Lying in a relationship...

[AreHisPantsOnFire]

I have a pretty much zero tolerance on lying.

It's from a combination of childhood trauma and previously being married to a pathological liar who lied about absolutely everything due to being brought up by alcoholic parents.

I'm really sensitive to it and once I've discovered someone is lying to me, it rewrites the whole relationship in my head.

Eg tell me I look nice if you think I do but don't tell I'm beautiful because I'm not. If I ask for your opinion on something, it's because I actually want your opinion/perspective and not because I want you to flatter me by blowing smoke up my arse or to say what you think i want to hear.

I think this situation saying to sound pretty inconsequential to some but I hope people will respond given the whole context.

I think I have examples of my partner telling very small, inconsequential, pointless little lies in our relationship. But it makes me question the whole thing because, well, if someone lies, then they lie.

Eg. My partner gets up for work at 6.15am and leaves at 6.30am. I don't need to get up until 7. Sometimes, I wake up when his alarm goes off and sometimes I sleep straight through and sometimes I'm roused enough to he aware but I'm still not fully conscious and appear asleep to him.

He'll say things to me like, "You were still fast asleep when I left this morning. You didn't even stir when I kissed you and told you I love you." It's comment worthy because my sleep isn't every good generally and I can often be awake for good parts of the night so he's really commenting on that and saying I appear to have slept well.

But. Some of the times he's said this, I've been aware/conscious of him leaving but I know he hasn't kissed me or said anything. (Sometimes he does.)

It's like a weevil now burying into my thoughts. For example, when he tells me he's doing overtime on a Saturday morning, I feel I can't take it at face value. Sometimes, he'll come back and talk about it and, on those occasions, I know it's genuine. But sometimes he'll say nothing at all. No complaint about it, or comment on who was in and, if I ask how it went, he'll just say, "It was work." But he rarely has nothing to say about work so it makes me wonder.

Eg I know others won't agree with this but for my own personal reasons, I don't watch films with sex or unnecessary female nudity in. He knows this and he knows my reasons why. He will spend ages painstakingly choosing a film for us to watch together and checking the content before we watch something together. He has never made me feel in the wrong for this or complained.

I've also never cocommented on anything he chooses to watch without me. Sometimes (around once a week or so) I go to bed early to read so that he can watch something of his own choice where he doesn't have to be quite so vigilant.

The issue is that he has also volunteered that he doesn't like it either. He says he doesn't watch films with sex scenes (doesn't like it apparently) and he doesn't like gratuitous female nudity either. He parrots my sentiments and agrees with me wholeheartedly. I've never asked him to. I've told him my perspective but never questioned his or challenged him. Just explained so that he knows and understands. But I know I'm quite unusual in that respect.

But I can see from his 'continue watching' or series he has seen or conversations he has with others about films they've watched that he is absolutely watching stuff with (sometimes) lots of sex and nudity in it. So why the lie?

It just makes me question everything he says mentally.

I'm not really bothered if he kisses me and says he loves me before he goes to work if I'm still alseep and I'm not particularly bothered what he watches without me. But the fact he lies about these things makes me wonder what other more consequential lies there are that I'm unaware of. Like when he says he fancies me or I look nice or he loves me are those lies too? It's creating a general feeling of mistrust for me that I don't like.

Is lying like this normal in a relationship? Would you be bothered?

But beautiful? I'm not beautiful and i dont need to be told that I am.

Beauty is very definitely an opinion, not a fact. Therefore if he truly believes you are beautiful he is not lying, even if 99% of people would disagree with him.

You see lies as deliberate untruths, but some people feel that deliberately omitting information is lying.

He could just as easily say you're lying to him by pretending to be asleep in the morning, or suspecting he's doing something other than overtime and not talking to him about it, or withholding that you're tying yourself up in knots about his viewing habits.

If you really want 100% honesty from him, offer it in return. Have you been 100% honest about posting on here to discuss him?
Hold yourself to the same standards.

None of this would bother me - if he thinks you are beautiful he is entitled to say so… its not your choice and they are not your feelings, they are his and it is normal for someone to express that in a loving relationship.

I hate violent films/ programs I go to bed early a few nights so my DH watches them then, whether they are violent is an opinion. Take peaky blinders I had heard it was violent, my DH said some bits were, but overall it isn’t really. This isn’t a lie it’s his opinion.

If you haven’t watched the film/ programme how do you know how much nudity is in it - and how do you know whether your partner thinks its a lot or not! You don’t.

With kindness your opinion is not the same as his.

The kiss thing in the morning- is he blowing you a kiss? Is it he is whispering he loves you and you can’t hear it? Have you called him out when he says he kissed you and you know he hasn’t- what did he say?

I hate lying too and I understand this is linked to trauma but I think overall he is trying hard to meet your needs - it must be exhausting having to really think about everything he says just in case its questioned. It’s also exhausting for you wondering if he is lying about other things. Would couples counselling help find ways to provide you with the communication you need from him? and to provide some flexibility around your expectations of him?

Hmmm - I think the 2 examples you’ve given are possibly less conclusive that you think. Sometimes when I’m awake in the night I don’t think I’ve gone to sleep but I look at my watch and more time has passed than I think so I must have been asleep. In your situation he might be talking about kissing you goodbye and saying he loves you without necessarily referring to or remembering the specific situation that morning (or you might just have dozed off).

he might agree with you in principal about gratuitous nudity etc but also want to want a program with nudity in it because overall he thinks it looks good. I wouldn’t necessarily seek out violence for example but I might watch a violent program if I thought it generally looked good.

To be honest you sound like really hard work, and I would find you to be hard work as a friend never mind a partner . I feel for you in that it must be exhausting to be continually on the watch for lies , and in fact you sound as though you are actively looking for something to catch your husband out on. I don’t like lies either ( who does!) but I couldn’t cope with someone who continually was weighing everything I said in case it was a lie - particularly as in some of your examples the statements are opinions not matters of fact .

But the tv thing is not necessarily a deliberate untruth. He can not like sex scenes AND still watch them.

Ditto beautiful. It's subjective. Stop telling him what he can think.

It's his opinion. Not a lie.

I'd be walking on eggshells around you.

Stop telling him what he can think.

Agree.

Agreed.
OP, you sound pretty intense.
I’m imagining a perma scowl and clenched jawline, yikes!

Jesus Christ, I hardly ever gone down on a blokes side, but poor bloke. This is no way for him to live. He deserves to be in a relationship where he can be himself. Even if you haven't specifically asked him to tie himself in knots for you; he's evidently toy doing it because he feels he has to.

He's probably turned into a habitual liar because of the OP though.

Also every single person on this world tells white lies. Every one. Even you OP and I won't believe that you've never told a lie in your life.

So you forensically examine his every action to look for lies and then use that to put each of those actions through the worst possible lens? So you can throw accusations at him, which he then has to apologize for .

And you expect him to voluntarily live the rest of his life like that?

I surprised he isn’t an anxious wreck already.

I was listening to a podcast this evening that said regardless of whether a relationship ends you should aim to leave the other person the same or better than how you found them. You aren’t doing that.

And do you know what the worst part of it is- we all know that if you forget something or misremember or just make a mistake you will expect him to see it as just forgetting. You won’t ever volunteer to have yourself labeled with the LIAR slur you’re so happy to throw about.

Is he walking on eggshells?

Some of the times he's said this, I've been aware/conscious of him leaving but I know he hasn't kissed me or said anything. (Sometimes he does.)

OP you may not recall because you are in fact asleep even though you think you haven't been. I have had this type of experience with my DP when he has insisted I was snoring but I said I can't have been as I wasn't asleep. It was at that time when I was drifting off but think I hadn't been asleep, when in fact I had been in the light stages of sleep and didn't remember.

I do think this problem is with you and not your DH who seems to be tiptoeing around you.

Haven’t read all the comments but your post resonated with me as when I married my husband (after not knowing him long) I found out he was like this . He was a compulsive liar and a few months into our marriage I thought I had gone from one bad relationship to another . I said I didn’t want to be with him any more as some the lies I found out about were whoppers . Laughable really . I’m actually older than him too. I gave him an ultimatum for him to get some help It was that or a divorce, I’d already had one bad marriage and didn’t want to go down that route again He went to see a counsellor for help. Turns out he was a very insecure man for various reasons from his childhood past and thought I was above his league and needed to lie to impress me . I’m straight down the line and hate lies. We made it work and he’s a changed man. 30 years married now .

Maybe I’m getting triggered now but I get it OP. The harmless lie you’ve caught him out in, is causing you to question other things that he’s said.

I find it strange that he says he kissed you goodbye when he obviously didn’t. I’d also be wondering if he’s lying about other things too.

instead of twisting yourself in knots about it, why not just ask him the next time he says it, and you know for certain he’s fibbing? See how he responds. That should give you some clarity.

And always trust your gut!

You / the OP are the problem. You / the OP would've told a small lie in your time. Every body has.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder .
I do also think you need therapy and are hyper vigilant . I also can’t stand lies. . I get it and I do think it comes from the past .

Would you try therapy ? It may make you realise he isn’t the man for you. Maybe it’s you maybe it’s him . Maybe it’s one off those things and you are just very different.

I’ve a new found confidence again lately and I'm getting callled beautiful . I would scoff at that in the past and think what a Lier or charmer. .
Now I will take it .
As beauty is more then supermodel looks

I can't stand lying and that includes white lies. Dishonesty is dishonesty.

Read the book 'Lying' by Sam Harris. It explains very well why white lies are pernicious.

I appreciate the responses.

It's hard to explain because I can see that some people have interpreted it as poor him, he has no choice but to lie because I'm hyper vigilant and always on his case. A white lie here and there protects him from that and its unfortunate that he is forced to live a carefully managed truth and tip toe around me, tying himself in knots so as not to upset me.

When the reality is that my hyper vigilance is a response to noticing the lies rather than the cause of it.

Eg I understand what people are saying in some respects like maybe he's kissed me when I've drifted back off to sleep and I've been unaware. But on many occasions, I've heard him bring me a coffee, put it down by the bed and walk out. I've heard the bedroom door close. I know he hasn't. It's not a big deal so why lie about it?

There are a other little things he's told me that, over time that I had no reason to doubt that he's later gone on to contradict. Some of them I've queried and he always replies with the same "I didn't say that. It's not true so I wouldn't have said it." When he did.

The examples I gave in my OP were just things that came into my mind when I started the thread.

But there are others.

Again, it's not the only example but easy to explain. I've only met his ex wife a few times. They split up years ago and he had another relationship between her and me.

The first time I met her was because she'd turned up at an event he and I were both at. I spoke with her for a while. She was friendly, said if he and I were ever in the neighbourhood we should pop in etc and afterwards told him and said she'd seemed nice. He said she was.

The next time we bumped into her in similar circumstances, she was very different. She didn't acknowledge me, didn't smile when I smiled at her and ignored me when I said hello. I didn't think too much of it at the time. But then it happened again, only the next time she just stood in front of me staring at me. I mentioned it to him and he said that was strange and very unlike her. He said that she'd never done it before and he couldnt imagine her being like that.

Similar happened a few more times and, whilst she didnt speak to me, her manner and behaviour became more hostile and aggressive. But I didn't say anything because he'd told me that wasn't in her nature and I didn't want it to become a 'thing' - the last thing I'm interested in is drama or conflict with an ex but it felt very uncomfortable.

Anyway, then there was another event that she was likely to also be at and, by then, I felt so uncomfortable with it, I told him I wasn't going. No a big deal, just I'm going to give it a miss tonight. After all, he didn't see it and she hadn't been like it before which meant it was a 'me' issue so I just wanted to remove myself.

We had a conversation about it and he then admitted that she'd also done it to his previous exgf, and they'd argued loads about it because it had made her feel really uncomfortable and had upset her.

I'd been the one trying not to make a big deal out of it and hiding my own discomfort and worrying about making a fuss and all because he'd lied to me.

That situation has been resolved now but there are others where I now find myself wondering is that the truth though? Or just what you want me to think it's the truth?

It makes me wonder about and doubt everything I've ever just accepted at face value.

The problem is that I don't know how many of these lies there are. I've discovered a few, suspect a few more and am.aware there are probably others I'll never know about.

The thing is, I'm actually pretty easy going. I don't care if he's late home because he's gone for a drink and he knows that so there'd be no reason to lie and I don't care if he forgets to do something. I didn't care about bumping into his ex socially initially and, if I'd known the hostility was just something she did and we could roll our eyes at it together, then that wouldn't have particularly bothered me either but i felt i was alone in it and coupdnt tell him.how i felt.

His lies are unnecessary, stupid and pointless and are the only things we've ever had cross words about because now I feel like I can't trust him and I don't know whether the lies are just a stupid attempt to avoid a conflict that wasn't going to happen anyway or whether he's actually trying to conceal things from me.

I understand what people are saying about the beautiful thing.

But it's not really about whether he thinks it or not or whether beauty is subjective or not.

I'm aware of that. And that's what I used to think but now it's just become a reminder that I can't take what he says at face value.

Do you like him? Do you think he’s lovely? What sort of friend is he?

That's the thing. I do like him.

I love him but not in a toxic "but I love him so I'll put up with anything" way.

The lying is starting to grate because that is toxic and so is its impact.

He's a very good friend. He's a good friend to me and a good friend to others. He is lovely.

But I'm starting to question how well I actually know him because I don't know what of what he says is true and what is not. Even just his thoughts amd opinions.

Op I’m wondering if one of your caregivers was evasive or dishonest? I might be way off the mark but what was your parent’s relationship like?

This is a you problem and you need to get some help asap before you push this person away who obviously puts up with a lot because he loves you.