WWYD - NC parent asking to meet my DC

[Shefliesonherownwings]

I'll try to keep this short but it's a complicated story. I've been NC with my dad for 5 years. I'm an only child and we've always had a very up and down relationship. Growing up he was volatile, shouty, sometimes physical, controlling and suffocating. But could also be very loving and kind and generous. As a I grew up and developed opinions that were different to his, we clashed massively. I've always hated how he treats my mum, and dominates her but they're still married.

5 years ago my DD died suddenly and unexpectedly during labour. Obviously it was devastating and horrific. Unfortunately at a time when everyone around us was trying to make things better, my dad made things worse. I think grief thief is the correct term. Then when I told him how his behaviour had upset me, I got a load of abuse back so I cut contact. I still speak to my mum regularly but rarely see her because of his control.

Over the past year or so his health has worsened significantly and my mum is pretty much his full time carer. He can't really be left on his own for very long. I have thought about reaching out and seeing him given his failing health but then he'll say or do something that makes me realise he's the same old narcissitic selfish man. Today he messaged me directly asking to meet his grandchildren who are 4 and 20 months. His message contains some of the old BS, such as 'don't forget I was a very good father to you', (he wasn't IMO) and 'I ask you to let me see them before it is too late' etc... which doesn't make me want to expose my kids to him. But equally I am wavering because I know he is genuinely pretty unwell and he may not be here much longer and do I want to regret not introducing them? I'm, so torn, I don't know how to manage this. Any advice?

This decision has to come from you and you alone. I would just advise that you guard yourself against emotional manipulation and only do it if you truly want to, rather than because he's guilted you into it.

I’m so sorry for your loss. It sounds like you’ve gone through the most horrendous time and he’s made things even worse.

He had a chance to make amends when you explained your feelings to him, but he didn’t take that chance. Instead he compounded your grief by throwing abuse your way at a time when you must have been utterly broken.

His abuse didn’t work to get you to comply, so now he’s using guilt.

Is he terminally ill or just using poor health as a stick to guilt you into submission, with?

What about your health if you allow this to happen? How will your mental health be impacted and how will that in turn impact your children?

Has he apologised yet? Has his behaviour changed?

All questions to consider.

I'm sorry - this sounds really difficult.

Has your dad ever apologised for how he reacted after your dd died?

Do you think he will bring anything positive to the lives of your dc? Is it in their best interests to see him? How do you feel about it? Will it bring up painful feelings for you?

Don't be guilted into letting them see him. Only take them if you think it's the best thing for them. 💐

Your children are the priority in this situation.

Are there any benefits to your children in meeting your volatile, shouty, physical, controlling, suffocating father? If so, what are they?

I wouldn't. I didn't.

You're NC with your father for good reason. That hasn't changed. In fact he's showing his unpleasantness in the way he's trying to emotionally blackmail you into meeting your children. (Mine did the same).

Ultimately what made my final decision was the benefit to my children. What benefit would they gain from meeting a nasty old man who used bulling and blackmail to get his way in life? No benefit whatsoever.

What benefit would they get from briefly meeting a man who was dying (in our case very imminently) in a situation that would be difficult and awkward. No benefit whatsoever.

He's not said "I'm sorry for everything, I'd love to see you and meet the children if you'd be OK with that"
He's told you that he was a good dad (ie. Everything was your fault not his) and tried to guilt you into doing what he wants using his health.
He's not changed at all.

You are NC for a reason. If he weren't poorly, would you be wanting to see him? Don't let guilt trip you into making a decision that would only benefit him, and cause detriment to you.

To be blunt, a nasty man is still a nasty man even if he's dying.

My nan was nc by the whole family since I was 8 and requested to meet my DC when they were primary age. I mentioned to dh and he didn't even realise she was still alive.

We went, I am glad we did, the DC were thrilled to have a great grandmother and she was nice to them. We never went again and she died several years later.

DC still mention the visit occasionally so I think they valued it but we have a tiny family so it might matter more to them than to DC with a wide family.

I assume your dad would be nice to the DC. If he's difficult with you I assume the DC won't notice but it sounds like it's the last interaction you'll have with him so it's a risk for you.

In the grand scheme of things it probably doesn't matter, your baby won't remember and the 4yo is unlikely to. If it'll impact your mh just don't go.

He was emotionally and physically abusive when you were a child and he made the tragic death of your daughter all about himself. He sounds like an abusive narcissist and not a safe person to have around your lovely children.

He's trying to re-write history in saying that he was a good father to you as a child when you know that the opposite is true and he has not acknowledged his own terrible behaviour. He could have used his message to apologise to you but he didn't. Don't let him meet your children. He doesn't deserve to and he would be a damaging presence in your children's lives.

I'm so sorry.

How do you think meeting him might affect your children?

It's possible he might go off in front of them about how you'd kept them apart from their loving grandad.

How would you manage that?

As time goes on I have less and less sympathy for women who choose abusive men over their children. Sadly your mother chose him.

But you can break that cycle, you can choose them.

I'd say stay strong, say no.

Only you can decide if you want to satisfy his sense of entitlement, that’s all it is, entitlement.

Thank you all, lots to think about. To answer a few questions, no he’s never apologised for his behaviour. About 11 months after DDs death he sent me an email telling me he accepted he was partly to blame (not sure what I was to blame for, but he’d had a very difficult childhood and he had been really struggling with DDs death etc…So a non apology and more of the same me me me narrative.

I don’t know how he’d be in front of the kids. I’ve never seen him around young children. I wouldn’t take them to their house, that would be a recipe for disaster because they’re boisterous boys and if they broke something it would be hellish.

To be completely honest, I want him to leave me alone. This isn’t the first time he’s reached out, either directly or through my mum and every time I get a knot in my stomach. I have mostly ignored the texts and in the end asked my mum to stop giving me messages from him which she has.

If he wasn’t ill, I wouldn’t be interested in reaching out. He still scares me, and has that hold on me. He clearly doesn’t respect boundaries so if we did meet and I said I didn’t want to talk about DD for example I doubt he’d respect that. If we did meet and things went wrong, I’d just get up and leave with the kids.

I think the fact he hasn’t apologised is the key issue for me which shows he doesn’t take responsibility for his behaviour. Also I can’t get over some of the things he said and did the night before DDs funeral for example. He literally threw a tantrum at dinner and again made it all about him when I was burying my child the next day. I also cannot understand why he couldn’t just say he was sorry and didn’t realise what he’d done when I told him how he’d upset me. Surely that’s what any normal reasonable person would do. I thought I might be able to move past it but I just can’t.

I don’t want to see him but I don’t want to live with regrets either. I know all too well how short life is so I really don’t want to regret anything.

You wrote that you do not want to see him.

Toxic Parents more often than not make for being toxic as grandparents too. Time has not mellowed him, he’s still making demands of you.

If he is too difficult for you to deal with it’s the same deal for your kids too. This is who he is and he has not changed at all. I would not subject myself, let alone my children to this narcissistic man. He will make any visit all about him and may well demand further visits too.

If you think you might regret not going, then go and see him with your kids. Just once. If you leave and think why the hell did I do that, then you have your answer - you tried at least.

If you go and it’s okay, that’s fine. And then you can maybe think do I want to go again. Edit as I just saw the next post and she’s totally right: it’s unlikely one visit will be enough for him.

It’s so hard, I know.

Remember: he’s had his life and made his decisions around how to treat people and his choices led to this.

You are totally allowed to make your own decisions and choices just like he was.

No. Don’t go. Write him a letter. And leave the relationship in the past. Your boys will not remember the meeting,or, if they do they will remember your terror and sadness. Meanwhile you will put yourself through grief again for no benefit.

I think for me it would boil down to 'is meeting him in the best interests of the DCs'? If you think they would benefit then maybe grit your teeth and do it. If there's potential of harm, or at best no actual benefit, then why would you?

I don’t see what children of those ages would get from that meeting. I certainly don’t see what you would get. Even if he pulled it off by not being a dick, he still has the capacity to be that dick so it it a type of emotional Russian roulette.

Could it be that this dilemma is coming more from the remaining hold he has over you than one of right/wrong?
i.e. from that sense of fear, obligation and guilt (FOG) they talk about in abusive relationships?

If just hearing about him scared you, it does sound like you'd be doing it to avoid his anger and maybe even protect your Mum..But I could be projecting.

So sorry for your loss.

To the extent you owe him anything (which you don’t) it lies in the relationship he had to you as a father. If he wrecked that there is nothing to be done. Your children start fresh and clearvof that abuse. They must not be sacrificed on the altar of his desire for grandchildren or goodbyes or anything sentimental and besides the point.

He can ask for a visit with you—and he can offer an apology or a gesture to make that possible for you given all his abuse. But he can’t command it.

I don’t think you will regret it if you hold your boundaries and don’t see him. Block him and repeat to your mum your request to not hear about or from him.

He is a toxic horrible man who is now reaping what he has sown- he has no right to see your lovely children and nothing to offer them.

Absolutely not.
You owe him nothing.
Don't allow this awful man near your children.
Block him.

The kids won't get anything out of it, but they are also very unlikely to remember it. This is a plus.

I wouldn't blame you for just saying no, but I would also understand you agreeing to it to allow a meeting before his death. If you did do it, I would meet somewhere neutral and that you can exit easily, tell him that it'll be a short meeting and if he harasses you at all you will leave. And mean it. Take another adult with you, so that if you do reach a 'that's it, leaving now' point, someone else can do the bits like pick up the kids' stuff, or settle the bill, that might slow you down and make you more unsettled.

It's okay to say no. The guilt and fear you'll feel are a symptom of how he's treated you all your life. It isn't okay and his message shows he hasn't changed.

Reply and block him. He doesn't respect your boundaries so you need to put them in place to protect yourself and your headspace so you can be there for your own children.

Hi Dad

My children and being a good parent for them comes first for me. I'm sorry but we won't be visiting as I don't believe it is best for them or me to see you.

Please respect my wishes and do not contact me again.

Shefliesonherownwings

It's a myth that you might feel regret at some point if you do not go. You've already done the hard work of mourning the father you've never had. The reasons you are NC are the same reasons that make you want to be left alone by him.
I can't see any benefit to your children if you take them, but there's the possibility that you might be disappointed and upset with the visit and will want to kick yourself later for having delivered your lovely children to him.
I don't like the entitlement of dismissing his relationship with you but feeling entitled to see your children.

The other school of thought is go because it's the 'right' thing to do, this is what I did but I wished I hadn't. But I wouldn't know that if I hadn't gone. The thing is there is no right way when things have gone that far, everything is off.
Try to do what feels right in your heart, wether it's not going, going on your own or with your DCs, but whatever you do, do it for them and yourself, not for him.

This is tricky

You sound like you hate him

I must admit I feel for him if he is dying and wanting to see you all

Why not ask for an apology before you visit?

On the plus side He is unlikely to do any harm to your boys during a quick visit