Buying a puppy. Breeder applying pressure for payment.

[fandangored]

Breeder applying pressure for payment and asking for transfer or cash payment BEFORE viewing day with puppy at 4 weeks..?

Already paid a £200 pre reserve fee!!!

Should I continue or red flag and run?!

OP has this woman said the mother of the puppies will be there at the viewing too so you can meet her? If the mother is not there, that's a huge red flag too.

@fandangored a good breeder will never ask for money before even viewing or before the birth. some ask for a deposit after you have chosen but it is wiser to wait till the collection day before paying in full. a good breeder will accept this and will always be able to sell the puppies if you change your mind.

KC Assured breeder here.....a reputable breeder would never ask for money up front, and the cash element implies that they don't want a paper trail (ie no tax) so it's untraceable.

Are the parents health tested? Cavaliers are known for having significant health issues and have health tests that are mandatory for KC breeding - regardless of the puppy being a mix (yuk) it should still have the health tests done. I cannot stress this enough, I bought a pug years and years ago who I thought was from health tested parents and it turned out she wasn't, and then she died at 13 months old from an inherited disease so please save yourself a load of heartache and do your homework.

The bare minimum a puppy should be sold with is vaccination, microchip and insurance - insurance is free for the breeder so there's literally no reason it shouldn't have it. The mum should be available, dad maybe not because they've used a stud.
Even if it's not KC registered, if they've got pedigree parents then you should be able to have a pedigree (all a pedigree is is a family tree with the names of all it's relatives). I sell my puppies to homes where I've had chance to get to know the new owners and their puppy packs included a weeks worth of food, bed, bowls, health record, certificates of everything (parents health testing and a copy of the KC standard so they have record that it's all been done), pedigrees, care sheet, contract, toys, etc....

Personally I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. 5 stars means absolutely zero, and in 35 years of dog showing and breeding I've never once advertised a puppy, and especially not on Facebook. I'll also add that I only ever breed when I want a puppy for myself and I sell the rest, so it's not very often but I want them to be perfect when I do! Good breeders care immensely and aren't breeding for money.

Also, go on the KC website and go through the breeds - you'd be amazed at how many dogs are allergy friendly. Crufts is in less than a month, you can see all the breeds on the TV and get and idea of what you like the look of too.

This is not a reputable breeder. So many red flags OP, I'd leave it.

The biggest flag to me is her saying not to take the puppy to the vet in the first 72 hours for a check. You should be taking the puppy to the vet as soon as you are able for vaccinations and a general check-up.

You say something about this feels off, it all feels off to me. It maybe that she has had "timewasters" in the past, my bet would be it is more people being spooked by her attitude, and she is now doubling down.

Either way, the putting you off a vet check is an absolute no from me.

If you feel something is off, don’t proceed.

Go to a rescue centre and explain you want a calm dog that is good with kids etc.

I just knew this dog was going to have poo in it somewhere!

Everything the breeder has proposed is reasonable. It’s clearly coming with its first injection having been done.

I totally agree with her meeting your children .
The breeder sounds like she knows what she is doing.

You are being unreasonable not taking cash on the day.

Breeders often don’t give out there address prior to a couple of days before viewing to prevent puppy theft so I am with her on that as well.

If she has a waiting list, she might consider you to be APITA so be prepared for the breeder to ditch you and if that’s the case she should return your deposit.

Please don’t pay silly money as the bottom line is…..
it’s a mongrel .

I need to try get my money back!!

£200

My email!!

"I’ve been doing some research and am not happy to release any money until I’ve seen puppy in-person.

I would happily release money post viewing puppy and papers, but not before. Same as buying anything; you only release money once viewed/seen and are happy with what you are purchasing. Lots of info on this on the dogs trust and similar sites.

Should this be a problem, then I am happy to discuss over the phone/video-call. I have already sent you the £200 pre-reserve fee and full info from my end showing I am a committed buyer.

Can you send me a copy of your Puppy Contract as an attachment/PDF via email for me to look over?

Also as part of the agreement / contract can I ask you include a window of 72 hours to have pup checked out at my own vets to make sure he is healthy and get a full refund if not? Again, this is common practice.

We can’t afford to make a mistake, we’ve been looking for a long while.

I hope you understand this as a buyer."

Have You agreed/signed a contract?
were you aware when paying it , it would be non returnable?

Why did I immediately think this was going to be a dodgy cross breed….🤦‍♀️
OP it matters not one jot whether mum and dad are KC registered, there’s no such thing as a decent breeder of Cavaliers (multiple, MULTIPLE health issues) and a poodle (no such thing as a hypoallergenic dog despite social media telling you otherwise). Cross them together and there’s no way of predicting what you’ll get tbh.
Two more massive red flags. No insurance and her telling you not to take the pup to your own vet. This is an absolute no-no. Why would you not want an independent assessment of the money you’ve just spent/thrown away?
I’d be running from this set-up. And looking for a different breed (cross cavs are not breeds - they’re a genetic lottery).

Blimey, have you done any research at all OP? Every cavapoo I know is bonkers.

I don't actually think the breeder sounds dodgy, and I'd be very interested to see the message you sent her first. She has obviously had time wasters and people who have let her down last minute, putting her in the position of trying to find a good home for a puppy past the age most people want them from.

When I got my girl, I gave the breeder £100 on viewing day after I had seen her (and she secretly approved me) then gave her the balance after I had picked her up to take her home.

I think it's a good thing she wants to see the kids as well, she wants to make sure pup will be treated properly. Don't forget, as much as you are viewing the pup, she is viewing you. My breeder told me she had a few times decided the potential owners weren't the right fit for her puppies and not gone ahead with it.

Hard agree. I can’t believe people are falling for that.

I’ve been doing some research and am not happy to release any money until I’ve seen puppy in-person.
I would happily release money post viewing puppy and papers, but not before. Same as buying anything; you only release money once viewed/seen and are happy with what you are purchasing. Lots of info on this on the dogs trust and similar sites.

Apologies if i've missed something, but isn't this exactly what the breeder was suggesting?

the op is happy to pay once she's seen the dog.
the breeder wants cash on the day, or bank transfer before the meeting.

My girl had had a full vet check so I didn't take her to the vets until her second jab which I think is entirely normal. She did however, come with a months insurance giving me time to sort my own insurance out. She also came with a blanket from mum and the food she had been weaned on. All pretty standard I think.

Have not rtft. Get one from a shelter

People who are looking to make a cash purchase of £500, I would say.

I can see this from both sides. I think she's become very defensive as she feels undermined by the questions you've asked her in your late night (?) email.

The bank transfer prior to arrival for the final payment (upon collection) of the pup wouldn't bother me. My breeder also said the same but it was pointless anyway as we ended up spending at least an hour there, with my children playing with the other pups and us drinking coffee, so plenty of time for her to check it had cleared. The earlier payment needing to be paid prior though seems unnecessary, seeing as you're not taking the dog anyway so if you don't pay she hasn't lost anything.

The vet thing... I get where she's coming from but she's worded it terribly and left herself open to looking dodgy. She should also be offering 4 weeks insurance.

Just to say if I were to breed, I'd welcome the interrogation (as long as it wasn't accusatory or rude) as there are far too many people buying puppies that aren't doing their due diligence. I'd want my pups to go to people that had researched thoroughly and questioned me accordingly.

Has anyone posted the article from The Times?

https://www.thetimes.com/article/4d131805-4d64-40e6-9bef-1b5962664248?shareToken=feca2a2e0a1ead0147b3ddbe95196c5a

I bought my dog in pretty much the circumstances you describe. Holding deposit paid when met the parents. A chunk on viewing, balance on collection. Followed normal pattern for vets. Clean bill of health, five now and never had any issues, really solid family friendly dog, which is exactly what we wanted.

This. It all sounds normal and sensible.

I think she is fine - 200 deposit on a pedigree dog is likely to be a small percentage and 700 total is nearer the mark. I would check out her registrations etc and as she says don't tar them all with the same brush it must get tiresome. If you don't agree with Breeder buying then fine, go to the rescue. We didn't have to pay any pre deposit BUT we were friends of friends as well as we asked around for recommendations.

There are alot of people that puppy surf so I get the viewing deposit thing myself. And I am sure they get alot of people like yourself and its tiring explaining yourself again and again. BUT that is also part of the job. Breeders are dog people not people people so you have to give them a bit of leeway!!

The OP is happy to pay after seeing the puppy.

The breeder would like the payment after the appointment where the potential owner sees the puppy

Surely they both want the same thing?

As much as I dislike it, puppy breeding is a business and it (mostly) seems like she’s going about it in a business like manner. She wants to meet your kids so that she can be certain the pup is going to a good and loving home, she’ll probably also want to tell them how to hold and care for pup to avoid any injury or accidents. The red flag for me is no insurance. My youngest dog is from an accidental litter and is a proper mutt (Dad KC reg but Mum crossbreed). Even he came with either 2 or 4 weeks insurance through PetPlan that the breeder had taken out to cover the whole litter. This also gives you time to shop around and arrange your own insurance. Most insurance companies won’t pay out if something happens during the first X days of the policy so the pup is still covered by the litter insurance in the meantime.