Buying a puppy. Breeder applying pressure for payment.

[fandangored]

Breeder applying pressure for payment and asking for transfer or cash payment BEFORE viewing day with puppy at 4 weeks..?

Already paid a £200 pre reserve fee!!!

Should I continue or red flag and run?!

what absolute nonsense! All dogs are a 'lucky dip', you cant tell what an adult dog's temperament will be like from meeting a puppy. GOOD rescue centres will have taken time to get to know the dogs needing adoption & have tested them with other dogs etc. They will also make sure that you are a suitable owner, and try and match you with a dog that will fit into your circumstances. There are literally hundreds of abandoned dogs in rescue right now who were purchased as puppies. Puppies are quite destructive and need considerably more input & care than people realise, also all dogs have a teenage phase once they are out of puppyhood which can be challenging. I regularly see people who bought puppies - with your rationale - who are stressed & struggling to control their dogs as they grow up (mostly cockerpoos btw, which look cute and fluffy & are supposedly anti-allergy, but are actually a pairing of 2 very high energy breeds). Getting a rescue dog is actually an extremely sensible option as the rescue will support you if you have difficulties.

With a cross breed you do not know what you are getting, I have a beautiful teddybear of a cavapoo, according to his paperwork he is a 'toy' cavapoo. He is also 15kg. He was a rescue (I got him at 5 months old through Doodle rescue) so never met his parents.

One of my daughters friends also bought a cavapoo after meeting him, her cavapoo looks to be 100% cavalier with no poodle traits at all. With a cross breed you just don't know what you are going to get.

We got him as a rescue as the original owner had buyer regret as puppies are hard work, they wee and poo everywhere, they chew clothes, hands, shoes, anything really. Our cavapoo is very clingy, we went from he would be crate trained to having him in our bed every night, as he cried when left alone.

We also discovered after we picked him up that some pet insurance companies will charge a premium for Cavapoo insurance as they are classed as designer dogs, this would despite me looking at what poodle cross insurance would cost before I called them to add him to our policy (we had a cat already insured with them)

Shelter dogs are not always easy to take on especially with small children in the house (not that pups are either I wouldn't do it with an U5 in the house if I am honest) but some families have specific needs as well as wants so whilst I would like to go shelter I haven't yet, maybe next one

"clingy" is the epitome of the Cavalier. If they could be any closer to you they'd be on the inside looking out.

(This bit isn't aimed at you btw) if you don't want a 'clingy' dog that will cry if you leave it, be constantly glued to you/underfoot, and have a high chance of separation anxiety, do not get anything with a Cavalier involved in it.. .they're literally bred to be clingy, they were carriage dogs meant for keeping the ladies warm and keeping them company.

As well as all the issues around cross-breeds, have you checked out the terms of this breeders licence? (She should quote her licence number and the licensing council.)

Many breeders of such crosses have dozens (some hundreds, genuinely) of breeding dogs, in far less salubrious conditions than they advertise in cute puppy photos. If this breeder is licensed for anything approaching double figures, I wouldn't be touching them with a bargepole anyway.

A vet check is just a once over. Ask for the health tests for both sire and dam?

The kennel club and British veterinary association recommend the following tests:
Poodle (Toy, Miniature, and Standard)

1. Hip Dysplasia Screening – Recommended for Standard Poodles (BVA Hip Score).
2. Elbow Dysplasia Screening – Recommended for Standard Poodles (BVA Elbow Score).
3. Eye Testing (BVA Eye Scheme) – Covers Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) and other inherited eye conditions.
4. Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA-PRCD DNA Test) – A genetic test for all Poodle varieties.
5. Degenerative Myelopathy (DM DNA Test) – Standard Poodles only.
6. Von Willebrand’s Disease (vWD Type 1 DNA Test) – A bleeding disorder affecting Miniature and Standard Poodles.
7. Neonatal Encephalopathy (NE DNA Test) – A severe neurological disorder in Standard Poodles.
8. Patella Luxation Screening – Recommended for Toy and Miniature Poodles.

Cavalier King Charles Spaniel

1. Mitral Valve Disease (MVD Screening) – Heart testing for early signs of heart disease, a common issue in the breed.
2. Syringomyelia (SM MRI Scan) – A neurological condition common in the breed.
3. Eye Testing (BVA Eye Scheme) – Screening for inherited eye disorders.
4. Curly Coat Dry Eye Syndrome (CCDE DNA Test) – A genetic condition in Cavaliers.
5. Episodic Falling Syndrome (EFS DNA Test) – A neurological disorder affecting Cavaliers.
6. Hip Dysplasia Screening (BVA Hip Score) – Less common but recommended.
7. Patella Luxation Screening – To check for kneecap dislocation.

If they haven’t had the health tests, I wouldn’t go through with it. It’s a mixed breed already so not ideal and one without health testing (particularly the King Charles spaniel part because they are known to have severe heart conditions) and whilst many would say “it’s a puppy, they all come with health risks”, I know someone who bought a cheaper puppy and has to date, paid out in excess of £15,000 in vet bills. Her newer and more expensive/ well bred dog with all health testing was double the initial outlay but hasn’t cost her any money in vet bills so far.

There is the financial element but also the emotional element when these dogs pass away younger than they should have!

Thats not to say you might get lucky and they live a long happy life but why risk it?

Also, just to add to my above comment, I do think you sound overly suspicious OP and you are right to be as there are so many dodgy breeders around (not saying this one is).

I went full on detective on my puppy search! She's also a poodle cross so I knew to be diligent but to be fair, a purebred KC registered dog shouldn't lull anybody into a false sense of security.

I ended up buying from somebody who would have red flags all over her to many - she's a first time breeder, so not licensed due to not needing to be and shock horror, advertised on Pets4Homes! She bred from her much pampered dog and kept a pup herself. She raised the pups meticulously and although she planned to have one more litter, the whole experience proved a lot harder than she thought so I'm not sure that's happening now! Sire and dam both had all necessary tests which was non negotiable to me.

Back in 2014 when we got our cocker spaniel, the prices were different - £650. We paid £50 in cash when we viewed her and £600 in cash when we collected her. All seemed reasonable. (The dog is good and well, just had a good chase with another dog, despite her age, and the breeder is still in business. So wanting cash on the day is not a sign of something shady). The previewing fee is a new thing, but it might have evolved in recent years as demand shot up in covid times.

There are quite a few cavapoos out there, I hear about a cavapoo here and there and it’s not like they have such multiple issues that they all drop dead in the first year. My builder just yesterday showed me photos of his 8 year old Cavashon (Cavalier x Bichon Frise), alive and strong, no issues. And I had a poodle who lived till the age of 13.

I think there is an element of panic, but if you have completely gone off the dog and breeder, you might lose the £200. It’s more difficult to sell puppies past 8-11 weeks, there are socialisation windows and things like that, so breeders need to line up buyers ideally and if you have people deciding between various breeders until the last moment, breeders need to find other buyers super quickly. It’s a very time-sensitive industry, you cannot leave puppies on shelves indefinitely:-) So there are these various reserve fees as a result. If the £200 is refundable, ask her to refund. After all, you paid it early in the puppy’s life, so the breeder has a lot of time still. If not refundable, raise it with the bank as a chargeback, but it’s in the bank’s discretion.

Op I know absolutely nothing about dogs or breeders so forgive me for adding my 2c. Just wanted to say she sounds aggressive and unpleasant and not like someone I'd want to deal with. Getting a puppy is a massive deal and for your sake and for the puppy's sake you need someone you can work with.

It's not up to her when you go to the vet. Also, I wouldn't trust someone who avoids answering questions. What if you have questions after you have got the puppy? If she isn't even willing to answer them now she definitely won't be helpful later.

Her dig about you emailing her in the night was nasty and highly unprofessional.

Cash on the day IS after OP has met the breeder & puppy. I don't think OP is pressured into paying at all ... bank transfers can be processed in seconds or up to an hour, so the breeder is right to ask upfront. Anyway, all this can be discussed in person rather than getting the knickers in a twist over emails!
Meeting the whole family and getting a contract once OP picks up the puppy seems reasonable, especially if they are first time dog owners.

This thread is the typical MN idealistic view of buying a puppy!

She has been burnt by time wasters. If this breed is popular then if you make a big old thing about this then she will just sell to someone else.

As an aside time wasters are the bane of everyone's life! I am not saying you are one but I tried to sell a very good coniditon sofa once before. Never never again. Such entitled behaviour from buyers - one turned up without a car. She had hoped that her friend would driver her there in his van but he let her down so she just turned up anyway to 'have a look'.

Just why??

The eventual buyer turned up with his 8 stone wife and himself. I told him there was a set of stairs. He said he forgot and would I help move it? I am not of an age or weight where I am able to move big pieces of furniture.

This is nonsense. A reputable breeder will keep you up to date throughout the process. We’re getting our puppy in March and we had updates during the pregnancy, and now regular photos etc. A breeder isn’t too busy to do this, considering you are usually planning to part with a large amount of money.

This ^ The moral highground on this certainly doesn't rest with the adoption centres. Frankly my experience of such places has only been bad, the first time with RSPCA and the second with somewhere far more reputable. Still completely rubbish on their responsibilities. Very strong on the adopters' of course.

Also I agree with listening to your gut. She wants your money (and more money) before you have any chance to check her out. Who would do that? You know who would. No way you'd be getting any sort of refund without court action.
I speak as someone who has been burned twice by "dog breeders".

To be clear I have also had a very good experience with a dog breeder and would choose a good one over an adoption racket any day.

I bought our cocker on Pets4Homes in 2014. As I mentioned in my post a few minutes ago, still going strong and the breeder is still in business. KC registration (where the breed is recognised, sadly not yet for crosses) is a good way to separate chaff from wheat. I’m actually not sure where else to look for puppies, other than Pets4Homes! I’ve heard of champdogs, but it didn’t seem very active at the time.

Presumably the dog is costing you £700. This is not a lot of money for a puppy these days and that would set my alarm bells going. I know it’s a cross breed but it’s a purposeful, in demand mix. Looking at this mix on pets4homes, £700 is bottom price and there’s a noticeable difference in the appearance of the mother and puppies and environment they’re photographed in, compared to the puppies that are £1000+. I would be looking at the adverts for the more expensive dogs, even if you don’t intend to buy one, and compare what health tests, insurance and puppy packs you get in comparison to the one you have applied for. I’d also be looking at how often the mother has been put through this process.

bloody hell - £2500 for a cross breed 😱. I paid less than that for a fully health tested (parents), KC registered, pedigree pup from a breeder who has shown and worked her dogs for 30+yrs and always has a waiting list...... who only breeds when she wants a pup to keep for herself.

The latter is crucial to me. If the breeder is not keeping one of the pups then I would walk away, you want breeders who are personally invested in the health of the breed.

Might’ve known it was going to be a poodle cross breed. That’s your first mistake, right there. She’s in it for the money and that’s why she wants cash…

You find out it's reactive because it barks. Then you work on the reactivity. How does a dog on a leash bite anyone on a bike? People shouldn't have dogs if they don't know how to control them.

I agree with you @Lovelysummerdays

My breeder did have a website though where she posts all her litters and all her puppy families could upload photos.

In my search I wanted both sire and dam to be hip/elbow scored (particularly important due to the breeds in my cross and as I wanted a large dog). This did rule out about 90% of litters on Pets4Homes so narrowed my search down somewhat 😅

I actually almost discounted my breeder as she hadn't used the best pictures on her advert. The puppies were shown on concrete and it made detective me think they were kept outside constantly in some dingy kennels. Luckily I gave her the benefit of the doubt as that wasn't the case at all!

I don't know anything about dogs but I can tell you that I wouldn't be paying any money for anything to someone who was that rude to me.

How have you paid the reservation fee ?

be prepared to have lost that - esp as you don't currently have the breeders address ?!!!

where did you see the advert ?

the whole thing could be a scam !!!

RUN !

then read all the replies on your thread fully. make notes and come back for further advice on how to buy a mongrel puppy - as that is what you are buying.

btw what are you going to do if puppy turns out not to be ' non allergic ' what are your plans....

This is the most succinct and helpful response l have seen on this thread.

Facebook does not show credibility for anything, it is not what it was intended before. I’d also be wary of anyone asking “cash only”.

Normal OP, when we bought our dog, we paid a holding deposit before we had seen her. Then they asked cash on viewing day (part payment not full). I asked to do this by bank transfer so that I have evidence for pet insurance, they were fine with this but asked for me to do that prior to the day if not bringing cash. If you pay by bank transfer, you also have security in being able
to claim as fraud should things go wrong (depending on bank and type of card you are using).
So exciting. I have wonderful memories of my DCs being beside themselves when we collected her. They kept asking if we were really going to keep her. They had been fully involved in the process of finding her, they just couldn’t believe she was ours. They still love her very much (but don’t do much of the dog duties (other than playing with her), they love to play hide the dog treat with her 💕
Right know she is snoozing on my lap and has let off a stink bomb. Thanks 🐶!

This is our experience too. We waited till youngest children was nearly five and live in the countryside, always someone here, enclosed garden. No chance of getting a rescue dog. No kids, no chance.

I do get that they err on the side of caution as worried about potential for dogs biting children. I just think it’s possibly too risk averse and that dog owners can and will make safety judgements for themselves , no unsupervised contact, safe space for dog etc, training children to recognise a dogs body language to know if it’s keen to say hello or play or would rather be left alone. Common sense stuff.