Friend pissed off with me as I can’t seem to control my irritation

[Friendproblem123]

Friends for a good few years. Live close by, and we’re in a tight friendship group of 4 as well as a wider group.
friend (let’s call her Jenny), has always been quite an alternative thinker, but has had a successful career which she’s recently retired from.

when I say alternative, examples would be:

vehemently anti vax, especially covid
believes in angels
is doing an online course in vortex healing
gets most of her opinions from Joe Rogan
thinks Trump is not all bad
thinks Elon musk also good

it’s never been too much of a problem, I generally live and let live, and some things are genuinely interesting as alternative viewpoints.

over the last 6 months or so, she’s been pulling me up in groups when I’ve pulled faces, rolled my eyes etc at some of the things she’s come out with, purely accidentally and haven’t even realised I’ve been doing it.

for wxample a few months ago the four of us were talking about trump’s picks for jobs. He’s chosen RFK as health minister and apparently he’s anti vax. I’d never heard of the guy but others were saying he’s a bit of a loon and apparently I rolled my eyes in the convo.

jenny told me off for being disrespectful.

i shrugged it off, put it down to Jenny being a bit unwell and overtired (she’s on a weird health program involving some seriously weird stuff).

few more times this happened, again I’d sort of apologise and try to gloss over it.

we all went away last weekend and it came to a head.

again we were sitting round, Jenny starts saying how amazing vortex healing is, I didn’t realise but she told me off for pulling a face.

mext day we were all having lunch.

jenny is talking about someone else and said “she’s like [friendproblem], she’s uneducated.

i ignored it.

next morning she asks me what the bible means when it says, if thine eye offends thee, pluck it out, and said does it mean if your friend isn’t getting on with you, stop seeing them.

i just said, dunno, maybe google it?

managed to get thru rest of weekend without any more incidents.

sorry this is so long.

my other friends have also remarked on her more extreme views, like taking ivermectin to cure covid etc, but they seem much better at not reacting. They tend to just go silent, change subject or walk away.

if we weren’t all practically next door to each other and very enmeshed it would be easy to just drop and block, but that isn’t really possible.

so my question is, do i:

still see her, entertain all this angel/woo bollocks
ask for a talk to clear the air, with no real expectation that she’ll see my point of view
avoid seeing her at all, which will also affect my friendship with the others.

sorry this is ridiculously long but it’s really affecting me.

Exactly this IMO

Agreed. This isn't live and let live at all. It's bitchy. You aren't her friend.

If you challenged her views, could you have a respectful conversation or would she take it really badly? She must know that her views are not mainstream and that declaring her support/liking for Trump and Musk is a provocative position which others are likely to disagree with.

I wouldn't enjoy her company so would stop seeing her.

Do you only all go out as a flock? Can't you meet just her to explain that you are as worried about her woo-woo world view as she is about your 'uneducared-ness'?
You can discuss whether or not you can get over the issues the opposing views causes (your eye-rolliing and tutting, her comments) or not.
Tbh, it seems a bit daft that you can't drop her without it affecting your friendhip with others

Ok to all those who think the OP is unreasonable for inadvertently rolling her eyes. Hands up who didn’t roll their eyes at this update. I felt myself do it.

OP you need to practice poker face and diversion tactics. If she pulls you up on it just apologise and say that she is clearly upset by your opposing views so let’s not discuss these topics then ask her about her recent other hobbies.

unfortunately as she’s now retired this is very unlikely to get any better and eventually she will alienate everyone else too so won’t be invited anymore and it’ll be a non issue.

I'd call her out a say stop talking to me like I'm a F ing child, everyone here does the same thing but it's always me you call out, if you wasn't so f ing batshit crazy people wouldn't role their eyes.
See where it goes from there

At least her views aren't complete bollocks! Anti-vaxxers can do one, and anyone who believes ivermectin can treat Covid needs their head examining. I'd be rolling my eyes too!

You're assuming this; why not be a friend and ask her why she's become a bit odd and that you all are worried about her.
For all you know, she could have an organic brain disease, or developing MH issues.

I couldnt be friends with someone who chuntered on about such claptrap and called me uneducated for believing in science and facts.
And the obtuse yet offensive biblical reference? Puh-lease 😅

I'd be organising individual meetups with the rest of the group.

@Billybagpuss Guilty as charged. 😁

Freedom of speech, innit? You have the right to say what you want, but you also have to deal with the consequences of talking utter shite. (The caveat being violence is always unacceptable.)

I don't for a second believe that you cannot control your own face.

It reminds me of those people who just have to "speak the truth" and so say things like "no offence, but you've put on weight and I hate your dress....you know me, can't help it, I just tell the truth 🤷‍♀️"

As if they have no control over being incredibly rude. You absolutely can choose not to roll your eyes. So don't be so nasty and do that.

If you want to disagree with her or challenge her do so respectfully.

I don't know how you put up with it! But if she's willing to spout her views, you're entitled to have your say. Instead of eye-rolling etc., engage with the topic. Ask her (politely) what evidence she has. Or say something like 'That's interesting. I wonder why that's not more widely known?' Or just tell her you don't believe it and think such ideas are unfounded or even dangerous - and back that up with evidence.

It sounds to me as though you’ve outgrown your friendship - you have starkly differing values and beliefs and, despite what you say about ‘live and let live’, it seems you find it hard to live that mantra when you feel someone is rubbing your face in their alternative beliefs and expecting passive acceptance of their life choices and beliefs. The fact that you cannot poker face is obviously rude, but is it is also a sign that this makes you uncomfortable and that you really find it hard to tolerate. I would too.

I think you have two options - you stop seeing her (you are not obliged to maintain a friendship if it brings nothing but conflict on both sides, and especially if it makes you uncomfortable), or you have a candid conversation where you ask that politics and her views on the other stuff is not discussed when you get together. To be honest, I think you have to take the first option as it is not fair on the {ex} friend for her to have to censor herself, either. I know I’d begin ghosting her and seeing your other friends separately. I wouldn’t be able to feign politeness in the face of batshit beliefs and I wouldn’t feel it was right that I should have to. Time to go separate ways.

"next morning she asks me what the bible means when it says, if thine eye offends thee, pluck it out, and said does it mean if your friend isn’t getting on with you, stop seeing them.

i just said, dunno, maybe google it?"

😂😂😂 Your reply made me laugh out loud OP!
But seriously, no, you can't roll your eyes at your friend, that's really rude.

I've had friends over the years make some batshit conversations, you just need to keep your calm face on, practice your polite noises "oh, really, mmhmm", and change the subject ASAP. Or, take the opportunity to get up and go to the toilet/get a drink/check on whatever you can think of.

If she tries to actively get your opinion during the convo, just calmly say "I don't know, I'm not really into that stuff" or whatever non-judgemental way you can think of saying it.

You're going to have to do this if you don't want to lose the whole group as well.

As hilarious as you’re being here, you clearly don't like her. I think we all know what we’re doing with our own faces in terms of eye rolling etc. why don’t you just end the friendship? You don’t like her and you show her that with passive aggressive facial expressions and taking the piss out of her on here. Tell her you don’t like her, that you think she’s insane or whatever and terminate the friendship. It’s the adult thing to do. Unless you want everyone else at the meet ups to join in the eye rolling with you so that you ‘win’. Seriously though… what’s the point? You can’t stand her anymore and you’re using your face to tell her. Use your words and actions.

She sounds rude and annoying and shouldn'tbe pushing her views on you. However don't assume your views are always correct because they are mainstream. Ivermectin for example has been proven to help with covid. It's just cheap and off label so drug companies don't push it as they can't make much money off it. The media joined in dismissing this long established medicine developed for use on humans as a horse dewormer. It can also be used for that but that's not what it won the Nobel prize for.

The history of thought and science is full of people and ideas dismissed as crazy because they went against established orthodoxies.

You sound incredibly immature and disrespectful. I think it’s really important to hear other people’s views and beliefs, it makes life interesting and opens the mind.

would you rather just sit in an echo chamber of your own thoughts?

I think you need to get better at poker faces. If it were your senior boss at work spouting rubbish like this I expect you’d manage to keep a straight face, I mostly think these things are controllable and it’s a choice not to.

** you’re absolutely right, problem is I don’t even realise I’m doing it. Certainly not done on purpose.

If you're rolling your eyes with her maybe you also do it with other people.

It's more respectful to say you disagree & that's the end of it.

'ask for a talk to clear the air, with no real expectation that she’ll see my point of view'

Why should she when you pull faces and roll your eyes at her

OP she sounds unhinged but you’ve posted on the wrong place, lot of people on here have similarly mental views. I he a work colleague who was very similar and it’s really hard, I think maybe a conversation to say let’s not talk about stuff that we disagree about, the problem is these people generally can’t do that and want to ram it down peoples throats! I am an awful eye roller and my face is very obvious what I’m thinking so I sympathise, try texting her and saying Im sorry if I’ve offended you but I find some of your opinions quite offensive can we both agree to disagree?

i don’t know some people deserve to be ridiculed for their views. Freedom of thought and all that but not all thoughts were made equally or warrant equal air time. This woman just sounds like a nutter

I don't think this is always true though. I would be happy to hear views different to mine but only within what I think is an acceptable spectrum of opinion. I wouldn't want to listen to deeply racist views to "open my mind" for example. For me Anti Vax views aren't something I think people need to be open minded about as they've been proved to be very dangerous. I wouldn't roll my eyes (apart from inwardly) but I would challenge them and probably begin to distance myself from the friendship. It sounds like OPs friend is constantly ramming them down her friends throats which must be tedious.

Not surprised you are getting a bit of a kicking as quite a worrying amount of posters on mumsnet seem to be heading down these rabbit holes though.

I think YABU
You're being disrespectful.
She is who she is.
You clearly don't think much of her, so either say nothing or move on.

Let her go. You don’t like her and your treatment of her is quite bitchy. If you don’t vibe, you don’t vibe.