Buying a puppy. Breeder applying pressure for payment.

[fandangored]

Breeder applying pressure for payment and asking for transfer or cash payment BEFORE viewing day with puppy at 4 weeks..?

Already paid a £200 pre reserve fee!!!

Should I continue or red flag and run?!

My son has been waiting ages poor thing

He is 6, you do not buy a puppy for a small child.
I'm sorry OP but this has disaster all over it.

This 1000%
I just feel sorry for the puppy.
a 6 year old boy 'wanting a puppy' is NOT a good basis for getting a puppy or a dog..
HE will not be the one who feeds it, cleans up after it (especially the puppy stage), has his sofas/cushions/etc chewed to pieces. He will not be the person who has to take the puppy-and the dog it grows into-for walks at least 2 times per day.
YOU OP are the person who will be doing ALL this. You don't sound as if you know much about puppies or dogs. Tbh you don't even sound as if YOU want one. As a family you ALL need to be committed to this as it will be a huge investment if time & money-for up to 18 years.
Will someone be at home most of the day for the dog? Leaving a puppy/dog alone all day is cruel and WILL cause it to develop stress related behavioural issues.
It's the puppy I feel sorry for. PLEASE don't be one of those vile, awful, stupid people who get a puppy and then abandon it because they realise too late how much money time & effort is needed to keep a puppy/dog healthy & happy.

I posted this earlier in the thread but it might've been missed.

If you're on facebook, the following pages have dogs available and looking for homes:

• Paw Help UK - Foster And Adopt - Urgent & Overlooked Dogs
• Save a Paw UK
• Help4paws UK & overseas
• UK Chihuahuas And Toy Breeds For Rehoming (some of these rescues will also have medium/larger breeds if that's what you're looking for)
• Foal Farm Animal Rescue

Wood Green

Dont discount smaller local rescues.

They do get puppies you are correct. My friend works at a big rescue centre, one week she was on "puppy duty" and they had a little four month old German Shepherd whose owner had died suddenly 😢 Family and friends not able to take on his puppy. What a scary place to end up as a youngster because you have the sheer misfortune of your owner dying suddenly 😭poor thing

So yeah, rescues do have puppies in for all sorts of entirely "innocent" reasons if you know what I mean

Agree @Thistlewoman !

In the first six months of owning my first dog (a puppy) I worked out that I spent on average £900 a month on things relating to having a dog.😱😱😱😱

The first few months are very expensive as you have to buy EVERYTHING for the first time and trial and error with a lot of different versions of it all in addition to the usual "business as usual" costs.

Harness, slow feeder, collars, kibble, small crate, leads, different leads, puppy training course fees, new blankets, fence wire to secure garden, treats, car seats, dog bed, dog groom, ear cleaner, change kibble, car harness, dog tag, replace car seat with car car crate, dog bowls, treats, she doesn't like current bed get new one, stair gates, try different harness as she escapes her others, dangly dog tag I got clinks on food bowl replace dog tag with slide on one, another groom, outgrown small crate buy bigger crate, try a different harness and pay for it to be customized to fit properly, change to different kibble, OMG emergency out of hours vet visit because I panicked over something minor because I'm inexperienced, dog coats as winter comes, more dog bowls so some can be in dishwasher, doggy daycare, throw out all the harnesses and stick to collar as per new trainer advice, try different ear cleaner, OMG replace all of my socks because they all have holes in them!! See also:nightdresses. Try another different dog bed and donate the old ones, switch to raw feeding following yeast infection and surgical ear flushing (£££££) and throw out the huge £90 bag of kibble I had just bought, forget dog beds..she just wants a blanket on the floor....

...you get the idea 😂😂 this isn't even the half of it.

Tbf though, most of the stuff I bought in the early days never even got used 🙈 Like the gorgeous bed I bought her. She slept under the sofa till she could no longer fit and even now only uses her bed to throw up on 🙄

Also bought a really gorgeous crate as think they're ugly. I blame Easy Peasey Puppy Squeezy for making me think I had to have one... she never liked it and I realised I didn't actually like the idea of it either 😳

If you go to a dog-based charity shop, they often have crates, leads, bowls etc etc for a few quid, so you can make your mistakes more cheaply.

@fandangored Six is far too young to be getting a puppy for a child.

I got a Whippet supposedly for me , but son took to him so much I sold him to son for £1

( I paid all bills though)
Son was proven to be responsible with dogs by then and loved walking- He was 11 when I allowed him to have the Whippet.

He poop scooped, cleaned up vomit when Whippet gorged on chips 🍟 but the main thing is WALKS.

A six year old child is far too young to do decent walks.

An un exercised dog becomes bored and naughty.

Those fluff balls you showed a pic of have puppy farm all over them.

Please look at the tricks puppy farms play to look like it’s a well loved pet having a “ whoopsie “ litter.

It’s an absolute scandal.

Its very unlikely any rescue will allow a child of 6 to have a dog - because 6 year olds are six!

My son had to wait til he was older- at an age where he could come on walks.

Dogs are hard work ( walks in mud and rain no matter how tired you feel) and a tie and need real commitment.

A large cardboard box 📦 makes a good puppy bed.
They do throw us on their beds- ( and ours!) 🤣
Probably as they go there when feeling poorly- and then vomit where they are lying.

Our old Lurcher stole a rank sandwich 🥪 in a car park- A few hours later (1am) I heard vomiting- The sandwich 🥪 again!
chicken rings -
I made her up a fresh bed, but she was too scared 😳 to go back to it thinking the vom was still there! ( she was an impeccably clean dog, bless her!)

If she was travel sick , she’d vomit on paper , then screw up the paper with her feet and nose, & push it into a corner.
😘
Loved her so much fastidious little girl she was.

Absolutely this.

No reputable breeder would be breeding a cross breed.

I breed Ragdoll’s so cats not dogs but the breeding circle is very close knit and pretty judgemental for good reasons. The second that word got out that someone was breeding crosses or overbreeding, not following recommended guidelines etc. and all other breeders would refuse to allow them to use their studs etc.

Most of these designer poo breeds are basically just a poodle and offer nothing more than a pure bred poodle can offer. Plus by going for a pure bred poodle you can find a reputable breeder that does the health tests required. And if you don’t like the poodle cut then simply keep them in a doodle cut, there is no requirement to shave them.

When we got our puppy 6 years ago we paid a deposit of £350 cash after the first viewing (we had the cash with us ready) and then paid the remaining balance via bank transfer on collection (made the transfer in front of breeder and she checked her account) 2 weeks later. With our 2nd puppy from the same breeder we transferred the whole payment via bank transfer to secure the puppy and picked up a week later (without even viewing) not once did we get the feeling our breeder was dodgy or her attitude was off even hence the confident we had in purchasing our second puppy. Reading your post I feel off about the situation, if you feel something is not right, it's best to part ways with £200 than with even more money. That sort of pressure from the breeder I wouldn't tolerate, if they were a good breeder they wouldn't need to use pressure tactics to get their puppies sold.

How can it be "basically" just a poodle when it's genetically 50% something else? It's true you can't guarantee which traits a cross will inherit from either breed but it's unlikely it won't have ANY from the other breed and could also inherit MORE from the other breed and less from the poodle.

My mix is genetically more poodle but she definitely has more retriever traits and doesn't look like a poodle either.

Also, there absolutely are people with studs from great lines who will consider non poodles as mates. Some actually offer them cheaper than if mating to a full poodle.

Because whenever you ask someone why they want a poodle cross it’s ALWAYS the poodle traits they are looking for. They always want one that’s looks like a poodle with a curly coat. Or they want a hypoallergenic dog which again means they are looking for a more poodle dog.

Those people with studs from want you claim are great lines, are backyard breeders. What makes them great? Is the dog proven in the show ring? In agility? Field craft? What makes that dog such an outstanding specimen of the breed that it should be reproduced? Other than money which is the ONLY reason a cross breed is produced.

Even the creator of the labradoodle now says he deeply regrets it.

I have a KC reg Whippet.
Her sisters qualified for Crufts , ( I don’t show) superb temperament - but I had her spayed.

My girl isn’t a money maker and nor are her sisters.

Absolutely. There is generally no reason to breed most dogs except for money, which in my opinion isn’t ethical.

The ethical breeders I know only breed when they themselves are looking for a puppy to take over with whatever show / sport / work they are involved in and only bred from dogs that have something to contribute to the breed other than the ability to simply reproduce.

I know the pedigree of the studs. Some are proper set ups that perform ultrasounds etc as well.

It's the coat of the poodle they want... not necessarily the personality traits. They might be lucky, they might not but it's wrong to say they'll just end up with a poodle.

The "creator" of the labradoodle (not proven) is just an attention seeker who pops up now and then for the publicity. Out of the 3 pups he bred first, he knew only 1 was potentially hypoallergenic (which isn't actually a thing, some dogs make people react less is all) yet he then announced to the world that labradoodles were hypoallergenic... so he lied. Since they've become popular he started spouting lots of rubbish about the cross to get in the press. He's in his 90s now... if he's still alive 🤷‍♀️

Performing ultrasounds doesn’t mean professional breeder. In fact it’s more likely to mean puppy farm that’s skimping on vet fees.

Considering your dog is a mix of 3 breeds, what did you get in that mix that you couldn’t get in a pure breed? Were your dogs parents tested for all conditions that exist in all 3 breeds considering that your dog could have inherited any of the genes?

Or were you sucked in to paying silly amounts of money for a cute mongrel puppy because someone called it a goldadordoodle or something equally as silly and made up?

Yes, dam and sire of my dog both fully health tested and hip & elbow scored. That's something that is non negotiable to me.

I wanted a dog that was a golden retriever in a not as moulty body! I also wanted a large dog and a bitch... mine is bigger than a lot of female goldens. I like poodles but they can be highly strung, are super intelligent and can be prone to separation anxiety... I prefer retrievers personality wise. I also wanted a stockier dog. I knew none of these things were guaranteed and was happy to accept whatever traits she did end up with but perhaps down to luck and maybe a little down to my due diligence in selecting a pup (researched breeds for 2/3 years and spent well over a year waiting for the right litter) I did end up with my perfect dog.

She actually doesn't really resemble any of the breeds she's made up of... I've been asked if she's a newfie or an OES before (despite her being red 😂) but she's totally a golden in personality and sheds far less (parent's coat types also DNA tested).

So why Lab? Spent 3 years researching to get a mix of 3 breeds?

And you’re seriously saying the parents were tested for all the below? I absolutely doubt that! Hip and elbow scores are bare minimum! What about the genetic conditions affecting those 3 breeds?

CNM
PRA1
PRA2
PRA4
prcd-PRA
SD2
STGD
MCD
HCM
PLA
ICT-A
vWD1

I don't appreciate being called a liar... yes my dog's parents were both tested for the conditions relevant to their breeds and my dog has been tested too. I have no reason to lie - I actually bore myself sometimes on here banging on about the importance of health testing, it's something I'm really insistent upon.

I originally set out to get a gr/poodle but this particular litter came to my attention as both parents are large and it's tricky finding cross breeds that ARE fully health tested and scored. Sire's parents are a gr/poodle and a lab/poodle so she's ended up with a bit of lab too. And yes, 3 years research and I've ended up with my perfect dog.. so well worth it 👍

I didn’t say you’re lying I said I highly doubt your docs parents were tested for all the conditions listed for the 3 breeds the dog is made up from. So have you seen evidence that all those tests were done? As I haven’t seen a single backyard breeder doing them all. Some do a couple to make it LOOK like they are ethical but none do them all.

Yes, of course I have seen the paperwork and I did my own research to double check the information I was given was legitimate. I'm far from naive, probably a bit too paranoid in all honesty. Most of the tests are carried out at the same time anyway... it would be pointless to not do them all.

Just because somebody breeds a cross it doesn't make them a backyard breeder. My definition of a backyard breeder is one that breeds irresponsibly and unsafely, possibly in poor conditions. This couldn't be more different to my dog's experience. Her breeder bred once and kept a puppy herself. She didn't make a huge profit as she didn't charge as much as some do and she took 2 months off work, so a lot of the profit just covered her lost wage.

A backyard breeder is a breeder that breeds primarily for profit and not to benefit the breed. There is no reason to breed a cross breed to benefit the breed as there isn’t a breed standard. You have a dog that is a mix of 3 breeds, you’ve stated the parents are mixes of 2 breeds and even the grandparents a mix of 2 breeds.

There is absolutely no way of knowing your dog is the breed mix it’s supposed to be. And before you say you’ve had a DNA test, remember the study where these dog DNA test companies reported breeds as human DNA as they are so inaccurate. There is absolutely no way of knowing what lurking problems are being carried as there are too many genes potentially passed down and it’s not physically possible to do them all. You keep talking about health tests but have yet to confirm that the entire list of tests I posted were done.

There is absolutely no way to know the bitch isn’t being overbred as no organisation is registering and monitoring the number of litters from that bitch. There is absolutely no way to know the parents are even who they say they are as no one is recording and confirming the accuracy of the pedigree. For the same reason there is also no way to know the parents aren’t inbred again as no inbreeding coefficient calculated.

You can justify paying silly money for a mongrel that you could have picked up at any rescue centre as much as you like. The fact remains by doing so you have supported a backyard breeder.

If Poodles are well bred and raised properly, they are no more highly strung than other breeds (you get the odd nervous member in every breed). As for separation anxiety, that is a result of how puppies are raised and trained - speaking as someone who has two Toy Poodles (and previously had 3 Standards) and a Weimaraner, also ‘prone’ to separation anxiety (and previously had 4 others).

Staying over with a friend who is dog sitting a miniature Poodle- She’s not at all timid or neurotic, and lives between Hampstead and a farm in Suffolk
She’s friendly, sat on my lap ( I’m a stranger to her) and fine with my peaceful dog.

Friend dog sits for a few Purebred miniature poodles and none are a problem.