Constant arguments with DH about our teens, 2 in particular

[Thisisntme1]

This is a long one sorry, please bear with me as I’d love some advice and trying to give as much context as possible.
I’ve also put in paragraphs but I’m on the app so hope they show.

DH seems to always have an issue with two of our kids in particular.
To set some back story, we have 3 boys (20, 16, 13) and admittedly the 16yo is the easiest kid/teenager by far. He’s a very easy going, does what he’s told, people pleaser, doesn’t get into trouble sort of kid. The other two are a bit more work attitude wise but still fantastic kids that don’t get into any trouble.
They are both suspected ADHD/autism but the oldest has never been tested and the youngest is on a waiting list.

DH very obvious struggles with those two in particular and they notice it, the youngest often says he feels like his dad hates him.
If I mention it though DH blows up and accuses me of always defending and protecting them.
DH is never physically violent and I often agree (mostly) with the rules he wants to implement etc but it’s the way he goes about it that I hate.

There’s a lot of issues but I’ll start with the oldest.
He works full time, has a GF who is currently long distance for university, sees his mates occasionally and plays a sport during its season.
He’s a bit of an anxious kid and very introverted. He’s not a big partier or drinker, is not into clubbing, doesn’t do drugs, smoke or vape or anything.

We haven’t been charging him board as he has to live away from home for a week every six weeks for his trade and he pays for all of that himself but as that’s coming to an end we’ll start charging.
He pays all his own bills (phone, car etc), buys his own snacks etc. he doesn’t do many chores off his own back but will if you ask.
He eats dinner with us most nights and is not very chatty but otherwise spends a lot of time after work in his room. Playing Xbox with his mates or talking to his girlfriend. He wouldn’t come sit and watch tv with us for example.

DH is always mad at him for not talking much or doing nothing around the house, thinks he’s lazy, disgusting and disrespectful because he’s in his room a lot and thinks he only comes out to talk to us if he wants a lift somewhere (to train station for example)
I just think he’s living his life, doing his own thing in his down time and know that he’s a quiet kid. I’m happy to give him lifts if I’m not busy.
They never ask DH if they can help it as they know he’ll say no, or not be happy about it, but DH gets annoyed at me if I do it.

DH and I battle on this all the time. I understand he has his own opinion but the way he speaks about our DS is awful, like he’s a drug addict getting into trouble with the police.
If DS were to ever start doing chores off his own back or hanging it out with us all the time, DH would be suspicious of that too and say he’s only doing it because he wants something. It’s like he can never be pleased.
In these arguments I ask exactly what he would like DS to do that would make him happy but he doesn’t answer.
DH is very emotionally immature and starts being very sarcastic in arguments and you really don’t get anywhere.

I can see things with our youngest DS are going to be similar as he gets older. They already aren’t great and DH and him fight all the time.
Admittedly I have/do undermine DH sometimes. I don’t mean to, as I said I often agree with him taking technology off DS for bad behaviour as an example.
But DH doesn’t stay calm and consistent, he escalates as well which escalates DS and then suddenly technology is banned for 6 months or something unrealistic and DH is stomping around like a raging bull.
I’m aware what I do wrong and I’m trying to change it.

DH thinks the kids listen to me and respect me but not him, so I’ve tried pointing out to him the way I parent and how it’s different to DH so maybe if he wants what I have he could try doing things that way too, but he never does.
His favourite saying is “I’m just trying to hold our kids accountable"
But I also hold them accountable for their actions, just in a different way. I am a bit more permissive I suppose but I’ve stopped sweating the small stuff and I’m happier for it.

DH’s view is that he can’t say anything negative about 2 of the kids in particular as I jump to their defence and I guess I do but DH doesn’t just say “oh gees DS1 is giving my the shits today because of….”
He’ll say “DS is a disgusting, rude disrespectful kid and he can move out/fuck off if he doesn’t want to talk to me” (that’s not an exact example but very close to how he talks)

It’s really affecting our marriage and I don’t know how to move forward from here as we have the same argument literally every week.

I feel really sad for your 13 year old. Saying his dad hates him 😱 I bet the 20 year old stays out of the way a lot because your dh sounds like an ogre. You need to put your dc first, particularly your youngest one who still has a lot of adolescence left. If your dh won’t change or modify his behaviour I would leave. I doubt any of your dc will have a relationship with him in the future.

OP I'm assuming he's always been like this, he sounds immature and stubborn. He can't communicate effectively and his behaviour is effecting your children.

The amount of times you hear "It's like a miracle! I took my child out of the volatile atmosphere of his home and he's so much calmer."

If you think he's capable of change, then by all means have an open conversation.

I think you move forward by giving your dh an ultimatum - start being a decent loving father/husband or fuck off. What a cunt he is. Your poor kids.

This would be a relationship ending for me.

I couldn't tolerate my husband speaking about my child like that and no child should grow up feeling their father hates them. Domestic abuse takes many forms. It doesn't have to be violence, and it sounds like your children already know that nothing they do is right and they're never good enough for him.

Your oldest sounds like a normal 20 year old, better than many in fact, and yet he's spoken about so horribly by his own father. That's incredibly sad.

@username247 he's always been emotionally immature and it's always been hard to discuss anything difficult with him as he becomes sarcastic and doesn't take anything on board.

But in terms of the kids, he was fantastic with them as babies and young kids.
He's very involved and does his share around the house now and when they were younger.
He's a hard worker.

It's as soon as the kids hit about 10 or so that he seems to struggle.
Which coincidentally is around the time they start talking back and aren't always as compliant.

Your DH sounds awful - he holds others up to a standard that no one can reach and he himself doesn’t either

@EverybodyLovesString that's another question for people, is DS20 typical? DH doesn't think so and I'm worried I've given a biased view.
I'm sure if DH wrote his view it would be different but I think I've given all the facts accurately.

he's always been emotionally immature and it's always been hard to discuss anything difficult with him as he becomes sarcastic and doesn't take anything on board.

But in terms of the kids, he was fantastic with them as babies and young kids.

This is contradictory. I don't understand how someone emotionally immature, who can't communicate is a good husband or father.

The only way I assume it worked was that he got his own way all the time. Now they argue back, he can't get his own way and he's a bully.

I would reflect on why you're having to stick up for your own children with their father. Their father should have their backs and you should be working together to parent.

You should be able to communicate and reach a compromise and he shouldn't be constantly criticising them. You're seeing his true colours because you're arguing back.

You have a husband problem, not a son/s problem.
It is sad he does not like 2 of his sons.

Based purely on what you've said, he sounds like he's a great 20 year old - he's working and pays his own bills, he has a relationship that he maintains despite being long-distance, he helps out when asked, he eats family dinner with you and he's otherwise living a quiet life true to his interests. It's quite normal that he mostly emerges to ask for lifts. He isn't doing anything that deserves being spoken about so cruelly by his father.

OP, do you think your DH could be jealous of your boys? I’ve noticed this a lot recently it’s sometimes like they want to score “points” against their sons. Almost like a game of “pick me” over them.
What a tense and stressful environment you have to deal with.
I think your DH needs to grow up and be kinder, but how can this be achieved?

he sounds a tyrant and a bully, he sounds like he bullies you too to make you doubt yourself and back down.. you know how he treats them is wrong, Don't back down in future, stick up for them as much as you need to.

I found your post upsetting to think that a father would be like this to his children. He is a bully and on some level appears to be threatened by other males in the house. What was his relationship with his father like?

His behaviour is wrong and needs to stop and he needs to understand that. He shop be modelling the behaviour he wishes to see from your boys, not treating them in a dismissive and nasty way. It’s horrible to think your younger son thinks his dad hates him.

i only have one son and if his dad behaved like this around/ towards him I would tell him that it needed to stop and if it didn’t then he would need to leave. I’d make it clear that it was non negotiable for my children to feel loved by both their parents unconditionally. If my husband couldn’t do that I’d end my marriage over it. Mothers love their kids more than their husbands and no way would I allow a father to affect their sense of self esteem or MH by making shitty comments.

Your boys sound perfectly ‘normal’ good kids. All teens stay in their bedroom, don’t offer to do chores or join in family chat. He has no idea how lucky he is - just look how many threads there are about out of control teens- and needs to get a sense of perspective. He should appreciate what a great job the two of you have done in bringing them up and be proud of them.

Is he able to articulate why he is parenting so differently now to when they were younger?

This sounds really hard OP.

Would your dh consider counselling/a parenting course?

I agree with hideawayforever

"he sounds a tyrant and a bully, he sounds like he bullies you too to make you doubt yourself and back down.. you know how he treats them is wrong, Don't back down in future, stick up for them as much as you need to."

I disagree with pp's. No doubt Dh does not communicate well, but you don't present a united front of parenting together, you undermine him. You are soft, he is trying to install some discipline, but you won't let that happen. Do they do jobs and tasks without being asked? Bet not.

It's much easier parenting small children, you're in charge and they pretty much do as they're told! Parenting teens is much more of a negotiation and letting go of control as they make their own choices (and mistakes!) It sounds like your DH is stuck in his old parenting ways and taking out his frustration on you and your teens when they don't behave as he thinks they should. It can't be much fun living with a parent who doesn't like them, that's really sad for your sons 😢 I think I would have to speak to DH and tell him that he is making everyone in the house miserable. He needs to change if he wants to have any sort of relationship with his kids when they're adults.

Presenting a unified front is b

Oh FFS fingers! Presenting a unified front is bollocks and an excuse for letting a dominant man have his own way. If their father is wrong and being an asshole it is absolutely right that the mother challenges that and doesn't support him.

Your DH sounds like he sees your DS's as his rivals for some reason. Maybe some therapy sessions to work through his feelings would help?

I actually agree we don't always present a united front and that needs to change and probably is part of the issue.

We're having some issues with DS13 and tech use at the moment and if DH says it needs to go down because of DS attitude I will support that every time.
But when he gets aggressive and starts escalating his own behaviour I step in and that's where the problem starts.

I have pointed out that he expects DS13 (again, suspected ADHD/autism) to regulate his emotions when DH42 can't even do that himself, but that's different apparently.

Does your DH present a unified front with you, though? Or does a "unified front" mean you're expected to keep quiet while he picks fights with children?

"lazy, disgusting and disrespectful" are appalling words to use to describe anyone, let alone your own child. Abuse isn't only physical - this is emotional abuse.

My sister-in-law's father (my partner's stepfather) is like this and he absolutely shattered her self-esteem growing up and she developed PTSD from the constant belittling, criticism and always living in fear of the next explosion. This has also caused problems in her relationship with her mum, who stayed with this man.

Your sons are suffering because of your husband, you need to protect them - either force his hand to get help (issue an ultimatum that you will leave otherwise) or get out.

My friend’s DH started being unbearable to live with and always picking fights with the teens. She gave him an ultimatum- sort yourself out or get out because I’m not prepared to live in a miserable home or force the kids to. He saw how serious she was and sorted himself out. That was 10 years ago and things are still going well.

@Butterthetoast his defence is that he doesn't say it to the kids, just to me.
But he has in the past said things like that to the them and I HATE him saying it to me, of course I'm going to get protective when someone is talking about my kids in that way, no matter who you are.

Unbelievably I'm sure but he does have good qualities and I'd prefer to work this out but he seems unwilling (or maybe unable) to change his ways.
I'll suggest counselling, but from past experience he'll say all the right things in there and ignore any helpful suggestions once home.