February 2025 Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

A new thread indeed!.

@Happyfarm I only just realise that my constant worry about how to make conversation, is the other person interested (I usually assume they aren't and keep it short), do they find it interesting etc. comes from the lack of communication and connection when I grew up.

I do have that but I also find it hard to maintain a conversation because my mind is busy with 100 different thoughts at the same time. I forget half way through what we are talking about. 😂 Then I worry incase I say something stupid or wrong. ADHD brains never seem to stop worrying!

That is so weird. Why would you buy something for one child and not the other? Just . . . why? (I'm assuming there's something going on here around boys being more valuable than girls).

There were strange behaviours around food in our house too. One of my father's favourite tricks was to make a big fuss about buying you a treat (bar of chocolate, bun from the baker's etc). He would say he didn't want anything himself, then ask for 'a bite' of mine which would involve him holding it out of reach and eating most of it then passing me back the spitty remains. If I complained or showed even the slightest bit of annoyance with his behaviour I was selfish and disgusting. I can see now he knew exactly what he was doing. It was just another of his weird bullying power trips.

I don't think the aim is or should be to never be upset by anything ever again. Negative emotions are a normal part of everyday life. I personally think the idea of triggers and trigger warnings isn't helpful. I don't want the nervous system and emotional resilience of a 5 year old, needing to be protected because they're not mature enough to cope with something. I want to be a normal functioning adult who isn't wound up to the point of bursting into tears by things that do not warrant such an extreme reaction, such as daft text messages or situations where I need to put in a minor boundary that someone else won't like.

What is needed is to be able to handle the discomfort of the negative emotion, not be afraid or ashamed of it, and to shift back to a calm baseline in a timely fashion.

Yes, patriarchy. The example above about not getting a pastry for me is recent. My brother behaves like this now as an adult. No concern for anyone but himself. They offer to get breakfast and don't bring a pastry for their host .

Your father's behaviour could have happened at my home too. It's awful.

Unfortunately some people are born with nervous systems that don’t develope and need protecting, those who are asd for example.

He used to steal stuff all the time and then act like it made him superior to other people. Bits of minor shoplifting, like slipping sweets in his pocket. Stuff from museums. Money. Things I'd been given for birthdays or christmas used to randomly disappear, and he'd claim he knew nothing about it. It's obvious to me now that he'd taken them and given them to someone else.

There was a weird thing to do with being able to take things from other people and them not being able to stop him, I think the food thing was part of it.

The chocolate bar tease - I was pretty good as spotting things like that, and work out how to pre-empt them by saying 'no thanks' when they offered to buy the bar of chocolate in the first place. So looking back now its pretty obvious why I was made the scapegoat.

This 👍
This is what moving forward looks like, taking responsibility for yourself and your decisions. Putting in the work.

I honestly think age is the most beautiful blessing. Not giving a fuck is so lovely, the gift that keeps giving.

Also, just run and stay ran. If they text change your number, if they visit move house. Anything and everything to just get away from these awful awful people.

cheekysnake I'd love to punch your father for you.

I just feel really uneasy around my SiL. Don't think she's a full-blown covert narcissist like my mother, but she behaves similar in many ways.

One thing my mother does is to get involved in everything. Say there are four people in the room and I ask my niece something or just speak to her and my mother would answer for her or just butt in. It's like you are under constant surveillance. My SiL does the same. And is very rude, uses foul language or insults. Then hates when I set a boundary.

For example, my niece was saying her paper napkin is no longer good so I offered her a new one. Her mum butted in 'you could still have used it to wipe your mouth' but in a shouty tone. A telling off tone. I said 'i offered her a new one. It's just a napkin'. Around these two women I walk on egg shells. Like I can't make my own decisions about anything because they will comment the opposite and use their voice to control and dominate. This was in my house, my kitchen. It's not like she asked for a fourth helping. It was just about a bloody napkin.

It's soul crushing. I can imagine what it must be like for my niece. I grew up like that. She's also been acting off with me when her parents are around but is totally normal when we are alone. The same used to happen around my mother when I was still in contact. It's utterly heartbreaking. I'm devastated actually.

That’s awful. Bullies always undermine those they don’t want others to sway towards. I read that once you’ve been labeled a scapegoat you are free for all the family to do the same. There is something about you that they don’t like, a spark a sense of free spirit and they don’t like this and they don’t want others to see this positive in you either. They don’t want your niece to see you as someone worthy of liking when you are. It’s sick that they will poison all relationships because they are jealous.

Yes I thought this during their visit. That I will be forever everyones scapegoat and they will view anything I do through that lense.

Unfortunately I gave them fodder during their stay. We wanted to go to an experience, I had booked the tickets, planned how to get there, timing etc. We were to leave after breakfast. Brother and SiL nipped out to run an errand and I made clear we would need to leave at X time to not be late.

Well, they weren't back on time and phoned in instead to ask which bus to take to my place for two fucking stops instead of walking and a avoid the wait for the bus. When they came they walked down like they are some kind of heros (golden child thing. My family, grandparents, aunts etc would have welcomed them with a warm hello and not held them accountable).

Unfortunately I lost it at my brother. Told him I found it disrespectful. That I planned the visit to the thing, made sure me and my niece got ready on time and they muck about like that totally ignoring the time I said we had to leave (because they couldn't guarantee late entry). He did the classic 'you make a mountain out of a molehill about absolutely everything' and 'you know what, you can go on your own, we aren't coming'.

It will be all my fault in the history books. No doubt my parents will be nodding along when they get told the story. I'm just too sensitive.

I want to tell him I'm quite a calm person and don't shout or throw around insults, especially to children, nearly as often as his wife or his mother but he wouldn't hear it anyway.

Interestingly he cried. I thought it was quite a small incident compared with what their lives are like. Full of tension, egg shells, shouting, dysregulation. They say narc families can implode when the scapegoat leaves. I wonder if I will see that day.

I wonder if my brother feels a lot of expectations from my parents. My parents have no life. No friends. All there is is my brother and his family. They are enmeshed in a weird way.

Anything we did during the trip he'd sent a photo to his mummy and daddy. First time I found it so bizarre. Like he can't go half a day without contacting them. But we'd just be somewhere and either ignore each other or my SiL would shout at or insult my niece or her husband. It's not like we had a carefree time. Well I didn't anyway.

He probably feels obliged to be in contact so often. They used to do it with me. They'd find some trivial reason to text me and by evening they'd be like 'we haven't heard from you'. Or I would get a call to say 'we just wanted to see how you are (no, you don't care how I am) and if everything is alright (again, you don't truly care).' it's like I needed to ease their anxiety in them about whatever.

Perhaps he’s just addicted to his mummies approval and he is a bit desperate to receive a bit of praise from them like he’s a child still. I don’t think they grow out of this need for mummy to pat them on the head and say good boy. I guess they are trained like a dog. My recall isn’t very good now and I bite a little. 😂

😂😂😂at the recall!

I thought just yesterday that it's no wonder he's in contact with the whole extended family because they treat him like he's the pope. He can do no wrong there. He was the first grandchild/nephew and is male so has a special status. As a girl and the daughter of my mother who choose me as her scapegoat I could never receive the same treatment.

At times I felt sorry for him because he has no identity and is failing his daughter. And then I just feel disgust because he's failing his daughter and he treats me poorly. I don't respect him for not challenging the family dynamics and for choosing himself over his daughter. He's an excellent enabler and is deflecting and gaslighting at every opportunity.

I think he's starting to realise his bullshit doesn't reach me as much anymore. That he couldn't hurt me by threatening to not join the day out that was already paid for.

I used an oyster card for my niece which I kept topping up. Later I saw they must have topped it up themselves before leaving to pay me back. My family always want to do right when it has to do with money. But with everything else there are double standards and boundary crossings and they don't treat anyone the same at all.

It just sounds like hard work, like they jostling for control. It’s supposed to be a nice day out, I don’t think I’d really be bothered again with it. If it’s not fun why bother wasting your time. Your meant to feel good after spending time with people. Your brother just sounds childish and immature and probably secretly competitive and smug and with his parents. I don’t trust sublings.

You know your niece has two personalities because there is a version she has to be for her parents, and it's not real. I did it as a child. I had to meet the behavioural expectation. There were things I was expected to believe/like/dislike and ways I was expected to treat different people, some good and some bad. If my father didn't like someone you were expected to be nasty to them. And when you're a child, before you've fully grasped that your parents are awful (which is something that can be impossible for a young brain) it's so difficult. The fact that she's normal with you means there's hope. X. She might be a chainbreaker like you.

You just hit your limit, that's all. It's normal. Being pissed off in that situation is a normal human reaction. Maybe getting cross with them was pointless, but it doesn't matter in the long run. They can tell themselves whatever story they like. Let them spin it to fit their narrative. It's ok.

Have you done any reading on the golden child? I've done a bit and it's quite interesting - under the surface it's not all kittens and roses. It won't excuse your brother but it can explain the enmeshment and inability to properly separate from his parents. And isn't your brother's choice of wife interesting?

BTW GC's cry because they can't cope with being wrong/in trouble and constantly work to make sure they're not. So even a minor criticism can tip them over the edge. It's the definition of thin skinned.

I don't think I would want to be a GC. Funny thing is, in our family there wasn't one as such (well there sort of was). Instead my father fixated on people outside the family. There was a girl I went to school with (who he barely knew, I'm not sure he even met her). He compared me to her constantly. So weird.

@Happyfarm yeah, not organising something again that requires leaving on time is a boundary I'm going to set. It's not a one off. They have form for making people wait. It is clear they have no consideration or interest in me. I can't imagine they keep contact with me for the sake of my niece. It's probably just a case 'we are family'.

Why on earth would you bother to organise anything ever again?

I dislike the we are family saying. Are you even interested in them? I’m not interested in mine so I don’t go. I’ve no interest sitting and talking about money and how easy it is to buy what I want then judge everyone around me as they have less then me. I don’t want my kids around that either. I feel so sorry for my nieces but they starting to talk like it also and they talk to my children like it so I don’t want to see them anymore either. I preach a simple life, I want my kids to play in the mud still and not have their cousins laugh at them.

@CheekySnake yeah I thought she's just keeping herself safe by being like this when her parents are around. I can tell for example she is conflicted between her parents views and what she's taught in school. They are racist, told her it's important to get a husband with a last name that is common in our home country, i.e. 'dont get an immigrant'. And they live in a multicultural area. Lots of her friends parents are immigrants. The school is obviously teaching 'we are all the same and don't bully anyone for their looks or name'. I wanted to say to her 'get someone who treats you well. Always listen to your gut feeling if they are good for you or not' but I'd probably have caused a row.

Yes, I understand the golden children. I prefer being the scapegoat as it drove me away from this family and I have the opportunity to have a peaceful life. But it also gave me lots of health issues and I sometimes am resentful of my brother's health. I guess the reward is that I am free and he's not likely to ever be free. He's extremely defensive without a backbone.

I sometimes wonder if these visits are worth it but I'm going to keep doing it for my niece. She may be brainwashed too much at one point and cut me off but I will accept that. When in therapy a few things came to light. My therapist asked 'did you ever feel loved as a child' and 'was there anyone who took you under their wing'. The answer to both is no and it was a devastating realisation that not a single person loved me or cared about me. So even if she's conflicted she might end up with a visceral memory about being allowed to be who she's is with this one weird aunt who doesn't shout at her but is interested in understanding where she comes from .

@Happyfarm if I had kids of my own I probably wouldn't want them around my brother and SiL, so I would have to put them before my niece. It just happens that I don't have to make these kind of decisions.

I do love my niece as the only person out of all of them.

I’m lucky my brothers kids (boys) are great but they live far. When they all get together they all run around and play with sticks and mud and laugh. My partners nieces are like the dad, sat on their expensive iPads, not interested in play and every now and again put their heads up and makes comments about the silly kids playing. It’s sad really. It made my eldest cry so contact is very limited now. I want her her to keep her playful childhood for as long as possible.