February 2025 Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

A new thread indeed!.

The public, group scapegoating of number 1 was sickening and she made many very serious suicide attempts and was sectioned. I didn't take any part in the abuse but number 2 gc absolutely did. She would physically fight her and fuel everything.

Poor number 1, I've tried to be friends but she makes false very serious allegations and is just too much for me. And not my responsibility. I hope she's happy.

@TorroFerney I don’t show him any anger but I do show him that I find it upsetting because I love him and he deserves better. I don’t go with him and I told him it’s because I don’t like it and don’t agree with it.

@Dogaredabomb That's one of the issues I have with my mother, that I can see now she enabled his behaviour. Sometimes by simply standing by and doing nothing, and sometimes with active participation. And then my role was to support her when it inevitably didn't work. I can remember her, shortly after the divorce, talking about it like we were a team, like we'd all been innocent bystanders to his insanity. Now my kids are around the same age I was, I look at them and all I can think is we weren't a team. She was the adult. She chose to give us that man as a father and to give us that life. We were just children introduced into a situation we had no say over. But it's often very difficult for me to talk about this because I get told that it's victim shaming and it's never acceptable to say that women in violent relationships have any responsibility at all for anything.

I sometimes wonder what the line in the sand would have been for her, the point at which she'd have said it was enough without another man in the offing. That really scares me because I'm not sure there was one.

I feel sick and scared having mentioned number 1, she's very much a taboo subject. I feel like something will happen to me.

It's OK. For starters, I get you, I want you to know I respect and admire you breaking the chain and surviving even more now, and I think you've been very courageous in sharing it.

I completely understand and it sickens me. How could she do that? How could Dad do that? I presume, like me, you'd beg the sane one to leave and rescue you.

I spoke to someone recently who gave me a different perspective she said that her Mum didn't leave because then she (the child) would have been alone on visitation.

I don't think that was Dad's reasoning. I think for him it was the 70s, his job pretty much required a spouse and I think they were good friends. Also his domestic life ran smoothly. I think he thought she was quirky rather than a fucking cunt.

Thank you ♥️

No wonder we get ill!!! No wonder!

With regards to The Scapegoat (TS) and The Golden Child (GC), how have you been affected?

My sister was TS and I was the GC and I have been far more affected by our abusive childhood than she has. It seems that a lot of things I read state that TS is affected worse, but in my case my sister was able to emotionally cut off from our mother from when she was a young child, whereas I at 43 am still struggling with memories of how we were treated as children, and also constantly questioning how my mother behaves towards me.

My sister was TS and “written off” from about 12 years old and so my mum doesn’t really concern herself with my sister anymore, whereas I am suffocated.

Although my sister was TS and probably had it worse than me when we were children, sometimes I can’t help but feel jealous of the freedom she now has an adult, she seems to have no internal conflict about what we endured and has a very superficial and low contact relationship with our mother, whereas I still really struggle with my mothers constant narcissistic behaviours and her constant presence in my life.

@Dogaredabomb yes, I was desperate for them to split up. I used to beg my mother to leave. Weirdly, my father used to take me to one side for little private talks where he'd say if we split, you'll live with me, won't you? And I would say yes although it made me feel sick to say it. But I couldn't have said no. His temper was terrifying. There were plenty of opportunities for her to make the break, as well, and definitely two very clear points when financially she could have done it. She told me he always persuaded her that things would be better if they just did X (it usually involved moving house). I remember saying to her 'he lied', and I could see that even 30+ years later she still couldn't see it.

As for staying together to prevent unsupervised access - for me, that argument sounds like an excuse.

That sounds awful and I feel very sorry for her. She must be incredibly damaged now. It’s very sad but we just can’t fix people as much as we want to. I think being scapegoated can almost make us into vulnerable narcissists. There is a deficit that always remains and we expect others to fill this. But it is no ones responsibility to fill a hole left by a parent. We can remain stuck in victim and neediness if we don’t get to grips with this. It’s sad what these parents do.

@MotherIssues2025 reduce your contact and dont feel bad about it. You need space mentally and physically from your mother. You can also have the same freedom but you have to take it, it wont be given. You benefitted by being the GC but paying the price.
You have no idea how it affected your sister, she was written off at age 12! she has had time to grow and be independent out of necessity. I doubt you are close as sisters, narc parents pit siblings against each other to keep control.
You have a choice to remain enmeshed and unhappy or not, it is that simple. You have the choice your sister didnt.

Thankfully me and my sister are extremely close, we are like best friends and we have always had a very close bond despite our childhood. We were inseparable as children and I thank God for that as I think having each other helped us get through it.

My sister doesn’t like to talk about our childhood, she just accepts it was crap and doesn’t really dwell on it. The only difference between us is that she might see our mom maybe once a month, and they rarely speak on the phone whereas I see my mum about 3 times a week and she phones at least once every two days. It’s suffocating me and the more time I spend with her the more the memories of my childhood keep resurfacing.

You could be describing me and my GC sister. The difference being my mother poured all her energy into me when I was a Good Obedient Child willing to try to earn her love. When I started to become an independent little adult I was discarded and my younger sister stepped into GC.

We're not close now and I am LC with all, though the family narrative of "closeness" is strong amongst them and my sister is completely enmeshed. She might look at me and my "freedom" in a similar way. My mother texts her approx every 5 minutes.

All I'll say is that freedom was survival, and has come at the cost of any self worth, self belief or self respect I could've naturally developed. Google "mother wound" for what an emotionally abandoning mother does to a child. I'm 40 now and it's only after 5+ years of therapy that I'm beginning to build those things up, having spent my 20s and 30s trying to find my mom's approval in toxic workplaces and relationships. I got married at 39, could only meet an emotionally healthy man once I'd started therapy and started to heal from my childhood. We might never have kids because of my advanced age. I'm having to start again in my career now that I'm awake and unwilling to sabotage myself in the way I always did.

There's a cost to every role. IME the SC never gets to be a kid and never gets to be parented. My god what I would do for just one bloody day of being parented, being the priority.

@CheekySnake Some people for whatever reason just make a mess of their lives. Its takes mental and emotional strength to leave an abuser, some people don’t have this. It takes support and encouragement and a village, some don’t have this. It takes knowledge of something better and some know no better. Some don’t want to and they ruin their kids lives or they are mentally ill themselves. It doesn’t mean that you weren’t worth her doing it for you, she should have done it for you.

@wonderingwonderingwondering - thank you for such an open and honest reply. I’m sorry it’s taken you so long to reach where you’ve got to today and I hope you keep moving forwards to enjoy the life you deserve.

That's really kind of you. I'm learning to value myself beyond the superficial things my mother instilled in me as The Most Important things. I've dealt with some health things that really opened my eyes to it all. I'd imagine your sister's avoidance of any childhood stuff is her only way of coping with it. She grew up shunned by her own mother, that produces life long pain.

I admire your closeness with her. A part of me longs for the same with GC sister, but her obliviousness is too triggering for me. I have less contact with my mother than your sister does, and being in the company of a sister who relentlessly praises and refers to my mother as some kind of amazing parent that she wasn't to me is unbearable.

What would happen if you didn't answer the phone?

She’d ring, and ring, and ring, and ring my phone and if I don’t answer she’ll leave it an hour and then start ringing again, over and over. I always end up answering it because it’s easier than experiencing the constant feeling of dread when my phone rings. If I continued to ignore it she’d phone my husband instead to ask to speak to me. If he says I’m not home then she’ll just start ringing my phone again. Sometimes he will tell her that I’m out and don’t have my phone with me, so she tells him to get
me to cal her when I’m back…..and if I don’t it just means she starts ringing me again.

Ultimately the constant ringing and ringing will not stop until she has spoken to me, so for my own sanity I just speak to her as soon as she rings otherwise its hours of harassment and me feeling full of anxiety trying to avoid the inevitable.

It’s absolutely draining.

Maybe that’s why we have remained close then, because she can see that despite me being the GC she knows that I feel the same way about our mum as she does. We are still united in that way despite the differences in how we were treated as children.

OK. I've been there. My mother used to do this, ring and ring and ring until I answered. I know what it's like and how horrible and stressful it is when you check the phone and there's 17 missed calls. She doesn't do it any more (TBH she doesn't ring at all, because I don't answer the phone). I will hold up my hand and say I used to do it too because I thought it was normal until my DH told me to cut it out.

I hope it's OK for me to suggest a couple of things.

How often do you want to speak to her, and when would be convenient for you to do it? That's your boundary. You can make it as often or not as you like. Once a year if that works for you. You are under no obligation to answer the phone at any other time. I know it feels like you are, but you aren't. There's no law that says you have to do it and no-one will die if you don't. Boundaries are allowed. It's OK and normal to have them.

The main problem isn't the ringing, it's how the ringing makes you feel. You're answering the phone not because you want to speak to her, but to calm your anxiety and the fact that the ring activates your nervous system in a way that feels very unpleasant.

At some point, to sort this problem, you are going to have to face that anxiety and put in a boundary about when you will answer the phone. There are two possibilities here. You either tell her bluntly to stop, or you ignore. You may have to do both, only you will know that.

I know how hard this is. But here's the thing; if you ride it out, the anxiety will fade. The feeling won't last forever. The body can't sustain it. When nothing bad happens when you don't answer, things will eventually calm. I promise. But the only way to make this happen is to let the anxiety wear itself out. You've got to let it happen.

I would recommend having a plan in advance. She's going to ring, you're going to reply with a message saying I am busy today, I will speak to you on X day. And then you're going to let her ring. If it helps to put the phone on silent (if you can) then do that. Would you be able to get your DH on board, too, so he knows to ignore her too? It will really help if he refuses to be a flying monkey.

The feeling of dread is just a feeling, it doesn't signify anything and it will go away. Hard when it's a mobile of course as you can see it ringing. Your husband also needs to not answer.

I know this is slightly woo therapist speak but let the feeling come and say oh that's that feeling, it's not going to harm me it will go away, I am not under threat, she can't actually do anything. Obviously she may choose the day she can't get in touch to pretend she's had an accident etc but that's just manipulation. Wow what are the chances mother!

Caveat all that with I know exactly how you feel and how you'll do anything to avoid that feeling!

Cross post, wise words.

It's really interesting to hear that. My GC sister worships my mother, she can't get through a sentence without referring to her in some sort of warm, positive way and it just makes me feel worse about myself. My mother rarely talks to me and likes to make that my fault - "I'm very private / have a communication problem" etc. I've always suspected this is why myself and my sister have such a complicated, confusing relationship.

I also wanted to address this, as I think it's a common misconception that someone has to be acutely "dysfunctional" or struggling in stereotypical ways to go to therapy. It's not the case AT ALL.

When I started therapy, everything in my life appeared amazing. Job, location, social circle, etc. I was deeply depressed and struggling with my self esteem, self worth, sense of identity and a chronic people pleaser. I had an incredible inner critic driving me, I told myself awful things about myself all day every day. I didn't know myself, was in auto pilot and had no ability to make decisions for myself.

I still struggle with many things, but therapy allowed me to see myself and see my struggle for what it really was, for the first time. My therapist was a kind, older lady who gave me more empathy for what I'd been through that anyone in my life at that point. As the overlooked middle kid, that meant the world to me and really transformed how I saw myself. I'll always be thankful to her for that.

I truly believe therapy can help anyone and give us all a better quality of life. Please know though that it can take a few sessions with a few different therapists to find your person though. And knowing what I know now about myself - I'd recomend anyone with a background of family dysfunction to avoid CBT and find someone qualified in IFS, family systems, EMDR. Those are the modalities that have worked best for me.