February 2025 Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

A new thread indeed!.

@Dogaredabomb gentle hug for you.

I feel that whenever I've made a movement towards independence and autonomy (in other words: differentiation and separation from my mother), I've put on weight. To counter the feeling of depersonalization that comes from stepping out of the line (for me personally)? As a way of punishing myself/compensating for my successes? As an airbag (😬) to protect me from mother's attacks?
I don't know what it is, but I just know that the periods when I've been more overweight have been the most wholesome ones and when I've done powerful things and felt more mature and self confident (still not at a healthy level, though).
Weight is a very complex issue, ime.

friendlyreminder I agree, weight is extremely complex. I think you're correct about the airbag. A layer of protection. I feel that Mum strayed into the emotional incest territory. She also was just utterly obsessed with other people's bodies.

She had an excellent figure when she was young and I think she seriously mourned the loss of having a drop dead figure.

She also had the type of looks that shine brightly but only in youth and back in the day married women cut their hair and got sensible perms and she mourned it to her dying day.

Dad had quieter good looks that he grew into more and more which drove her mad 🤣

My mum came over this morning and made a comment that I should just allow my oldest (adhd) to hit and push my youngest because “she can’t help it, it’s just the way she is”. And that I’m making her feel bad about herself by keep telling her that this behaviour is not acceptable. In front of my daughter who now thinks she has a free pass. It’s triggered me, this saying from my dad about my mum “it’s just the way she is”. What a shitty saying and now I’ve had a go at my mum and she has sulked out of the house. I’m not sure if I’m in the wrong but I feel this is just enabling. ADHD or not it’s just wrong to hit and push and it’s shouldn’t just be allowed. My youngest has feelings also.

My parents had a weird obsession with weight and appearance too. Particularly weight, which was very much a measure of worth. I was told (being taller than both of them by 15) that I was just large and there was nothing I could do about it 🙄. They used to call me a baby elephant when I was a kid. I don't have scales in the house now. I refuse. My DD has no idea what she weighs and it's never been important.

I was watching something on Instagram the other day (I follow a few therapists who talk about childhood trauma) and I saw one talking about the impact of growing up in a family where the conversation revolves around being critical all the time, and how it becomes normalised. So if your 'family talk' focuses on weight you internalise this and it becomes the lens through which you judge yourself and other people, and then it becomes what you focus on. It really struck a chord with me because our family talk was hypercritical, especially from my father. My mother was underweight, I can see that now, because his focus meant it became her focus too. She admitted years ago that she usually only ate once a day and some days didn't eat at all. Survived on fags and coffee. And then made it my focus, because I broke the small is good rule by being tall. But then there was no small that was small enough.

Could you mention the therapists you follow please?This was my family dynamic too. The critical talk and focus on weight.

@Meltedcandlewax

the.holistic.psychologist
morganpommells
rayfreemanpsychotherapy
drjennyking
therapyforoverthinkers
soulful_therapist
samahsomatichealer (posts a lot about binge eating)
carolinemiddlesdorf
doctorramani
thehealthpsychologist
dr.sherrie

Obviously this can become a bit of a rabbit hole and you need to be beware of the algorithm funnelling you towards accounts that aren't actually that healthy, so I tend to only dip in occasionally, but I have found these quite helpful.

@Dogaredabomb and @CheekySnake it never ceases to surprise me how similar our stories are!
My mother was extremely cruel commenting other people's apparences, even hers: she had a way to say very hurtful things to us, her daughters, and then justify it by saying that she said those things "so you don't end up like me". Of course with time I've realised she did want us to end up like her, or worse, so we wouldn't "outshine" her.
When I was pre-teen, both my parents used to comment that when they got married, my mum "was like a feather" and even told me how much she weighted! How is that a normal thing to talk about?
My dad had always been overweight/obese, since he was a child (his own mother doing... notice a pattern?), and my mum always made a point to us of what a beautiful soul she was for liking my father when nobody liked him because he was fat. Then she always told me to "watch out" because I was "built like my father".
By 40, my father had became fairly attractive and she started to be overweight and she was absolutely miserable about it. Now I see they had this weird thing about eating and weight, kind of like a competition between them? I don't think they were aware of it, mind you.
I'm terrified of passing my weight issues to my DC. I have a problematic relationship with food and wish I could be all in with "intuitive eating" and all that... but I'm really apprehensive about feeding my family.

friendlyreminder ha! I do know what my parents weighed on the day they married! 9st 4 and 11 st 4, forever seared into my brain. I feel very dysregulated with food and it would have to be very stark to tell whether I'm genuinely hungry or not.

I remember her waking me at night when I was about 8 to offer me cheese on toast. I thought I'd better say yes, I don't know if/when she'll offer again. So your locus of hunger lives in someone else's stomach!

When I was about 8 I used to make fudge and toffee, obviously unsupervised. I did this successfully many times and was just the family toffee maker. Anyway one day I decided to make chocolate fudge instead and added cocoa powder. I didn't have the skill to do it properly or recognise whether it was brown from the cocoa or burning.

It was burning and i ruined the pan and the kitchen filled with smoke. Mother was in a towering rage about the ruination of the pan and the smoke.

I was utterly distraught trying to fix the awful thing I'd done and asking how much the pan was so I could pay her back. £13 was the answer.

When I was 14 I was staying at a friend's house. All planned and agreed and a fairly frequent occurrence.

In the middle of the night her parents came and woke me up. Mother was on the phone hysterical and said she was scared alone in the house and insisted i come home.

I had to walk alone on a country road with no street lights for about a mile in the middle of the night.

She didn't even come and pick me up, the car was sitting there.

I've been thinking about my monster ex sister a bit. She was very very much the gc, which genuinely was fine with me, I did my best to slide off under the radar.

She was abused too but in a different way. It's turned her into a really nasty covert narc piece of work. She's ended up really twisted.

@FriendlyReminder Yep no matter how batshit they are, they all follow a similar script. When people say 'oh I cant go NC, it wouldnt work, they wont let me, they/it are different'
It is hard to explain that actually you can, it will & sod them. Enmeshment binds people so they dont seek a better, happier, more healthy life. It is a shame.

I had similar. My mother was big and she would constantly comment on my weight telling me not to end up like her. That coupled with suppressing all my emotions( as it wasn't acceptable to express them) led to me struggling all my life. Mostly I have been overweight and I hated it but if I lose weight my body goes into self sabotage mode. I think partly I cant be slim for a few reasons. Number one is the desire to avoid male judgement and attention. So a kind of rebellion I suppose caused by some low level SA experienced alongside brothers who called me fat and ugly etc. No real malice from then just childhood teasing that was never challenged by my parents.
Secondly I have a complex pull between rebelling against my mother's expectations regarding my weight and feeling guilty for betraying her by being slim when her ( and my sister ,) are big.
Anyway it is all v messed up but my mum has lost a lot of weight on diabetic weight loss pills now and so for the first time ever she is slimmer than me. She is visiting next week and this will be the first time I have seen her at this weight and of course s luck would have it recent stresses have led to me gaining weight.
I know she will likely comment on that and I am stressed already but I am now a 60 Yr old woman and for the first time in a long time I am content with my size. I feel strong and safe at this weight and have no desire to impress anyone anymore so I intend to let it wash over me as best I can.
I just hope I can stand firm next week and not crumble in the face of others judgements and expectations.
As regards your own children. Well I never ever commented on my daughters weight ( or sons ) . One daughter is on the bigger side but has has 2 children in quick succession. The other is an average weight.
I only ever told them they were beautiful and both of them have no hangups about their weight and are confident and at home in their bodies as it were.
I see that as a huge win. The cycle broken finally.

Agree. I think one things these threads highlight again and again is that the bonkers behaviours are so similar across the generations / sexes/ socio economic groups. All the same dysfunction. Nothing new.

I broke a Pyrex dish once as a teenager. I put it under my bed as I didn’t want to have to own up to it. She found it and went ballistic. She went on and on for years about it as if I’d done it on purpose.

The only thing you did wrong was having your mum come over in the first place. You know she's toxic, ask yourself why is she having a relationship with your DC so she can poison them too?

Also note your eldest DD thinks everyone else's (your ex, your mum etc) word holds more weight than yours, even when you're there! It's something that needs correcting, DD isn't respecting you.

I'm glad you stood upto your mum anyway. That part was totally the right thing to do. Your mum owes you an apology. Don't you apologize even if she does first, you've done nothing wrong.

@FriendlyReminder my mum used to brag about how small she was on her wedding day too. It must be a thing! She had a 24" waist apparently. She even bragged about it in a bridal shop when I was looking for a dress. She told the assistant "my daughter has a small waist, but not as small as mine was" and she did a little wiggly dance as she said this with a smug look on her face.

My mum may have been petite on her wedding day, but that was probably the last time.

They just can’t help but put themselves in all situations and use it as way of getting a little ego hit. If it makes the other person feel small or hurts their feelings who cares as long as I get a little supply. It’s pathetic and feels really personal but they would actually have to see you first, which they don’t.

That's so sad, and so is the story about the chocolate fudge from the other poster. My own story is that I tried to bring a tea tray up to my grandmother for mother's day, tripped on the top step and dropped the tray, breaking the teapot (and, presumably, avoiding being burnt by the hot tea as I have no memory of that). What I do remember is her utter rage that went on and on, I said I would buy her another teapot but that was apparently impossible because it came from Hong Kong, I said I would save up and go there to buy one but oh no, they probably didn't sell them anymore, I was useless and clumsy and could never do anything right and she would never get over it. No mention of my good intentions or whether I had hurt myself. I was 8. EIGHT. Breaks my heart to think of me going through it.

The very worst thing was that my mother was there visiting and said absolutely nothing in the face of this ranting rage. It was my first sign of her own narcissism, it wasn't that she was too frightened or triggered to say anything (fgs she was a 28 year old woman) but she just ignored it.

That's so interesting, so they get supply from being 'better' and disregard the impact on the other person. Food for thought.

I made the mistake of watching Adolescence, DH watched it first and told me not to but DS wanted to talk about it and so I did. Really really upset by it and still trying to figure out why. I really should stick to things I know and trust in future 😑

From what I can understand they can’t balance themselves internally. Inside they are nothing and there is nothing, no internal voice to sooth them just a load of shame and unworthiness. So they need a constant supply of external proof that they are something. I think they are so desperate they will seek it and will manipulate a person to get it. Whereas if we feel a bit down or someone says something not so good we can internally say oh well and walk off, do something nice etc and be over it they need to create a situation to get supply to get over it. My ex when this happened at work and someone upset his ego he would come home to his supply (me) and manipulate me with a false story, create some victim sinario. If didn’t work or I didn’t feel sorry enough for him he’d activate one of my triggers to shame me and he’d feel powerful for effecting me and feel better. They can’t feel good on their own, they need proof and no they don’t care, they just a mask as no one would be with someone openly nasty.

What I find crazy is they use their own victim stories also. I wondered and I often asked my ex how come you’ve never needed therapy after what you witnessed. My Exs dad was a drunk and would abuse his mum in front of my ex. I heard many rape stories and ones with guns and smashing a bottle over his head when he was a teenager. He told the story seeking my empathy and boy did it work for a long time. Until you realise that they actually NEED therapy. They tell these stories and they aren’t affected at all, when they should be! It’s become there way of simply gaining supply.

I honestly think, in men that come from those families and continue the cycle of violence, that the empathy circuit in their brain doesn't function properly. It's not just the childhood environment. It's what else they inherited, because we get our parent's nervous system, too, or some version of it. They are victims, there's no denying that, but you can be a victim and a monster. The two aren't mutually exclusive. My father was one of several boys (big catholic family). All of the boys apart from one carried on the family legacy. One went to prison for manslaughter because he killed his wife. The brother who didn't moved away and had very little contact with the rest of the family. I think I only met him a couple of times. I remember him as being very kind. He never married and didn't have children of his own. Looking at it now, its very obvious to me that he was made differently to the others, and that's what enabled him to break the cycle in his own life.

I'm not sure that I'm explaining this very well. I think really what I'm trying to say is that my father could only cope with his anger by abusing other people, and the reason why that method worked for him was because of the way he was wired. He could have understood that about himself and , but I don't think he had it in him to be a cycle breaker. He had so little empathy that he was honestly shocked when he ended up divorced with his kids refusing to talk to him.