Husband arranged to meet up with ex and didn't tell me

[mairimhor]

My (35F) husband (41M) has arranged to meet up with his ex on a trip away for work and lied to me about it.

Some context:

• We have been together for 11 years and have 2 children aged 5&4

• When we met, they had already been broken up for 10 years, they got together at 15, broke up at 18 and in his words 'went in different directions' around uni, careers etc

• She is also married with 2 children and they live in another part of the country, to my knowledge they have never met up while we've been together

• He has always been open with me about having sporadic communication with her (Christmas, birthdays etc) and over the years we have discussed past relationships openly and without judgement. She encouraged him off a bad path after a shitty childhood so I always even felt grateful to her for being a person who had previously loved and looked out for him

• I had two serious relationships before him and have not ever been in communication with either of them, although both ended badly whereas his was more amicable

Given the time and the context and the fact that our marriage is otherwise strong, I wouldn't have been bothered if he'd said "oh by the way, X is in London too on this day and we're going for a drink". I wouldn't for a second have suspected anything and given the fact it's over 20 years ago now, would probably even have thought it was nice for him to have something to do on a work trip as I know he finds the evenings dull. If it did make me uncomfortable I wouldn't have expected him not to do it as I wouldn't have reasonably had cause to ask him not to - I'd have given myself a talking to.

BUT he has been planning this for weeks and lied to me about it.
I went on his laptop to show our son details of a trip we have planned and found that they have discussed meeting up for a while. There is nothing inappropriate on her part and only a couple of borderline comments from him (I like your picture, putting a kiss at the end) - and then a concrete plan to go for a meal done quite practically but over a couple of weeks while they considered different dates and got various things approved by work.

He mentioned she had messaged to say happy new year but said nothing about this. Over Christmas we had a conversation where past relationships came up in a different context and it wasn't mentioned. I then discussed his work trip with him on another occasion where he said he had no plans for the evening. He then brought it up on a third occasion where I explicitly asked if he had evening plans and he said "no but I might meet up with (male friend) and then later 'maybe I'll try and arrange meeting up with one of my friends in London'." I took all these at face value at the time but now know that he'd had a plan for weeks when he said these things.

I feel like that's two occasions where he's hidden this and two where he's actively lied to my face.

I know I have to raise this with him as it is eating me up inside. Even when other things in our marriage have been challenging (bereavements, professional challenges, parenthood, health issues) I have never doubted his honesty and until today would have said we had a great relationship. We have weathered some really difficult times together and always explicitly discussed issues within our relationship.

I feel that after 11 years of being a great husband and father I can't go down the 'dramatic confrontation' or tricking him route and I 100% do not want to end my marriage. I want to deal with this in a grown up, honest and loving way that doesn't undermine our trust in the long term. I think there's a chance that he hasn't told me as he doesn't know how I'll react, but isn't intending anything bad. I'm also not prepared to spy on him or go behind his back. I probably shouldn't have even read his messages but we have never kept anything like that from each other - we would give each other our phones to reply to people etc - and honestly I was just being nosey.

The actual event is planned for next week. At the moment I plan to give him a chance to tell me the truth before he goes. If at any point he is upfront with me I am honestly prepared just to let it go given the context. If he isn't then I will speak to him when he gets back. But if this happens I have absolutely no idea what to say, or where this leaves me. Help :(

It would interesting to know if her husband knows...
On the evidence presented so far, he's got a crush, I'm not so sure about her.

I wondered this. From her messages she clearly sees it as an old friend, it's things like "oh I'm so glad you're doing well" "your job sounds great" and comments about parenting and she never writes more than a line or so. I even get that, given when they met he was facing challenges and she encouraged him a lot, that he would want her particularly to know that he was happy and had done well. It's the lying

I would discuss it with him and say something to the effect of:
”I know you are meeting [ex] for dinner next week. I’m a little bit hurt that you didn’t tell me despite the topic coming up and you saying you were meeting [male friend]. I’m not worried about you meeting [ex]. I know our relationship is solid. We’ve been through a lot, such as (list the things you mentioned above) but I admit I’m disappointed and hurt that you didn’t trust me enough to tell me. How would you feel if the situation was reversed and you had no idea where I was or who I was with. Would that be acceptable behaviour?”

She was his “first love” as it were. He may always hold a candle for her, and that’s absolutely okay as long as he remembers it is in the past. I don’t think this is relationship ending by any stretch at the moment, but a gentle but firm reminder of the good things you have together/what he could lose, and acknowledgment that secrecy around where he is and who he is with is absolutely not okay will hopefully wise him up. Nip this in the bud.

I take the point about raising it before he goes and might do that. I think he is probably getting a bit of a secret thrill out of it if I'm honest and, being brutally honest with myself, I've had occasions where I've found coworkers etc attractive or known they fancied me, and it's just been a nice little mental/confidence boost never acted on that didn't affect my relationship. I don't expect to spend a lifetime with someone without ever facing temptation. So I don't begrudge him the feeling - what I object to is the lies. I also think he might worry about my reaction as I am quite vocal about my views

I think it's important to pour cold water over it before he meets her.

Because if he's enjoying the thrill, he might be tempted to drink a bit too much at dinner and let "one thing lead to another"... after all, what mairimhor doesn't know can't hurt her.

You don't have to go in all hardline and accusatory, but he does need a wake-up call.

Her intentions may be honourable, his sound a little....skewed.

As you say, he has had clear opportunities to mention his plans, and has chosen to mislead you.

I will also say that as he says, first loves are not adult relationships, but those teenage feelings were often very intense. Reconnecting can bring all of those feelings back. He may just be curious, nostalgic or so on, but it's the secrecy that is disturbing.

I'd confront him before he goes. Even if it's just to say 'Send my regards to Susan on Thursday' as he heads out the door.

'Some answers to things people have asked: I'm prepared to be this chill about it because it's after 11 years of otherwise solid. He is my best friend, the one who looked after me during a HG pregnancy, helped me get my dad to hospital in time to save his life, helped me write the eulogy for my grandad, supported my career change when I lost my job 3 weeks pp, and just been there for all the tiny moments that make up life and I have to weigh that in this too. '

Translation - he sees you as his friend not as a lover anymore .

i don't even think its thinking you'll fly off the handle its just the tiny percent chance you'd be against it. doesn't want to potentially rock the boat at home but also wants to go to dinner.

please don't let all the people jumping up to talk about how they slept with the 14 y/o cinema date at 50 😭shake your resolve

If you trust him and that is your gut instinct. just have a chat. you seem very pretty level headed, he just needs reminding the silly lies are stupid and detrimental to an open trusting relationship. AND that you'll always find out in the end so no point

This is how to deal with situations like this.
This post should be pinned.

This thread has been quite calm for Mumsnet....

Good luck with it all op....💪

I might be biased and automatically think the worst because of my own ex, but, the lying - by omission and to your face - would ring alarm bells. Especially as you’ve said you’ve spoken openly about the friend/ex previously.

it does sound more one sided on his part going on how you’ve described the texts - she sounds perfectly happy in her marriage and thinking this is a nice dinner to catch up as friends.

unfortunately I think he sounds more suspect. I think he’s probably got a little day dream fantasy in his head, you know, getting older, wanting to relive his youth a little maybe. Generalisation I know, but a lot of men have reached their 40s plus and had this sort of crisis that they’re getting older, is life how they wanted, wanting some excitement etc. best case is he’s got a little crush and enjoying the thrill of keeping a secret to meet up and it’s nothing more, nothing hoping or planned to happen other than an innocent dinner but with the added little excitement of only they know.

but I’d be seriously questioning if he’s actually hoping for more. I understand your comment about fancying a colleague etc and having that little boost but knowing that is all it is, hopefully that’s all this is for your husband.

I dislike that it’s a secret, a dinner which sounds like a date, and the potential that things coukd escalate or that he’d like them to.

I don’t know if I would ask him outright before he leaves (again, tainted by my own experience- if it is for sordid reasons, he will outright lie and turn it on you) or if I’d ask once he came home, how was mrs ex? And watch for clues on his face for how to take his answer

I think it's really important that you speak to him before he goes. Unless you feel you can be "chill" if he comes back and confesses he shagged her.

I am a family solicitor. I've dealt with literally hundreds if not thousands of divorces. Whilst every one is different, a not insignificant portion of them involve one party who is completely poleaxed by the end of the marriage. "We were completely solid" "I had no idea" "He's the last person anyone would expect this of" "We were so happy, I don't understand" and so on.

Don't be a passive on-looker. Stop letting him have his clandestine adventure. Remind him he's married and take the excitement out of this.

OP he has undermined your trust in him and your relationship and has clearly lied about where he is going to be. I also think you can’t leave it until after he has met up with her. You must broach it with him and perhaps clearly say to him
I think you have something you have to tell me.l don’t you. Your husband is doing a shitty thing really OP and your feeling are totally understandable

I went on his laptop to show our son details of a trip we have planned and found that they have discussed meeting up for a while So you deliberately opened his emails, something was telling you to look further, more than being nosy. Instincts are there for a reason.

I would ... say something to the effect of:
”I know you are meeting [ex] for dinner next week. Why have you lied to me about that? That's a red line for me." And then stop talking, and wait to see what he fills that silence with.

Unfortunately, seeing as his actions so far already demonstrate him to be a liar, I would imagine that his response will be to attempt to focus the conversation on how YOU have supposedly betrayed HIS trust by reading his messages, rather than how he has actually betrayed yours by arranging a dinner date with his ex and then lying to you about it. He will DARVO you (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender).

I'm sorry OP but I agree with others that you are being extremely naive here. You seem to be trying to get yourself to believe that he wouldn't cheat on you because of all the positives you list, but I'll bet before you found this out you'd have said similarly that he would never lie to you. Except he has, more than once.

You need to have a conversation about this before he goes, and take the wind out of his sails. It's sickening that he's presumably thinking about her while sat there with you. Find your anger. And consider what you want out of the conversation. I'd want him to cease all contact with her (given that he can't be trusted with it) and for him to cancel this particular work trip. He's lost your trust due to his behaviour and needs to earn it back.

I'd be fine with the meet up, annoyed at the lying/secrecy.

I'd ask him before he goes, simply why didn't he tell you ? Ask the question and say nothing more let him talk. Don't be defensive you have done nothing wrong,if he tries to deflect blame calmly turn it back to the point at hand. Why the secrecy?

I'd be interested in his response, if he tries to blame you for snooping or play it down as not a big deal and I'd be unimpressed. An ideal response is a heartfelt apology and an admission he felt uncomfortable telling you but he knows it was wrong not to.

I can't work out if you are super clued up or naive!

I would chat to him before he goes though. You seem very clued up, so keep it simple.

I don’t think he felt comfortable lying as on the third occasion he mentioned he might meet a friend. It is evasive I agree (maybe it’s an itch he needs to scratch without hurting you)Also, should you really have been snooping in his emails - this suggests you don’t trust him? This might be an innocent meet up and he might mention before he goes? You’re assuming the worst but he’s still got time to come clean.

Agree with PP that you need to take the thrill and secrecy out of this dinner date by letting him know that you know beforehand.

I would probably be blunt while sitting down over dinner one night. ‘I believe you are meeting x next week and not y as you told me. Can you tell me why you lied?’

If he tries to divert by asking how you know ‘I’ll tell you later. For now answer my question’.

From the messages, do you think her husband knows they plan to meet? I hope she takes him with her.

Good luck OP. 💐

@mairimhor, something has changed and your H is willing to risk your trust. He is blocking transparency to protect this rendezvous with his former GF and the
lead-up to it. He appears to be viewing her in a different way and is acting on that, employing deception and subterfuge to keep you in the dark.

He meticulously planned this date for weeks, complimented her photo with an added kiss, and has lied directly and by omission on three occasions. His substituting a male’s name for hers when voicing his plans speaks volumes about his secret agenda.

He has allowed his boundaries to weaken and is not behaving like a transparent, monogamous partner. He is testing the waters and seeking gratification from this woman at your expense. It’s possible that he has been focusing his thoughts on her and reliving the feelings engendered by their teenage romantic adventure. He will be hoping for frisson and a reconnection. His lying indicates that this is not a mere friendly catch-up on his part.

@mairimhor, whatever has triggered this duplicitous, self-serving behavior, he has already chosen to abuse your trust. I encourage you to address his dishonesty before the trip. Zap his buzz and stop it in its tracks. I certainly would not sit by in silent torment while he goes on his date in fluttery anticipation of an illicit reignited connection, be it emotional or physical.

I don't know, but she hasn't indicated she sees anything in it. I wouldn't spit on my ex from the same time if he was on fire, so I can't really imagine what I'd do in a similar situation, but I think I'd have checked in with him before arranging any meet up if it was really innocent 🤷🏻‍♀️

Lies by omission. Totally dangerous territory. Deliberately misleading you about plans. Keeping secrets. He knows you’re trusting. This has got bad news written all over it. All this planning? ‘Innocent’ messages can conceal a lot going on underneath.
Id ask him again - what are your plans for that evening?
If he doesn’t tell you directly he’s meeting up with her you’ve got serious problems.
Ask him sooner rather than later.
And if he lies, say ‘oh so we’ve got to the point in our marriage where we’re lying to each other now?’
I am wondering- are you a bit scared of his reaction if you bring it up?

I agree with this, but I'd invite him to talk about his plans again immediately before discussing it. If he lies (either by hiding his plans, or by pretending that he's only just made the arrangements) you can confront him directly and put him on the spot with the truth.

Definitely don't be derailed if he asks how you know, keep him on the issue at hand.
Also remember that, as you've never given him any reason to hide that he's meeting this woman, thinking you'd be worried/wouldn't be happy about it isn't a valid excuse (but it is an excuse often used by men who've been caught out and want to flip the blame onto their partner).

I think your naive and trusting. Your husband is lying to you just because can, which is horrible to do to someone they "claim" they love - would you do this to him? If no why are you so accepting he can cheat/date lie about his first love to you. Stop worrying about she might not fancy him etc he clearly has a "fancy" for her. Please for the sake of saving your marriage from future heartache confront him now. Is your self esteem-so low that you find it acceptable your husband WANTS to go on dinner dates with other woman when your not around.

Exactly this. It doesn't do you any favours to be so laid back, it only allows people to take advantage

Your husband is a liar and is acting like a weird creep. Don’t be reassured you’re not seeing anything inappropriate from her. She likes him enough to chat with him and meet up with him. Like you I wouldn’t spit on my exes let alone meet up with them. So she has positive feelings towards him,

Stop being passive. He’s so comfortable lying to you that you didn’t notice anything was wrong. He’s well practiced at it. I would deal with this by waving him off then telling him not to bother coming back,

How utterly pathetic of him.

I think you should talk to him about it before he goes. It doesn't need to be framed as a 'confrontation' - just an honest conversation. You saw something and you need to ask him why he hasn't told you it about it. Is everything okay in the relationship? Why didn't he tell you? If the shoe was on the other foot would he be happy for you to meet up with a childhood sweetheart behind his back? Etc etc. One thing I have observed on Mumsnet is that the 12 year mark in a relationship seems to be a rough point for a lot of people. So many of the relationship threads say they have been together for 11/12 years and then something happens... the astrology buff in me would say it has something to do with the Jupiter cycle but whatever the reason it's a time period to watch your relationship closely, along with the 7 year mark (7 year itch) which also seems to be a tricky period.