aren't consistent enough with either of them on this.
• DH isn't aggressive in his attitude but it's fair to say he does have a fixed mindset about a lot of things

I'm also worried that I've painted an overly negative picture of DH. He has said and done things in the context of DD that I've found very disappointing and upsetting but I know he loves her very much and I'm very anxious this morning that I've been too critical of him without seeing clearly enough the stuff I'm getting wrong. It's a familiar pattern for me, the building up to saying something and then panicking afterwards about having said what I think, although this time I do think it was right to have the conversation. I did make it clear to him that I'm very much open to hearing from him the things that he feels I'm getting wrong.

It's totally possible that I have been too soft on DD at times, and too hard at other times. Partly that stems from me trying to keep everything on an even keel i.e. when I feel DH is being very hard on her, I end up being softer so that she doesn't feel attacked from all sides, but then when he talks to me anxiously in about how badly he thinks things are going with her, my own anxiety about her ramps up and at times I end up making unreasonable demands / putting pressure on her. I know none of this is good, which is why I started the thread to try and get some perspective and clarity. I hate confrontation and found the conversation last night really stressful (as I'm sure DH did), have got the worst headache today and am struggling to work.

OP you absolutely did the right thing talking to your DH. If the conversation has made you retrospectively anxious then something else may be going on (to do with long-established patterns, who knows). But nothing you have described sounds unreasonable, quite the opposite, you sound very insightful and thoughtful and you are doing the best you can for DD and your family. Don't be hard on yourself!

I have ADHD too and it was rubbish as a teen

However, I think at 17, the onus needs to be on her to find her own coping mechanisms.

I really learned these properly for myself once I went to university and there were consequences for things like missed deadlines and lost things.

I once locked myself out of my room and had to walk barefoot down the road to security - never forgot my keys again.

It almost sounds like you're too involved? I think it is good for your DD to have support but unless she does experience consequences, she won't learn. Yes it's harder for us ADHD folk, it really is, but we still need to learn those things because however hard it is for us to remember our keys, no one else is going to do that for us forever

I also think some of these things really don't have anything to do with ADHD

Like this needs a lot of cajoling to get her to do basic chores sounds like pandering? Need clear consequences not cajoling for not doing chores in my view

And I agree with the PP who asked why you take an item out of circulation when DD1 doesn't want to share it - if it doesn't belong to DD1 and she isn't using it, I think she should hand it over, that isn't ADHD, it kind of does sound like unkindness

Thanks for your kind post @Elkmoor

@Febnewbie I think that's a v fair point, I probably am too involved. I suppose I feel despite having insight in the ADHD (which I didn't have the benefit of as a teen) I don't seem to have managed to help her develop good habits and am trying to do that now before she leaves home. But I 100% agree with you that some stuff won't sort itself out until she gets to uni and there's no-one to bail her out. Had to laugh at your locking out story, I've done that so many times and actually had to walk to my neighbour in socks just this week so clearly I've not learned my lesson.

Re the chores, if I'm really honest, neither DC are good at this (although DD is probably the worst). The lion's share does always seem to fall to me, and I'm not consistent about demanding that people help because sometimes I just can't be bothered to nag and end up doing it myself for a quiet life. I'd love to know what other people consequences other people use for getting their kids to pull their weight.

A few people have picked up on the sharing example, which is fair enough. The borrowed item had unofficially been on long-term loan to DD (because I don't use it) and so I felt that sibling was just coveting it in order to wind DD up and thought it'd be best to take it out of circulation. My instinct generally is that if a 'third-party item' is causing arguments it's easier to just take it out of the equation. But I accept that in that instance it probably wasn't the right call. We were all under a bit of stress trying to leave the house in a hurry and it was a snap decision.

I suppose the link between ADHD and the cajoling on chores is that she is always behind on everything. So, I know that if I insist she helps clear up after dinner (rather than, say, just putting her own plate and cutlery in the dishwasher) when I know that she's got x hours of homework still to get through, she'll end up getting to bed even later (with a bigger knock-on effect for the next day). So fairly often I'll let both DC get away with doing a minimal amount, and just do the job myself rather than have the one who is better at doing homework on time be 'punished' by having to help out more.