A torn heart....serious long term but ended affair and long term marriage.

[Muddled54]

Name change for this one for obvious reasons...

I left my loving, soulmate affair partner of nearly a year (friends and colleagues for many years before this) to work on what I realised in comparison was a transactionally functioning but emotionally shallow marriage after confessing the affair to my suspecting spouse. If I’m honest I think I subconsciously hoped my husband would then instigate a divorce but instead, being understandably traumatised, he expressed that he’d rather committing suicide, actually waved paracetamol packets in front of me, than live without me. So I decided after 35 years together in an OK but not closely connected marriage, I owed it to him and our three grown up children to stay in the family unit and see why we weren’t connecting as I had managed for the first time in my life with my affair partner.

I knew I’d still have connection with my ex affair partner through work and think subconsciously I knew this meant I'd never 100% had to let him go, although would have drastically reduced contact at my spouse's understandable insistance. My spouse, having been so hurt I sense wanted to see that I was prepared to cause my affair partner and friend pain to show allegiance to him and I am ashamed to say that in my shock at the time I ghosted and gave my affair partner little/no proper closure and followed my husband's demands - he'd read up all about no contact in healing affair situations and I feel wanted me to apply everything that he believed would inflict pain on my affair partner as justly deserved punitive measures. I now feel I handled this tricky situation in an inhumane, inauthentic way as as a child from a broken marriage myself I now see my elderly father so much happier with his second marriage than he ever was with my mum who is also a good person but just they didn't connect I now realise.

My ex affair partner now has told me that this uncomfortable, artificial minimalist contact at work and also my decision of recommitting to my marriage is causing him so much stress and hurt that he wants to resign to allow himself and my marriage distance to heal if that truly is my choice. Now I am finally facing losing the one person on this planet who seemed to ‘get me’ and I feel full of regret and confusion. I did try and speak to my husband at the very first instance the affair started becoming physical and when I knew I had fallen deeply in love with my affair partner - I told my spouse that I had stopped loving him in a way that married people should but still had familial love for him, but his initial reaction was so extreme, again talk of suicide, that the affair continued in secret. Honestly as friends and lovers we were like magnets drawn together- it is not something I understand myself nor had experienced before this. there was nothing fancy about what we did - just walking in each other's company seemed like heaven and i felt for the first time on my life the joy of not feeling alone on some level on this planet. I am bereft but don’t know if I have the strength to handle a suicidal spouse, and the domestic upheaval and potential family fallout all at the same time if I end the marriage…and now having so badly hurt my loving, tender affair partner, he probably could never trust me any more for not seeing through ending the marriage when I should have done, right at the start of realising I’d fallen in love with him.

So bereft, so depressed, so stuck…I feel I’m giving up love with my soulmate out of duty for my loving, hurt husband and sense of duty to work on the marriage as he has asked. Has anyone else experienced this and did the marriage survive and repair once total no contact occurred with a truly loved affair partner? And as an alternative possible ending, if the marriage ends as healing proves impossible and you try at a later stage to reconnect with an ex affair partner you’d rejected and badly hurt, could that relationship recover or does that betrayal (yes, I feel I’ve betrayed my living affair partner in trying to recommit to my husband in all ways (psychologically and sexually!) leave too deep a scar? My husband knows how deeply I felt for the affair partner but he feels family and marriage vows trump all and if he's willing to try to forgive and understand why we didn't connect enough to prevent me finding a beautiful connection through an affair, I owe it to him after such a long marriage to try and work on it too.

Agree. The propaganda from the RIC (Reconciliation Industrial Complex) has a wide reach.
Very few relationships, if any, can genuinely recover from an affair. It will never be the same. Trust takes a long time to build but only a moment to destroy forever.

This

Your ex husband sounds emotionally abusive and neglectful. I believe that if there is abuse and neglect, the marriage vows are null and void because they have already been broken by the abusive person. The ethical way is to break up first instead of monkey branching to somebody else, but in your case I don't think you should continue to beat yourself up for it. He coldly told you not to bother him about your health ever again? What a bastard. I can't feel much sympathy for somebody like that. You do seem genuinely remorseful, which is to your credit, so maybe you need to forgive yourself now.

@suburberphobe of course things change over 35 years and nobody is the same as they were in their twenties years later, neither is the life they’re leading, but if the OP wants to try to save her marriage there has to be a better reason than feeling like she owes it to her husband, fear of upsetting her adult children and fear of being alone if it doesn’t work out with her affair partner. If she can’t remember any good times or why she liked him in the first place, or over the years, if she can’t find any shred of the person she loved enough to marry, can’t find any reasons except obligation and fear then it’s time to leave. A marriage with a good history might be worth trying to save if you want it. But you have to want it.
In affairs people check out of their primary relationship and are often mentally all in with their affair partner, letting the marriage go even more stale and dull and exacerbating any initial issues. The reasons for the stale marriage won’t all be her husband’s fault, she hasn’t nurtured it or him either whilst mooning about her affair partner.
Over time people’s beliefs and attitudes change with experience, yes, but often closeness gets get lost in childcare or careers or busy lives or caring for elderly relatives and it’s more that life that’s changed, not them fundamentally. People think all is well usually in their marriage so tell themselves that in the future when they’re less busy and have time for each other it will all still be there. Relationships that get taken for granted and neglected go stale. It’s not always that the love has gone, but the closeness and intimacy and checking in with each other has. Suddenly somebody shows an interest and you remember what being in love and noticed felt like and you’re in big trouble. It doesn’t always mean the marriage is necessarily dead though.
You either don’t want to split up so you find your husband’s good qualities that you admired in the first place, decide if you can still admire and respect him and nurture that or you find the courage to call it and get out.
Remembering the good times helps, no matter how long ago. If you can’t think of any good times or don’t want to foster them any more then it’s time to go.

All the relate counselling and self help books in the world won’t help unless both parties are all in and actually want to improve their relationship.
OP doesn’t sound like she’s in this whole heartedly at all and talks about what she feels she owes her husband rather than wanting to be with him and stay together because she loves him. If the love is dead and she can’t remember even one of his good points then the kindest thing to do is leave.

@Thewookiemustgo bloody well said wookie! 👌👌👌

Out of all the threads I’ve read on affairs on MN, this one makes the most sense.
I’ve never been about to understand how when affair gets exposed that counselling would help the person having the affair do a 360 and focus 100% back on the marriage. It drags on the pain for all involved. I really also didn’t know about what a market there for affair recovery so thanks for that: though I’ve listened to a few of Esther Perez’s podcasts and did think it was a lot of rambling and not relatable!

Affair recovery as the only/ best way forward after infidelity and reconciliation at all costs, promising a better marriage than ever, is dangerous advice.
There are a couple of infidelity websites I found that contain good information and advice after infidelity and don’t dress it up or pull punches either. They don’t advocate staying with a cheating partner or leaving, they are a big help in understanding the psychology of cheating, how betrayal impacts you and how to cope and get through it either with or without your partner, they focus on healing from betrayal rather than pushing people together. Esther Perel is an affair apologist in my eyes and to me does more harm than good. Some people find her useful but I didn’t.
I found a woman called Michelle Mays good for understanding the complexities of how partner betrayal impacts you, how to navigate getting yourself through it and come out the other side stronger, with or without your partner. She focuses on healing you, not your relationship.
The reconciliation industry can absolutely peddle a lot of nonsense and sell false hope, however there are websites and people out there who get lumped in with the definition of the industry and scoffed at, who can be a lifeline for those traumatised after betrayal and are not at all judgmental whether you stay or leave or are the betrayer or the betrayed.

@AnonAnonmystery absolutely agree, it puts the cart before the horse. The cheating partner has to have already done the 360 themselves and genuinely want the marriage before any kind of counselling will benefit anybody.
The old joke “How many shrinks does it take to change a lightbulb? One, but the lightbulb has to really want to change…” springs to mind here.
Realisation of what you really want has to come first, counselling about how to achieve what you really want should come afterwards.
It’s like any kind of counselling or therapy or help groups, for any issue: if you’re there because you’re told to be or made to be or think you ought to be, it’s a total waste of time.
Counselling is like physiotherapy in that the sessions themselves work on identifying the problems and giving you the tools to help yourself overcome them. It’s hard work and without self motivation usually fails. In between sessions you have to do the work yourself and the exercises given. That’s when the wheels come off if you don’t really want to be there in the first place.
People think that talking about their problems for an hour a week solves them. It doesn’t if you don’t act on it, and it especially doesn’t if you don’t really even want to be there anyway, you just get resentful.
Jack Nicholson’s character in the film “As Good As It Gets” says to his therapist “I came here for help! I’m drowning here and you’re just describing the water!” Good therapy doesn’t just empathise with your problems , it gives you what you need to hear whether you like it or not, it gives you the tools you need to help yourself, throws you the life ring. But you have to grab it yourself and start swimming.
Just talking about the situation and hand wringing for hours on end achieves nothing, except making the therapist richer, as does expecting others to make the changes you need to make for you. If you’re there because somebody sent you or you think the therapist can wave a wand for you you’re going to be resentful and disappointed.

@Thewookiemustgo thanks for all your insights. Infidelity is something that frightens the life out of me. It sounds like you’ve been through this all and come out the other side too. I’ve said this before on other posts I’ve tried to future proof various aspects of my life. For now, myself and dp still very loved up after 5 years but I always seem to be on my guard a bit. Don’t think it’s a him thing but just that cheating seems to be so rife!

@AnonAnonmystery I think it’s more common than I thought it was but if you hang around here long enough you’ll think nobody can keep their knickers on, frankly. Remember that this is a relationships page and that nobody ever posts (except lazy journalists looking for an article) anything about how tickety-boo everything is and can anybody else share their amazing relationship stories? Etc, people usually post on here because something bad is / has / might happen so the content here makes it look like cheating is so common it’s like stepping on and off the number 27 bus. This site is hugely skewed to the negative aspects of relationships.
I am out of the other side of the wrecking ball of infidelity, yes. We only made it because we both wanted it. It doesn’t suit everybody and some people stay in marriages for the wrong reasons and plenty of people shouldn’t stay together at all.
We’re fortunately financially well off, our kids are flying the nest now so there’s no ‘need’ to stay together unless it was wanted and good, life’s too short to be miserable and I’m the wrong side of sixty now so don’t want to waste a second.
If I’ve learned anything in life it’s that you can’t actually future proof anything really, especially where other people are concerned. You can’t and shouldn’t control anybody else’s behaviour, that’s their back yard to deal with. Not all happy marriages escape infidelity and not all bad marriages experience it as a given either.
Cheating depends on an individual person’s decision to cheat, and you cannot always predict who will or won’t, ever. If somebody wants to do it they will, you’ll rarely if ever stop them. They’re not cheating because of anything you did or didn’t do, they’re cheating because they are too cowardly and selfish when tempted to be honest, communicate their issues and admit their own flaws and weaknesses. They justify it internally with entitlement arguments and personality/ history re-writes.
Give your relationship attention, check in and keep the ‘coupleness’ and intimacy alive. Expect the same consideration and respect in return.
Dont live life on your guard, honestly don’t. Sometimes when things are great we can start worrying about losing the life and relationship we treasure and it becomes difficult to stay in the moment and enjoy it.
Stay honest, communicate often, communicate kindly but honestly and trust your gut. Enjoy the great relationship you have, AnonAnon, and dont waste good times worrying unless you’re given a reason to. Relationships go through peaks and troughs over the years, life brings changes and challenges and sometimes the relationship itself gets neglected, no matter how loved up anybody is. Remember you’re adults sharing and creating a life together, not teenagers trying to live in an endless Mills and Boon novel. It won’t always be hearts and flowers but if it’s real you’ll get through the tough times together.
Paying attention to each other, supporting each other and showing love through actions as well as words is all you can do. Now stop worrying and enjoy your lovely partner!

@Thewookiemustgo thank you for your wise and kind words, I will honestly reread that as it’s good to get that kind of advice. Glad you are out thr other side and happy xx

Another lovely sensible post.
Should be pinned.

@Thewookiemustgo <standing ovation>
🌟🌟🌟

Bloody hell thanks for the nice comments, either I must have had my Weetabix today or I should polish off half a box of forgotten Christmas After Eights more often. 😂

It seems really simple to me.
You’re not happy in your marriage, so leave it. You are not responsible for your DH.

Get your own place to live and learn to enjoy being single.

Date OM if you’re both still feeling the same.

If not - enjoy being single and enjoy dating.

IMO the best is chumplady.com. She delivers common sense advice with wit and style. The comments there are quite insightful and supportive.

ITA about Perel. Chumplady has some good takedowns of her.

It's not fair to threaten suicide.

Leave him and put yourself first.

Interesting comments about false reconcilliation here.

For some reason this post reminds me of the Black Mirror episode "The Entire History of You" whereby your eyes record every single day of your life and can be played back.

A bit like VR in football, replay it back and learn the truth, many opposed this for years , but how cool would it be in the future to actually protect the victims of gaslighting and cruelty.
What you are doing op is cruel, I can't imagine what pain your h is enduring, yes you are pining but his pain must be excruciating, to know whichever scenario pans out that you cannot win and are a consolation, a second placed partner, a total mind fuck with a life changing view of human nature, poor bloke, sounds like he was in it for the long haul.

I watched a programe recently and someone said within a relationship there is always a flower and always a gardener, I think this analogy is pretty spot on and throughout my life have found that cheaters always seem to have been the recievers within the relationship (but denying it) with many taking that for granted and many ending up feeling they were not recieving enough although they very rarely gave.
Too many fairytales when they were younger I suppose, although many cheaters I've known up until the point they didn't get everything they wanted seem to be quite hopeful, entertaining, young at heart creatures, the betrayed discarded ones seems to be of a more mature vain that held deeper ideals.
So many of these mismatched couples seem to be the norm but that's the gardner and flower effect.

But wow when the cheaters themselves come across being refused or discarded, it's like a sunarmi of undeserving emotions.

Anyway this doesn't help your multi choices op.

I hope your h recovers from this abusive dynamic, whichever way it pans out.

@Thewookiemustgo you always talk a lot of sense about affairs- and you are right- it's very different situation when it happens in what you both think is a good and close relationship with along history than one where it seems a bit of a relationship of convenience. Life isn't as black and white as many think

lol. She's been putting herself first the whole time by having an affair. It shouldn't be difficult for her to continue......

Thanks for all these highly varied thoughts on my behaviour. We've had a few counselling sessions now - My husband has heard me say directly to him that I felt a deep connection with my affair partner that felt very sincere. I've told him how sorry I am not to have been strong enough to tell him immediately, but his suicide threat made it virtually impossible for me to be honest with him. I've also heard him say that he regrets talking about suicide and now sees that this was simply him trying to find a way to control me and he realises he would never have done it. He feels incredibly guilty and disappointed in himself for doing this to another person, let alone the person you claim to love and says he knew deep down that he couldn't control my having fallen out of love and he thinks this was a last ditch attempt to make me see sense. But he can now see that making your vulnerability the other person's responsibility can't stop them loving another person, just makes them stay in a marriage out of fear and regret of causing so much hurt to their spouse.

The totally unexpected happened in that he has began also to admit he can see how we had stopped connecting and that he can see himself that we are very different people now than all those years ago and that deep down he'd always felt whilst we were both 'good' to each other there was part of me he never felt he could 'reach' and if I feel this other person did reach that part of me then he didn't want to make me stay out of duty or compassion for his hurt. He also has said that this has made him wonder himself what a relationship with another person might be like and he feels with time he can see that life could actually be OK but in any case, better than clinging on to a marriage that might never truly heal after my affair. He actually said to the counsellor that he was highly sceptical about what 'marriage reconciliation after infidelity' counselling could actually really achieve as he just can't see how anyone normal could ever forget discovering their spouse has truly fallen in love with another person and he feels forcing me to remain true to our marriage vows would be signing us both up to the last 2 or 3 likely decades of our lives to a horrible compromise. He felt no amount of therapy could result in the marriage being better than before and that he was sure would be full of triggers for us both, and for what?
Because neither of us was brave enough to see the affair for what I truly believe it was - a moment when I found someone unexpectedly who was more in tune with the person I am now, not how I was over 35 years ago, when my husband and I first met and had a family so young.

We both know that with time we will want to spend time with each other and enjoy our children (and hopefully grandchildren!) together and I have told him whatever the outcome for my life, single or in a relationship, I would want for us to be able to come together at many family times as a true reflection of the years of our marriage that felt like they worked...rather than give the decline in our marriage the greater influence on our future lives. So suddenly, unexpectedly life is shockingly calmer, sad, full of reflection and much upheaval to sort out - we're both nervous about leaving a home we've brought up our family in and starting again but also suddenly there is a sense of relief for us both I think. I feel that tackling this honestly and deciding not to drag out a painful and uncertain reconciliation attempt for years has given us the best chance at a future where we can still enjoy each other as two human beings with a klong history and wonderful adult children. I think marriage reconciliation after infidelity would actually have damaged our chance at a healthier future and I'm not surprised, having read up much on this now, that so few marriages attempting to reconcile after infidelity apparently actually make it past the 2-5 year mark and many regret those lost years. I have told my affair partner what is happening but that I need time and head space to close down the marriage as calmly as I can - which means not seeing him properly until such a time as we've dealt with various matters. He says he'll wait and understands and that he doesn't want my husband to hurt any more than he already must do.

What I would say is that it was useful to have these sessions with a counsellor to enable us to speak truths that were bound to hurt in a calmer environment. But I would also say don't let yourself be pressurised into thinking you should commit to years of marriage reconciliation work if you just know deep down you've had the best years of your marriage and anything after an affair is going to be only a compromise. I'm not sure anyone really could ever get the trust back in a choice to continue a marriage but my experience is that there's more positivity, hope and honesty in trying build a new platonic friendship....not magically start a 'new marriage' as is sometime says happens after an affair. I can't honestly see how that can really be possible...

Well done OP. Slowly and gradually does it.

and thanks for the update.

Standing ovation for you and your dh op.
Sounds like you've both faced some hard truths with the most courage and good will.
So glad the years you've had and built a family together will be knitted into your future choices.
Wishing you both all the best with your next chapters.

I’m glad you have a calm and reasoned outcome to what happened and that you both got the clarity to see that reconciliation in your case would clearly be a painful waste of time.
However your update and your counsellor seems to have concentrated on your husband’s behaviour and issues in response to your affair and ignored your issues and controlling behaviour with regards to deception and dishonesty.
I cannot condone your husband’s attempt to control you with suicide threats, absolutely not. However, whilst totally unacceptable, when seen in context this was the desperate response of a traumatised man following a major betrayal.
He acknowledges that his threats were an attempt to control your behaviour. However he was not the only one exhibiting control.
In order to conduct an affair, the unfaithful spouse has to control the situation at home to avoid detection. The faithful spouse is controlled by being deliberately prevented from seeing the truth about their life by being lied to, deceived and gaslit by the unfaithful spouse. It is also controlling behaviour which seems to have been overlooked or excused away by yourself and your counsellor.
Your husband has done some hard and painful work and all credit to him for taking responsibility for his controlling behaviour and recognising the effects it had on you.
Your update tells of his regret, remorse and painful introspection about his behaviour, which whilst inexcusable, occurred as a result of your behaviour towards him.
“He feels incredibly guilty and disappointed in himself for doing this to another person, let alone the person you claim to love”. This is because he has recognised his part in all this and sees that it was wrong, despite it being the result of trauma caused by your betrayal. His subsequent apology and remorse are evident. I have yet to read about any feelings of guilt and remorse from you that were similarly explored in the counselling session.
I have re-read your posts and whilst I have found one saying that you are sorry that you fell in love with somebody else and did not love him any more, all of which of course cannot be helped, I cannot find anything where you accept responsibility and express remorse for your choice to then betray him in the light of that and have an affair.
You have been motivated to read about the chances of marriage after infidelity. When your husband was traumatised and threatening suicide were you motivated to spend an equal amount of time trying to understand why he would do this by reading about the effects your infidelity will have had on him?
Have you done any introspection other than ‘It’s because I fell in love with somebody else” as to what in your character caused you to give yourself permission to betray somebody (whom you knew loved you) and excuse it with “I fell in love.”?
Did your counsellor explore your behaviour towards him or just his behaviour towards you?
I just can’t see the same amount of remorse from you for your treatment of him or that you feel any need to look inwards and acknowledge your part in what was, although unacceptable and in need of addressing, his trauma response.
I’m not bashing you OP, I just know through experience that those who choose betrayal and deception, both abusive and controlling behaviours, (as are suicide threats) when faced with difficult choices, need to own this or there will be no change. It can’t be excused away with ‘I fell in love’. They need to explore why and how they gave themselves permission to lie to their spouse and how they excused and justified their behaviour. Your husband wasn’t the only one exerting control through abuse.
Those who resort to abusive behaviours when faced with a relational dilemma need to look within. Your counsellor seems to have concentrated on his abusive behaviour and not yours.
It is obvious that your marriage is over and that you don’t want it or your husband, it is good that you reached a calm and reasoned conclusion. The statistics on marriage failure after infindelity 2-5 years down the line vary a lot depending on what you read. The American Psychological Association did an extensive study which put it at 53%. Nobody should feel pressured into staying in a relationship they no longer want, so it is good that this has been amicably recognised.
The whole ‘build a new marriage’ thing never resonated with me, either, after infidelity people generally don’t want any more drama and ‘excitement’ and trying to make a ‘new’ marriage, they either want out or they want things to calm down and build on the marriage they already have, to me the new part needed is a new understanding of each other in the light of what has happened.
I sincerely wish you and your husband the best, I just hope you find the courage to pull your focus away from what he did to you and look within like he evidently has, to avoid repetition in the future.

@Thewookiemustgo Thanks for your honest reply. It's so interesting when you realise that you haven't communicated properly and that has lead possibly to misunderstandings as I seem to have in my posts here. I can see why you express frustration at my apparent lack of remorse or accountability. I can assure you that this isn't how it feels from my point of view and actually surprisingly to me, increasingly this isn't something my husband clearly feels I haven't tried (and continue to) convey to him. I'm a naturally self-contained person and he's more obviously extrovert. I think because I'm constantly evaluating myself with my own inner critic and because I never thought I'd find myself in this situation, especially at my age and after a long marriage, I maybe assumed the pain I have caused myself as well as him in knowing I didn't handle things in a better way was taken as read. In fact ONE OF THE BIGGEST BARRIERS I NOW HAVE TO FACE IS TO ACCOUNT TO MYSELF, HAVING HELD MYSELF TOTALLY ACCOUNTABLE TO MY BETRAYED SPOUSE FOR MY INFIDELITY AND FOR THE DECISION THAT IN THE END WE BOTH TOOK TO END THE MARRIAGE, prompted by my affair showing me a depth of connection I didn't believe was available to me and which I truly believe I would never have even realised had I not met my affair partner). And believe you me I was not let off the hook by the counsellor for not being honest with my husband by not telling him that I had fallen in love with another person sooner and continued to get to know my affair partner.

I have questioned my integrity and am reflecting on this all the time even though I know it achieves nothing for my husband and is basically beating myself up. Every time I see the word 'cheater' I cringe and whilst on an intellectual level I strongly refuse to subscribe to the black and white mentality that seems to surround this 'taboo' subject which does nothing it seems to me to help any of us, betrayer, betrayed or affair partner to find a sensible path out of a tricky but so human predicament. Prior to this I had an image of myself as a quiet, peace-loving person who rarely rocks the boat. It feels to me like I have gone through most of my life with the idea planted deep somewhere within that true happiness in life is something that belongs to others. I don't think I was even aware of this but I suspect my subconscious knew some deep rooted need to connect hadn't fully been met so far in my lifetime and then suddenly there it was in front of me, unexpectedly - having developed over a long time with a friend and colleague with whom I'd had for so many years a respectful, incredibly positive rapport with - if I had to find a word it was that I began to feel 'joy' just in being, just on being me, just in the simple presence of a chat over a cup of tea, sharing of a beautiful photo of nature or a sunset. I cannot and do not know why this person triggered this in me, and in some ways I still wish I'd never met them so that it hadn't made me question the marriage. But I did. I know some people might find this 'flowery' and 'self indulgent' but it was just the power of a connection so positive that it showed me something new. It's a tribute to my affair partner's character that he has totally done as I have asked and is giving me time to be able to give myself totally now to closing down the marriage now, without pressure.

I realise in being honest with my spouse in ending our marriage and in trying my hardest to explain what happened to me emotionally that this then allowed me to be honest with my affair partner in asking him to wait a little while, without leaving him feeling inexplicably, painfully rejected and in the dark (whilst all the time I grieved his loss but didn't feel it was fair to tell him as I thought I should just bury my feelings and stay loyal to my long marriage) has ended up being the only way we can all move on with a hope of healing fully. I am well aware that if my affair partner will still work on building a relationship with me once my marriage is more formally ended, that we will be facing a very different dynamic to that within an affair but at our age there are no pressures of decisions like deciding to have a family etc. We will have time to just take things one day at a time just as I will to establish a new dynamic with my ex-husband in our interactions with our adult children. We're planning on speaking to them over the next week - one of the useful things the counsellor helped us with when we both expressed fear to telling them what we were doing and the truth of why was to ask us "What example would you wish to set your children? A life yes of duty and compromise within our human relationships or showing them that the changes life throws up allow us all to learn much of ourselves, to grow and in our resilience to embrace change but not malign a meaningful past we can show them the behaviour of two emotionally intelligent and actually 'loving' parents who still respect each other despite mistakes and despite growing apart."

I think that's right. I do feel there's now an air of honesty now with my not yet 'ex-husband' than has been the case in our marriage for decades with me just not feeling deep down fulfilled somehow - even though this transparency about my needs and feelings has come about ironically through an affair. I am so hoping he now finds the same...I genuinely care that he is Ok and that he finds happiness. And i know this way - totally transparency I don't have to disappear from his life which is what he says he currently doesn't want to happen even if we divorce. I confident we'll settle into something mutually supportive through divorcing that we might never have found through 'settling'.